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State Rep. and Speaker Steve Haugaard (R-Sioux Falls, SD) Discusses His Personal Battle With Coronavirus.

KEILAR: The South Dakota House speaker describes his battle with coronavirus at the, quote, "most devastating stuff I have ever had." Republican Steve Haugaard is at least the second South Dakota state legislator to be diagnosed with COVID-19 since the start of the pandemic. He is one of the more than 33,000 cases in his state of South Dakota. And as you can see, the numbers there skyrocketed in the last month. Steve Haugaard is with us now to talk about this. Speaker, thank you so much for joining us. I know this has been quite the ordeal for you. You have spent the last two weeks dealing with a severe case of coronavirus. Tell us how you are feeling now.</s>REP. STEVE HAUGAARD (R-SD): Well, I'm thankful to be on the mend. I've been fever-free for three or four days now. And just trying to gain some strength back. So it was about a week and a half of not eating and just enduring a fever that seemed to range anywhere from 100 to 105. So -- took its toll, but thankful to be on this side of it.</s>KEILAR: And what took you to the hospital twice?</s>HAUGAARD: Well, both times were just such exhaustion and a need for fluids. So went in a couple of times and got some I.V. fluids, and got back on track a bit. And then the fever just ran its course. It takes so many days for the virus to run its course. And once that finally happened and I was able to get back to the point where food was an option.</s>KEILAR: Where food was an option so you could try to gain some of that weight back you lost. And tell us, what were you doing around the time that you would have contracted the virus? Do you have any idea where you might have gotten it?</s>HAUGAARD: No. I have a law practice and also there's been a number of events that have gone on in the past month. So I've been around dozens and hundreds of people in the past few weeks. So it's pretty hard to identify where it would have originated. The research that I did early on, back in the spring, just to make myself aware of what this virus was all about, seemed to suggest that some DNAs are more is susceptible to it. And then I recently read a research study that suggested that certain blood types are more vulnerable to it. And my blood type is one of those. So type "A" and -- type "A," type "B." Type "AB." And apparently type "O" is not quite as vulnerable. But I'm sure there are exceptions to that, too. So it just seems that it has just about zero impact on most people and has a dramatic impact on others.</s>KEILAR: Yes. That is certainly something researchers are looking into. They're seeing some early indications showing that that requires more study as they try to draw conclusions about that. There's a state representative, you're aware of, Bob Glanzer, who died from the coronavirus. Your mayor there in Sioux Falls is saying, quote, "Wear a dang mask," as he tries to get through to people that they should be wearing a mask. Do you think that South Dakotans are getting the message about what they need to do to stay safe?</s>HAUGAARD: I think, nationwide, people have the understanding of what they need to do. It's just a matter of trying to apply that in all the circumstances. Certainly, there's good compliance with those stores that require masks. And even during our special session a couple weeks ago, there was good compliance at that time as well. So, you know, we try to be as careful as possible. But it's a virus. It's just out there. It's microscopic. So it's impossible to make sure that you've covered all your bases. But I'm thankful for the experience. I'm thankful to be on this side of it. So -- I think that, going forward, we need to make some better plans for what our session's going to look like in January, February. We'll be doing that in the next couple of weeks.</s>KEILAR: There was an estimated half a million people who attended the 10-day Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, the famous motorcycle rally in August, without restrictions. The was a decision that Kristi Noem, your governor, decided to proceed with. In retrospect, do you think that was a mistake?</s>HAUGAARD: No. I think you've got to open up the society again. When I looked at the numbers early on, this -- you know, back in -- I think it was the time it frame of March, April of this year compared to March, April of last year, the number of mental illness calls in our county went up 130 percent. And the number of simple assaults, ag assaults went up from 35 percent to 65 percent. The number of disorderly conducts went up 525 percent. So there are a lot of balancing factors that you have to put into this equation. You just can't lock down society. And probably something we might have made a mistake along the way with was locking down the schools as much as we have, especially since the vulnerability of children is pretty low. So there are things in hindsight that we probably should have done differently. As far as locking things down, I don't think we should. As far as exercising reasonable protocols for those that are vulnerable, I think that's very reasonable. And, again, I think more information the better as far as --</s>KEILAR: And -- Speaker, on --</s>HAUGAARD: -- blood types -- yes?</s>KEILAR: Speaker, I think when you say -- and I understand what you're saying. I know there are a lot of factors to weigh. And what we've heard from a lot of Americans is they're willing to accept some risk but not unmitigated risk. Back to the issue of the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, your state does not have a mask mandate. There was not mask-wearing, writ large, at Sturgis. It's been traced to spreading. So I hear what you're saying about you can't lock everything down. There are people who are certainly having mental health issues. But isn't there a way to do this in a safer way so that you don't have to totally shut down. But you can still preserve the lives of people, you know, like your Republican colleague, like people who have suffered cases coming out of Sturgis?</s>HAUGAARD: Well, it's, to me, pretty hard to identify with any great degree of certainty the spread of that particular virus through the Sturgis rally. I know I saw estimates of tens of thousands of people and I don't know that you could tie all that together. All of those people interact with hundreds of people along the way to Sturgis. And as they got home, they interacted with others at home. So I don't think those are very reliable stats. But it's certainly reasonable to tell people what their options are and give them those options. Let them exercise those choices as responsibly as possible.</s>KEILAR: Speaker, I appreciate you joining us. Speaker Steve Haugaard, thank you.</s>HAUGAARD: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Dr. Anthony Fauci responding to the president's attacks by quoting the "Godfather." Plus, the race to 270. With two weeks left until the election, we're going to look at the best paths for both Joe Biden and President Trump.

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Steven Mnuchin Continue Meeting to Discuss COVID Relief Bill

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are you nervous at all, coming out, knowing that you're seeing record numbers here in Wisconsin and with a positivity rate over 20 percent?</s>EDUARDO DE LA TORRE, WISCONSIN VOTER: A little bit. Because in the last election, I know they reduced the polling places down to five in the city, and it did create long lines. But just that situation kind of makes you think ahead and make a plan to vote So my plan was just to do it on the first day that I could and bright and early, there's not many people here right now so it's the best time to do it.</s>JIMENEZ: Of course. Well thank you, Eduardo. Be safe, thank you for taking the time. And of course, Jim and Poppy, again, people here in Wisconsin, walking that line. Maybe more so than anywhere else in the country: significantly affected by the pandemic, but also knowing that Wisconsin could play a significant role in this election as well.</s>POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: For sure it will. Omar, thanks for being there, thank you for that reporting.</s>JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, there are just hours left until House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's self-imposed deadline to reach a stimulus deal with the White House before the election, a package that would bring economic relief to millions of Americans before they vote.</s>HARLOW: And the president this morning is again saying he wants a very big -- bigger stimulus deal than what the Democrats want. But remember, I mean, he, like, cancelled this whole thing a week ago.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill with exactly where things stand. I think it is so tragic, A, that nothing has gotten done but B, that you know, it's back and forth. The president cancels it, well then I want a bigger deal. I mean, what is it?</s>MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And the Republicans are just simply not on the same page about what exactly should be included in this next round of stimulus. The Senate Republicans, in fact, are moving forward to bring up a bill that the Democrats have already blocked, $500 billions' worth of stimulus provisions including funding for schools, money for unemployment insurance -- not as much as the Democrats want. Democrats are expected to block that again. And that $500 billion is nowhere near what Pelosi and Steven Mnuchin are talking about right now. They're talking about a plan around the $2 trillion range at the moment. And even though the administration, the House Democrats appear to be closer on the price tag, there are just a whole score of policy issues that continue to divide the two parties, whether it's funding for schools, those jobless benefits, the level they should be extended by, the amount of money that should be given for the elections in addition to COVID testing and tracing, that has been a big sticking point for days, how that money would be divided. As well as funding for state and local governments, which has been a major sticking point for weeks and weeks. The two sides have gotten a little closer, but there are still significant divisions. Pelosi wants to see if they can get a deal by the end of the day today because of the legislative process: it will take time to get through the House, to get to the Senate. And will the Senate even take up a deal that could be reached in this price range? Mitch McConnell has not committed to that yet. And Senate Republicans I talked to yesterday, Poppy and Jim, made very clear they were unlikely to get behind anything that big. So a lot of skepticism on the Hill that any deal can be reached that could pass before the election -- guys.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, the gaps here are not just between Republicans and Democrats or the Hill and the president, but within the parties and among that -- the Republican Party. Manu Raju, thanks very much. Fourteen days, as we've said, before Election Day -- 14 days -- the U.S. charges six Russian intelligence officers with major cyber- attacks against this country. Did Congress, did the Trump administration fail to protect our democracy with all we experienced in 2016? I'll be speaking with a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who knows a lot about this, next.

Department of Justice Sues Google; Interview with Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT).

HARLOW: Welcome back. So the Trump administration, the Department of Justice is suing Google today in what is the largest anti-trust case against a tech company in more than 20 years. Our tech reporter Brian Fung has been following this, he's on the story this morning. I mean, this is the biggest, really, since Microsoft, right? What is the DOJ alleging here?</s>BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yes, it's the biggest anti-trust case against a tech company in at least a generation here. What the DOJ is alleging is that Google controls 80 percent of the search market in the United States, and it's using its power to hurt rivals and damage competition. Now, DOJ's deputy attorney general, Jeffrey Rosen, said nothing is off the table in terms of what types of remedies the DOJ is seeking here, which could include a break-up of Google. And Google, for its part, says -- and let me just read you a quick statement here that they just put out -- that "Today's lawsuit by the Department of Justice is deeply flawed. People use Google because they choose to, not because they're forced to or because they can't find alternatives. We will have a full statement this morning." Now obviously, this litigation comes days before a pivotal election in which tech companies including Google have been criticized for their role in, you know, affecting democracy. And this case could, you know, have dramatic implications not just for Google but also for the rest of the tech industry and the economy at large and with downstream effects for, you know, our elections.</s>HARLOW: Brian, can I ask you -- I interviewed Google's CEO Sundar Pichai a little over a year ago, and asked him about reporting that this case may be coming. And his answer to me essentially was, we know there's scrutiny, we welcome the scrutiny. They're getting the scrutiny now. My question is, can they really force Google to break up? I mean, wouldn't that take many acts of Congress?</s>FUNG: Well, remember that Congress doesn't have the power to break up Google, only the courts do through antitrust law --</s>HARLOW: OK, OK.</s>FUNG: -- but remember, this is going to be a years-long process where the Justice Department will engage in fact-finding and documentary evidence-gathering for this court proceeding, and it could theoretically lead to a breakup of Google.</s>HARLOW: OK, Brian, thank you for the reporting -- Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: Fourteen days to Election Day, millions of Americans have already voted. And my next guest says that Russia is right now actively trying to help President Trump win and doing it more so than in 2016. With me now, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, who serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Murphy, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.</s>SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Good morning.</s>SCIUTTO: So first of all, you spoke earlier this month about reports of "a multi-layer Russian effort to help Trump in 2020, bigger than what they did in 2016" -- I'm quoting you there from Twitter. How exactly?</s>MURPHY: Well, let me just first be clear that it's not an allegation being made by me or any other partisan that Russia is attempting to manipulate this election on behalf of President Trump, that is the assessment of the intelligence community, that is the DNI's assessment, the</s>SCIUTTO: That's a significant charge. And I do know -- and it is a fact -- that Trump's own Treasury Department has designated a person, a Ukrainian politician, who Giuliani has met with and contacted more than once, Andriy Derkach, they -- the Treasury Department -- has described him as a Russian agent for over a decade. But are you saying, in effect, that Giuliani is cooperating with Russian disinformation here?</s>MURPHY: Well, listen, I certainly can't, you know, say whether Giuliani knows that he has been put in the position of spreading Russian misinformation except that Derkach has been labeled a Russian agent, right? It has been fully disclosed that he is on the payroll of the Russian government. And as recently as a few days ago, Rudy Giuliani is quoted as saying he's not sure if that's true, He said it's 50-50, whether Derkach is a Russian agent. No, no, no: It's not 50-50, it's 100 percent. Our own intelligence agencies have said it, our Treasury Department has sanctioned him. And so the fact that Rudy Giuliani is still providing excuses to keep Derkach and the Russian FSB as a conduit to him of information that can harm President (ph) Biden, I think should make everybody a little bit suspicious about his motives.</s>SCIUTTO: OK. I want to talk about recently published e-mails purporting to document business dealings of Hunter Biden. And there are questions about this. The FBI, we know, is investigating whether they are or are not tied to Russian disinformation. I want to ask you directly, you have called these e-mails part of, quote, "a Kremlin- constructed anti-Biden propaganda campaign." Have you seen intelligence that backs that assessment?</s>MURPHY: So the very fact that these e-mails come into the public sphere from Rudy Giuliani, the fact that Andriy Derkach seems to know more about these e-mails than almost anybody else, tells you where they're coming from. I mean, at some point you sort of have to believe what you see, which is that --</s>SCIUTTO: Right.</s>MURPHY: -- when individuals who are either identified Russian agents or are conspiring with Russian agents, are providing the information upon which mainstream media are reporting, you have to understand what the deal is here. And again, I'm not alone here. Fifty high-level intelligence agents, people who have worked in the intelligence agencies, came out and said this is most likely Russian propaganda.</s>SCIUTTO: OK. There's the disinformation aspect of Russian interference, both in 2016, 2018 and 2020. There is the greater fear of Russian interference with actual voting systems. And in 2016, we knew that there were probing attacks into voter registration systems for instance, but -- and Obama warned Putin directly about this, saying don't mess with the voting systems, and it appears Russia did not. In 2020, how concerned are you, how concerned is the intelligence community that Russia will take that next step and interfere with actual voting systems, registration, et cetera?</s>MURPHY: I believe that we are going to have a free and fair election. I don't believe that any American citizen should be worried about whether or not their name is going to show up on a voter list on Election Day, or whether their vote is going to be counted. And that's in part because we have spent significant money from the federal government and through states to beef up protections of our voter lists and of our voting systems. So we certainly have less evidence that Russia is trying to manipulate the voting systems than we do that they're trying to manipulate the media narrative. And so I have pretty good confidence that we're going to be able to rebuff any attempts that Russia does make to try to compromise our voting mechanics.</s>SCIUTTO: I want to ask you a final question just about the vote, because there's a continuing legal battle under way about what is, in effect, voter access, right? How long absentee ballots will be counted, you know, do they have to be postmarked before Election Day, a whole host of things -- signature confirmation, witnesses, et cetera. And a consistent dynamic of this is that Republican Party in states is for greater restrictions, and Democrats are voting -- are pushing, rather -- for broader access here. Why is that, in your view?</s>MURPHY: Well, I think Donald Trump and his acolytes know that if everybody votes, Donald Trump loses. And Republicans lose the Senate. It's pretty extraordinary, Jim, when I came to the Senate not long ago, about, you know, eight years ago, Republicans and Democrats were for the Voting Rights Act. We all disagreed on plenty of stuff, but we agreed that we should help people vote. It is pretty amazing that voting has become a partisan issue, that Democrats want people to vote and Republicans don't want people to vote. But that is what is playing out in dozens of courts all across the country. And the explanation is simple: If everybody in this country has the ability to vote, Donald Trump's not going to be the president for (ph) four years. But if the president is successful in keeping people from voting -- especially those people who may be antithetical to his candidacy -- then maybe he has a shot.</s>SCIUTTO: Senator Chris Murphy, thanks for joining us this morning.</s>MURPHY: Thanks.</s>HARLOW: All right, well ahead for us, China is rolling out an experimental vaccine in terms of trials, and people are lining up to get it. We're going to take you there for a live report, ahead.

Trump Trashes Dr. Fauci as Coronavirus Cases Spike across U.S.; Trump's Closing Strategy, Downplay Surging Virus, Slam Fauci

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: 14 days to the election. A good Tuesday morning to you, I'm Jim Sciutto.</s>POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We are almost there, I'm Poppy Harlow. We're glad you're with us this morning. Well, very sad news as the COVID surge continues. New coronavirus cases and hospitalizations are way up across the country. More than 220,000 Americans have lost their lives as of this morning to this pandemic, with just two weeks until Election Day. The president's closing strategy, downplay this virus, and he seems more interested in fighting the guy giving us facts. This morning, Dr. Fauci responds to the president's recent attacks.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Many, many states that had been doing reasonably well are now showing upticks. That's what we should be concentrating on. All that other is a distraction. It's like The Godfather, nothing personal, strictly business, as far as I'm concerned. I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country. That's all I want to do.</s>SCIUTTO: Dr. Fauci not taking the bait there. It comes as he and other top health officials warn of a long road ahead that, sadly, the darkest days in the pandemic are ahead of us still. President Trump denying, however, those facts this morning on Fox.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, we are living with it and we're having the vaccines coming out very soon. With or without the vaccines we're rounding the turn. We understand the disease. No, there will be no shutdowns. Well, we have to open up and we live with it and we open up our schools.</s>SCIUTTO: let's go to CNN's John Harwood for more on the president's comment this morning and his continuing, really, approach to the worsening outbreak.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jim, what we've got is a situation where coronavirus is the top issue in the election. President Trump has given up trying to fight it. And he's trying to justify his failure to control the virus so far. He's doing that in two ways. One is embracing the advice of Scott Atlas, who is not an infectious disease specialist, but who is arguing under one term or the other that we should have a herd immunity strategy. He's also trying to discredit Dr. Anthony Fauci, who leads the health community that thinks the administration is not being aggressive enough. It's a tricky thing to do because polls show the American public believes Fauci more than Trump, as the Trump campaign is recognized by including Fauci in their campaign ad. So President Trump has to discredit him in a gently way as he did this morning.</s>TRUMP: He's a nice guy. The only thing I have to say is he is a little bit sometimes not a team player. But he is a Democrat. And I think he is just fine.</s>HARWOOD: Now, of course, Dr. Anthony Fauci is not a partisan figure. He served presidents of both parties, beginning with Ronald Reagan. And a further problem for the president comes in the The New York Times/Siena poll out this morning, which shows that 37 percent of the American people agree with the president that the worst is behind us, but 51 percent, a majority of Americans say the worst is ahead of us in this pandemic. That very closely resembles Joe Biden's advantage over President Trump in the national polling.</s>HARLOW: Yes, troubling. Thank you, John, very much. Our Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is with us. Good morning, Elizabeth. So, in addition to the spike in cases, these record hospitalizations in 14 states, are happening.</s>ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Let's take a look at the map that shows us those 14 states, Poppy. These are -- again, this is so important to remember. It's not just the cases, it's the hospitalizations that we also want to focus on. So, record hospitalizations in these states. And if you look nationwide, you can see what we're unfortunately headed back up to that very high hospitalization rate that we had in July. That is not the direction we want to be going on, especially since we're headed towards winter when more people will be indoors so the virus can spread more easily. Let's look in particular at some of those states that are experiencing those record hospitalizations. Across the country, it's more than 37,000 reported yesterday. Ohio, had more than 1,100 in their state. And you can see Oklahoma, Kentucky, Montana, Nebraska are following. And I think, you know, one of the things to remember here is that the United States is huge. So, you know, it started with a horrible situation in New York and it sort of moved around the country and you can see that we're really looking at large areas of the Midwest that are experiencing these highs now. Poppy, Jim?</s>SCIUTTO: All right. Folks waiting for a vaccine, of course. The head of the NIH was on NPR this morning, said very unlikely a vaccine authorized before Election Day or even late November. What are the experts saying about the most likely timing of at least one approved vaccine?</s>COHEN: Well, there are two that are actually kind of neck and neck, Pfizer and Moderna, with Pfizer being a little but further ahead. In fact, the head of their company telling The Wall Street Journal that they think -- or actually Moderna is saying that they think that they could have some data in December. Let's look at where the four trials are at. So, Pfizer says that they could possibly have data that they could use to go to the FDA to get an authorization in late November. But I want to emphasize here, and I can't emphasize this enough, they say they possibly could have positive data. They're not sure that data is going to look good. They might have data, but the data might look terrible. Hopefully, it will look good. So this is a possible. That's why we put that word there. Moderna, same situation, they're a little bit behind them. And they think that they could have data in December, but remember that data might not be good, it might not show that it works. We're hoping it works that it works. AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson, those trials are on pause while they look at participants who become ill to see what's going on. AstraZeneca has had two participants become ill, Johnson & Johnson has had one. So, as you can see, half of the trials are on pause but half of the trials think they might have some data that they could show to the FDA November or December, emphasis on might.</s>SCIUTTO: Go it. Well, we know you'll bring it to us once we get that data. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much. Joining us now, Dr. Carlos del Rio, Executive Associate Dean at Emory University Medical School. Dr. del Rio, always good to have you on.</s>DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Great to be with you, Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: We had Dr. Paul. You heard Elizabeth's update on when data would come on. We had Dr. Paul Offit on in the last hour, because I asked him a big picture question. Okay. So, approval coming in the next couple months, possibly, probably. How about broad availability of this? He said not until the middle to the end of next year that all of us and folks watching can be likely to get one. Do you agree with that or might it come earlier?</s>DEL RIO: Yes, Dr. Offit is absolutely right. I mean, I think if we have a vaccine, and let's assume everything goes well and we get a vaccine by December, January, the first rolls of the vaccine -- the first roll out is going to be to people, to first responders, to people at highest risk, elderly individuals. Then there's going to be a tiered approach and get into different phases. And the last phase, getting it to everybody is probably not going to be until, I would say, the second to third quarter of next year. Now, we've got to remember, the two vaccines that Elizabeth was talking about, the Moderna and the Pfizer vaccine, and I will say that I'm an investigator on the Moderna vaccine, they are vaccines that need two doses and they are vaccines that need to be refrigerated at minus 70. So these are not the typical you're going to go to Walgreens or CVS to get. You're really going to have very specific sites that are going to be administering this vaccine. And vaccinating millions of millions Americas is going to be a major effort. We're talking about a significant public health effort.</s>HARLOW: What about to the point about a vaccine, actually application and distribution? A bunch of states are waving their hands here saying we don't have the funds yet to figure out an equitable distribution plan for the vaccine once we get it, right? Because keeping it at negative 70 degrees, that's not easy. That's not like your home refrigerator or any doctor's office, right. So, I mean, how big of a crisis is that potentially?</s>DEL RIO: Absolutely, Poppy. That's a major issue, because states are submitting their plans right now about what to do. The CDC requested those plans, and I think that's right, to then allocate the resources because you're going to have to figure out almost like having vaccination points in cities and counties and municipalities that you can then tell people to go to. And I suspect in order to avoid crowding, you're probably going to have to make an appointment, you're probably going to have -- it's just not -- you're not going to be able to just walk up and get a vaccine, the amount of vaccine necessary at those places, how much they can store in the refrigerators. As I said, setting the infrastructure for minus 70 is nothing cheap. Those refrigerators run in the order for $5,000 to $6,000 a piece.</s>SCIUTTO: Goodness. I mean, the challenge is just enormous there. Let me ask you this, because a growing problem is reluctance to take this vaccine, at least based on the public polling down to around 50 percent in CNN's measure of this. People have been bombarded with so much disinformation about the vaccine, questions about political influence, et cetera. What percentage of the country needs to take it, be confident enough to take it and have access to it to successfully put this virus under control?</s>DEL RIO: Well, we need to do sort of a back of the envelope calculation. It depends on the efficacy of the vaccine. I think we're all pretty sure that this vaccine is not going to be like a measles vaccine, a vaccine that has 90-plus, 100 percent efficacy. This is going to be a vaccine more with about 40 to 50, let's say 50 to 60 percent efficacy. So if you need to vaccinate, you need to make sure 60 percent of the country are immunized with a vaccine that has 60 percent efficacy, you probably are going to have to vaccinate close to 80, 90 percent of the country. So it's going to be a significant</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: Yes, for sure. And, by the way, our kids aren't going to have a vaccine for long after we have a vaccine. Dr. del Rio, great to have you, as always. Thank you.</s>DEL RIO: Take care. Have a good day.</s>HARLOW: You too. The president clearly taking a page out of his 2016 playbook in these final two weeks, hitting the trail and his opponents hard. Will it work this time around?</s>SCIUTTO: We're also following breaking news this hour. The Department of Justice is now suing Google, accusing the tech giant of stifling competition.

U.S. Supreme Court Allows Pennsylvania to Count Late-Arriving Ballots.

HARLOW: The U.S. Supreme Court has dealt the Republicans a major blow in their fight against mail-in voting. On Monday, the high court rejected the GOP's attempts to require mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania to all be received by election night, to be counted. Instead, ballots will be counted if they're received within three days of November 3rd.</s>SCIUTTO: Notably, Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the liberal justices to make it a 4-4 deadlock. That means the lower court's ruling holds. Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, two critical swing states, are not allowed to begin processing absentee ballots until Election Day. Wisconsin kicks off in-person early voting today amid a record number of COVID-19 cases there. And they, of course, got a case up about how long after Election Day those ballots can be received and counted.</s>HARLOW: That's right. Our Correspondent, Omar Jimenez, joins us in Milwaukee this morning. Good morning, Omar. The city has taken several steps to try to keep their polls safe in this pandemic.</s>OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim and Poppy. People here in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee, in particular, having to walk that that COVID precaution balance and that duty of being an American citizen, of voting, maybe more than anywhere else in the country. There's a line here before the doors even opened up earlier this first day on this first day of early voting. But as you talk to the people who decided to, again, show up in person, they wanted to make sure their voices were heard. As one voter told me, they felt the mail system was iffy. Now, one of the voters that we've been speaking to today, his name is Eduardo De La Torre, he is getting ready to go vote. Tell me about why you decided you wanted to come out and do this in person on day one here in Wisconsin.</s>EDUARDO DE LA TORRE, WISCONSIN VOTER: I just wanted to get it out of the way and kind of avoid the lines of in-person voting, and like you mentioned, the -- a lot of what the Trump administration is doing with the mail system is creating uncertainty for people like myself, who would otherwise vote by mail. So it's the first day, I'm here right now and early and I'm ready to get it done.</s>JIMENEZ: Had you voted by mail in the past?</s>DE LA TORRE: I had not. But, obviously, I had registered to vote by mail in the last election and I never received a ballot. So that kind of played into my thinking of voting early in person and getting it out of the way.</s>JIMENEZ: And we both got masks on here, as has been mandated here in the state. Were you nervous at all coming out knowing that you're seeing record numbers here in Wisconsin and with a positivity rate over 20 percent?

Trump Trashes Dr. Fauci as Coronavirus Cases Spike Across the U.S.; Presidential Debate Commission Says They're Going to have the Microphones of Trump and Biden Muted During Parts of the Final Debate

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.</s>JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto. Fourteen days, two weeks out from election day, and as the country battles a deadly pandemic, and let's be frank, many of you are already voting. The president trashes the nation's top infectious disease expert again. And this morning Dr. Fauci, well, he responds.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Many, many states that had been doing reasonably well and now showing upticks, that's what we should be concentrating on. All that other stuff is a distraction. It's like in "The Godfather," nothing personal, strictly business, as far as I'm concerned. You know? I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country. That's all I want to do.</s>HARLOW: Like "The Godfather." Well, here are the facts. Hospitalizations are sadly hitting record highs. Record highs in this entire pandemic in at least 14 states. Cases are surging. More than 220,000 Americans have died from COVID-19, and health officials are warning things could get a lot worse. Still, moments ago, the president said this.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we are living with it and we're having the vaccines coming out very soon. With or without the vaccines, we're rounding the turn. We understand the disease. No, there will be no shutdowns. Well, we have to open up. And we live with it and we open up our schools.</s>HARLOW: Let's go to our John Harwood to kick us off this morning. John joins us outside the White House. What else did we hear from the president this morning?</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, what we've got is a president who has given up on fighting the coronavirus outright and he is now trying to cast that as a virtue. Hence, you get the embrace of Scott Atlas, who has been pushing under one name or another a strategy of herd immunity to allow more Americans to get the virus and get through it that way as opposed to herd immunity developed through a vaccine. It also requires discrediting Anthony Fauci, who, of course, has more credibility than the president does. He is being used in the president's own campaign ads. So what that means is when the president discredits him, he's got to do it gently as he did in this comment to FOX.</s>TRUMP: He is a nice guy. The only thing I say is he is a little bit sometimes not a team player, but he is a Democrat and I think that he's just fine.</s>HARWOOD: To be clear, Anthony Fauci is not a partisan. He has served for decades under presidents of both parties including or beginning with Ronald Reagan, but this is how the president is trying to make himself feel better as he gets toward the end of the campaign. He is trailing. Most Americans don't trust his approach to the coronavirus, but he is pushing a message that he's been right. He's going in front of mask-less crowds where they affirm his view that he's been right, laugh along at his jokes about Anthony Fauci, and that's how he's going to close his campaign whether it helps him win the election or not.</s>HARLOW: Yes. It looks like the strategy here in the final 14 days. John, thanks for the reporting at the White House this morning. Well, 31 states are seeing an increase in new cases of COVID just from a week ago, over that same period. As we'd mentioned, 14 states, the ones you see in red there, have record hospitalizations.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. It means folks get really sick. That includes Kansas where CNN has just learned that all 62 residents of one nursing home have now been infected. Ten residents have already died. CNN's Martin Savidge is in Salt Lake City, Utah, a state that is also seeing a huge spike in cases. And I wonder there, Martin, the story we hear, of course, is exhaustion with the various measures needed to keep this in check. Is that what you're seeing on the ground there?</s>MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. When you talk to health officials here as to what they think is driving the outbreak here in Utah, they'll point to two things. One, return to school. The other thing is they say that there's a general fatigue on the part of many in the public who've just gotten tired of following the safety procedures that we all know makes a big difference in all of this. You know, in Utah here, they are really, really struggling. This hospital here and many of the other hospitals in this state right now are frantically trying to find more ICU rooms. They're trying to make the staff work longer and harder hours because they know, they know what is coming. And as you point out, let's just take a look at some of the national numbers here. 58,000 new cases of coronavirus reported on Monday. Monday is usually a down day for reporting cases. That number is quite shocking to see. 31 states seeing a rise, as you pointed out. Midwestern states, of course, seem to be the ones that are struggling the most at the moment, but we know that that picture is constantly shifting. 14 states that are seeing hospitalization peaks. They're seeing record levels of hospitalization due to coronavirus here in Utah right now. And it's a problem because what they know is that their best hospitals are in the city areas, but they're seeing many cases in rural areas. So it means that you're not only having the high populations of people who get sick in the city, but it's being supplemented with those that are coming in from the rural areas as well. A thousand plus new cases reported every day in this state for the past six days, and we've already pointed out the positivity rate in this state hovering around 15 percent, and that's a leading indicator. In other words if you know that you've got that high amount of positives in the society, pretty much in about two weeks you're going to see them flooding here. Well, most of the ICUs are already at peak performance and they're now starting to open up in the southern part of the state, what they call a kind of surge ICU, these are the tents in the parking lots. And then they're also preparing for perhaps having to open one up here, maybe more. They know the worst is yet to come. And then you pointed out already in Kansas the horrible story of 10 people who have died and 62 people, all of the residents of that private nursing home facility became infected with COVID-19. It is not over and we are not turning any -- coming around any bends on this one, that's for sure.</s>HARLOW: No.</s>SAVIDGE: Jim and Poppy.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes, the facts are stubborn and in this case they're disturbing. Martin Savidge, thanks very much. Joining us now, Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital, Philadelphia. He's also a member of the FDA's Vaccine and Related Products Advisory Committee. Dr. Offit, good to have you on. I want to dive right into your expertise on vaccines. This morning on NPR, the NIH director said very unlikely a COVID-19 vaccine approved by late November. That said, we are moving in that direction. Dr. Fauci and others have said as soon as the end of this year. For folks at home, what does that mean about when a vaccine will become widely available in this country so that Poppy and I, our relatives, et cetera, can get one?</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER AT CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, widely available I would say, you know, the middle to end of next year. I think that the Food and Drug Administration rightly decided to make sure that we had at least two months of clear safety data after the last dose of any vaccine. That drove the vaccine timeline more to the end of this year. And so then, you know, the FDA and Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices at the CDC will look at these data I think at end of this year, and then early next year you'll start to see these vaccines rolling out to the highest risk groups first. And then by the middle of next year, the end of next year hopefully we'll be getting it more to the general public.</s>HARLOW: Dr. Offit, you are not only a specialist on this stuff, you actually sit on the committee, the FDA advisory committee, that any approved vaccine is going to have to go through. That's a big responsibility and it's one that's in the spotlight for sure right now. As I understand it, you guys are meeting, is it starting this week, October 22nd or shortly thereafter? What are you going to do?</s>OFFIT: It's the 22nd.</s>HARLOW: OK. So what -- so what happens?</s>OFFIT: Well, right now we're not going to be looking at any specific data for any vaccine. To my knowledge that's not going to be presented to us. What we're going to talk about are sort of our general beliefs about what we want to see from these vaccines -- with these vaccines in terms of safety, in terms of efficacy, how robust the data do we want to see before we're willing really to approve its use for the public.</s>SCIUTTO: Dr. Offit, I want to go big picture. I don't want to amplify the president's criticisms of Dr. Fauci any further. I want to focus on the public health effect of this because this is part of a pattern. You know, months, weeks, weeks and months long of the president and other senior administration officials contradicting the best experts and the best science on this. What is the health damage of that? And have we seen it already? And are we seeing it now as cases surge around the country, of that contradictory messaging?</s>OFFIT: Right. Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or March of next year, we are heading into the worst part of this pandemic for this country. One state, one of the models suggested that probably about 80,000 lives would be saved if people -- 95 percent of the population wore masks, social distanced, washed their hands. That's the message. That's the only tool we have right now, are these hygienic measures. And you have on the one hand somebody like Dr. Fauci who is doing everything he can to protect the American public by getting that message out there. And on the other hand you have President Trump who's basically just saying, enter my cult of denialism. Just let's ignore this. Let's embrace it. Let's live with it. I mean, which is actually inexplicable. I mean, he -- this, in many ways, I really think that this was an enormous opportunity for President Trump. I mean, you know, you look to your leaders during times of crisis. This is a major crisis. We wanted leadership. We needed leadership. And instead, what we get is sort of magical thinking, you know, it's all going to go away if we use hydroxychloroquine or convalescent plasma, or bleach or, you know, UV light. You've got magical thinking, and instead of the hard thinking that you need to get through this, which he could have done. He could have been a dramatic leader</s>HARLOW: Don't waste a crisis, right? What do you do when you're handed a crisis and how do you lead through it? I mean, for sure there was major opportunity there to help lead in that way. You know, you look at New Mexico, a state I hadn't heard a lot about or read a lot about in this crisis, and all of a sudden the governor there is saying that on Saturday they saw a 101 percent increase in COVID cases, and that if it continues like this they won't have enough health care or hospital capacity for every New Mexican who needs care. And couple that with some major concern about elderly folks. You have Senator Maggie Hassan saying she doesn't think enough older people are being tested in these trials.</s>OFFIT: You know, this is hard. I mean, in defense of the administration, it's hard. We have a large country, a large, diverse country that has a variety of different sort of settings, rural, suburban, urban. It's hard to do testing and contact tracing, it is. I mean, South Korea was great at this. They got control of this virus doing this, but at the very least assume everyone you come in contact with is asymptomatically infected and contagious. Assume that and then wear a mask and social distance. You can at least do that. And to some extent we can crawl back into work and we can crawl back into schools, we can do that. But to deny it, to deny that this is a critical part of controlling this, these hygienic measures, is just utterly irresponsible. I mean, there are lives that are going to be lost and we'll see the statistics. We'll see 50,000, 80,000, 100,000, and we're numbed by those statistics. But those are people, and very well people that, you know, you could know coming up in these next few months. It's just really utterly irresponsible.</s>HARLOW: Yes, no question. Well, thank you for being here. And I look forward to hearing more about the committee and what it's like going through that process starting this Thursday.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: Thanks, Dr. Offit.</s>OFFIT: Thank you.</s>HARLOW: Well, still to come, on the trail and on the attack, the president's closing strategy seems less about him and more about targeting others. Why?</s>SCIUTTO: Plus, the Supreme Court makes a decision that will allow more mail-in ballots to be counted in the critical battleground state of Pennsylvania. The impact of that important decision ahead. And the FBI has now labeled QAnon a domestic terror threat for their dangerous conspiracy theories.</s>DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pizzagate, it's a conspiracy theory. You don't believe it's a conspiracy theory?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it's definitely not. Pizza is a code word for child pornography. Cheese pizza, child pornography.</s>SCIUTTO: CNN's Donie O'Sullivan takes you inside a QAnon event. You really have to see this.

Final Presidential Debate Set for Thursday Night

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. The president is hitting the trail for another rally tonight in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, defying warnings from health officials all while taking on the nation's leading expert who is giving us the science and the facts.</s>HARLOW: Yes, two weeks out from election day. Will this closing strategy work for the president as it did in 2016? Josh Dawsey is here, White House reporter for "The Washington Post" and Jackie Kucinich; Washington Bureau chief for the "Daily Beast". Good morning guys, good to have you. Josh, your reporting in the last 48 hours on this has all been really fascinating from inside the taskforce and what's going on there to the president's strategy. Could you just talk about this in terms of what you know about why the president continues to focus on attacking Dr. Fauci for example, instead of say the economy, which even his advisors say it will be much stronger closing message for him?</s>JOSH DAWSEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, the president was enraged Sunday night about Dr. Fauci's television interview with "60 Minutes". Fauci was impulsively critical of the administration on the virus, and said he wasn't surprised that the president had caught coronavirus because he had behaved -- yes, somewhat irresponsibly at a super spreader event. And said that the administration had tried to muzzle him, and the president has really disliked in the last few months how much television Dr. Fauci has been on.</s>SCIUTTO: Right. He may also dislike that Fauci has better trustworthy ratings than the president. Jackie Kucinich, what is the Biden-Harris strategy and message for the closing two weeks of this race?</s>JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: I mean, they've been saying listen to the doctors since the very beginning of this pandemic for the most part. And particularly in recent weeks as the president has continued to flout masks, you heard him in that -- he had a "Fox News" interview this morning where he was still talking about crowd size, so -- and trying -- and almost seeming to talk about the pandemic in the past tense. Not quite there, but almost there. So the Biden and the Harris campaign have really seized on this, and talked about, you know, what a way forward would look like if perhaps there was some strategy to get through the pandemic instead of whatever the president -- instead of the president seems to be choosing to ignore it rather than try to get people through it. And we know, as Peter often said in your last segment, the worst is yet to come. So trying to keep people prepared rather than just plow through it seems to be what the Biden-Harris campaign is saying --</s>SCIUTTO: Right --</s>KUCINICH: At this point.</s>HARLOW: Jackie, what do you make of the Debate Commission and the rule change that they're going to mute the mics of the other candidate when one is at least given the first part of their initial response to a question. I know the president said this morning, you know, he might not totally abide by that, he might talk over it, but it will certainly be harder to hear. And that couldn't have been an easy decision for them to make.</s>KUCINICH: I mean, the look of that first debate seems to have put this commission on their head. And then what --</s>HARLOW: Yes --</s>KUCINICH: Happened with the second debate, having to cancel it, having the issues with moderator Steve Scully, they really have been trying to kind of find their center here. And you saw this sort of -- that this might be something that they were going to do because President Trump did talk over Joe Biden basically the balance of that first debate, so that perhaps, you know, maybe those watching could hear, you know, some views rather than just yelling. But this does -- you have to wonder, I mean, what else were they going to do. But this does put this in a tough position because it gives the president another reason to say the system is rigged against me, which he's been doing from go. I mean, criticizing Kristen Welker who is a pro's pro.</s>HARLOW: Totally.</s>KUCINICH: It's just another way to look at the -- make the president seem like he is the victim here and lower expectations as he's going into this final debate.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, those attacks are never about the record. They're about a strategy, they're about undermining confidence in the journalists involved. Josh, in your reporting, you talk about how advisors, you know, they want the president to focus on the economy, what the negative effects of a Biden victory would be in their view, and yet he maintains focus on this rally strategy, attacking Fauci, et cetera. I just wonder, you know, for four years, we've heard of, you know, pushes within the president's inner circle for a more coordinated message, a message to moderates, et cetera, which the president almost all the time ignores. I just wonder, does anyone in the inner circle expect these final two weeks to be any different?</s>DAWSEY: Not particularly. I mean, he's done it his way the whole time. When they get the polling back, it shows that the only place where he has advantage over Joe Biden at least in the RNC and Republican and campaign polling and some of the internal stuff is on the economy, and they want him to really hammer that home in the final stretches of the race. But the president has had a lot of other attacks from, you know, talking about Hunter Biden, he's talking about Fauci, he's talking about how the coronavirus is behind us. You know, the campaign, relentlessly sees that coronavirus is a political albatross here. And the president even after being hospitalized has not moderated his message really at all. I mean, the president has continued to say, this is ending, he's going to listen to Scott Atlas -- you know, what he's doing now, I'm going to stretch, and what his campaign advisors are trying to tell him is, you already have your base, you already have your supporters. So, people who like the kind of hard-core message you're saying, they're voting for you anyway. What you need to do is bring new people into the tent. And whether there are that many undecided he can't bring in on, it's unclear, but his messaging in the past few days has not been what his team would want to see on some of these fronts.</s>HARLOW: Good to have you both. Josh Dawsey, Jackie Kucinich, thank you very much.</s>KUCINICH: Thank you.</s>DAWSEY: Thank you.</s>HARLOW: Well, a big win for Democrats overnight as the U.S. Supreme Court rules that Pennsylvania can indeed count mail-in ballots for up to three days after the election. There's an issue here about if you can tell what the postmark says, we'll get to that in a moment. But what does this mean for other states?</s>SCIUTTO: And we are moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures are up, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says a deal must be made by the end of today if a stimulus package is going to be approved before the election. Senate Republicans on the other hand working on a plan of their own. Investors keeping a close eye on Capitol Hill, we'll have much more on this just ahead.

Supreme Court Allows Pennsylvania to Count Mail-In Ballots Received after Election Day

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: A major Supreme Court decision just yesterday, the Supreme Court ruling 4-4, Chief Justice John Roberts siding with three liberal justices to allow Pennsylvania to count votes past Election Day. The election law expert, Rick Hasen, summed the implications of this perfectly, says, quote, if you thought the stakes of a Barrett confirmation couldn't get any higher, they just did. Rick Hasen is also professor of law and political science at the University California, Irvine. He joins me now. And, Rick, you make this point, right now, the court only has eight justices, it is 4-4. Chief Justice Roberts essentially saying Pennsylvania can count ballots even if they come in after Election Day for a few days, he says, that's okay, this ruling says, and if the postmark is not completely legible. How significant is this in what we know will be one of the big key presidential battlegrounds?</s>RICK HASEN, PROFESSOR OF LAW AND POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, IRVINE: Well, it's significant in two respects. One is it affects what's going to happen on the ground in Pennsylvania. It means that people have a longer time to get their ballots in. Those who wait until the last minute will have a better chance of getting their count, although I urge everyone to vote as early as possible. But it also has larger implications in terms of what it means for if there's any post-election litigation. It shows a court that's really closely divided. And it shows that if Judge Barrett is confirmed next week, as she is predicted to be, that she could be the deciding vote. And if she sides with the conservatives, that means other things that Democrats might try to do to extend deadlines won't be as successful.</s>KING: And so let's walk through that in terms of what types of cases are most likely going to reach the Supreme Court either just before or after the election, when Justice Barrett could be on the bench, and you would 6-3 then. So even if John Roberts sided with the liberals, there would be 5 conservatives. What types of cases in terms of their impact on the count or when the count must be completed or when ballots get tossed out, what are you looking at as most significant?</s>HASEN: So what's happening right now is a kind of winding down all of the pre-election litigation. There are still a few petitions about -- one about curbside voting at Alabama, one in Wisconsin about the -- extending deadlines as well. Those cases are going to end. But if it's a close election and it comes down to an election contest or a recount in a place like Pennsylvania or a place like North Carolina. You've got this weird configuration in those states here you've got a Democratic-dominated state Supreme Court, a Republican legislature, they might disagree about what the rules are. And this opinion from Pennsylvania or the lack of an opinion from the court but the close division in the case for Pennsylvania, as it signals that the court might side with Republican legislatures over Democratic Supreme Court over any post-election litigation.</s>KING: And you raise a fascinating issue there because legislatures versus state Supreme Courts, in the sense that the Supreme Court traditionally has followed the Constitution, which says, states administer their elections, therefore, if this has been settled at the state level, we're going to leave it there, unless it's a voting rights issue, some big federal issue. Do you see a path to sort of go into new ground for the Supreme Court?</s>HASEN: Right. So it gets really arcane, but the idea is that the Constitution says that state legislatures get to set the rules for presidential elections. And the argument that the Republicans made in the Pennsylvania case is that when the state Supreme Court in Pennsylvania came in and extended the deadline in line with the state's Constitution, it was taking power away from the state's legislature. It's a radical theory but it's one that we don't know because the justices didn't write, but it's one that might be attracting the four most conservative justices on the Supreme Court. And that could really change the kind of breath of what a state Supreme Court would be able to do in any post-election litigation.</s>KING: Fascinating politics, also fascinating legal ramifications coming in the days and weeks ahead. Rick Hasen, grateful for your time today. I'm sure we'll be checking in as these cases line their way through the court. I appreciate it very much. And just today, early voting in person or early in-person voting beginning in Hawaii, Utah and in battleground Wisconsin. By Thursday night's debate between President Trump and Democrat Joe Biden, in-person early voting will have started in 42 of 50 states. Nationwide, more than 32 million ballots already cast. That's according to a survey of election officials by CNN, Edison Research and by Catalyst, Catalyst, a data company that provides data analytics and other services to Democrats, academics, a non-profit issue advocacy organization. With me now is CNN's Kristen Holmes, who is tracking all this. Number one, the raw numbers, Kristen, are off the charts. So we're watching people vote in record numbers. And I was just talking about with Rick, we're also watching these legal cases, which are going to complicate things.</s>KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, John. And we've been watching these legal cases unfold. The fact that we're so close to the election and there is still so much up in the air, it doesn't give a lot of confidence to voters. And that's why you're seeing a lot of them go early in person. They don't want to take any chances. They know there is some sort of idea that this could change before the election. And they don't want to risk it. Now, I do want to talk about those numbers in Florida because we have now seen what yesterday's first day of early voting looked like. And it was over 350,000 people who showed up. Now, I talked to two election officials in the state earlier today. They said they were absolutely swamped. They have never had any sort of a turnout like that before. But just to touch on Wisconsin, because this is one of these really interesting states that we're going to be watching, not only on the election night but potentially in the days afterwards. This is a state in which they cannot count those ballots until the morning of. Those election officials cannot start feeding the ballots into the machine until 7:00 A.M. on Election Day. So that will be interesting to watch. The other thing we're watching is for turnout in Wisconsin for early in-person voting. The reason being that Wisconsin is one of the states that makes it the absolute hardest to cast an absentee ballot, they have the strict I.D. requirements, they also require a witness signature, something we know has been very hard for people during the pandemic. So we want to see if people are actually going to show up and early in-person vote today. John?</s>KING: We'll keep an eye on that as well. And, Kristen Holmes, I appreciate you tracking this every day for us, important to tell people out there we may not know on election night the winner because of all these mail-in ballots, because of Wisconsin and other states are going to take some time, absolutely nothing wrong with that. Take your time, count the votes, there are people from both campaigns watching. It can be done without any shenanigans and it can be done right. Kristen Holmes, grateful, you're helping us through this every day. When we come back, President Trump, the first lady off to Erie, Pennsylvania today at a time the commonwealth has a big surge in COVID cases.

Pennsylvania Reports Highest Test Positivity Rate Since August

KING: President Trump and the first lady head to Erie, Pennsylvania today for a campaign rally. This just as the governor says now is the time to double down on fighting the coronavirus. The commonwealth has been averaging, you see it there, more than 1,000 new cases every day over the past two weeks. 21 of Pennsylvania's 67 counties report a positivity rate of greater than 5 percent. The statewide positive rate is 4.3 percent. That's the highest there since early August. Joining me now is Dr. Rachel Levine, Secretary of Health of Pennsylvania. Dr. Levine, grateful for your time today. It's interesting, some of the data you provided the show, people are getting new symptoms in your state, 50 percent reported going to a restaurant within 14 days prior to the onset of their symptoms. 14 percent said visited a bar, 13 percent, a gym, 8 percent, a salon or barber shop. People went to other businesses as well. That 50 percent number though, that strikes me as if I'm in your job, do we need to do something about this. Fair question?</s>DR. RACHEL LEVINE, SECRETARY OF HEALTH FOR THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, always a fair question. So we do have mitigation orders in place for restaurants and for bars at 50 percent indoor capacity. And so, we are watching those numbers very closely. It's really restaurants, bars, businesses, et cetera, but it's also small gatherings, as has been noted nationally, that family and friends gathering together where people might relax, their use of masks and social distancing, that's also a risk factor.</s>KING: Also a risk factor. I also want to look at the trends right now in terms of percentage of patients on ventilators, 87 patients in recent days on ventilators in your state up from the previous seven days. That's trending in the wrong direction, obviously, because if you are on a ventilator, you have a more serious case. What is your sense? You've been at this, I'm sure you're exhausted, at least for seven-plus months now dealing with this. What does that ventilator number tell you about the current trajectory in the commonwealth?</s>LEVINE: Well, we are seeing more patients hospitalized in Pennsylvania now than we have seen for a long time. Our numbers have doubled over the last month. We have well over 800 people in the hospital, about 10 percent on a ventilator. That is much higher than it was before, but it's not as high as it was in the spring when we had well over 3,000 patients in the hospital and up to 30 percent of those were on a ventilator.</s>KING: And so at this moment, you're trying to deal with a resurgent virus, the president of the United States is coming for a rally in Erie tonight. And listen to him here in Nevada the other. He says Pennsylvania is not part of the solution, it's part of the problem.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Pennsylvania has to open. I mean, you know, we have -- we have places, and sometimes they're open but they're partially hope, they're not open like they should be. Get the places open. Let's go. Let's go.</s>KING: Does that complicate your job and the governor's job in that the president has pretty deep support in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania? When he is yelling every day open, open, open, does it make it more complicated for you to tell people we're at a bad moment we need you to be extra careful?</s>LEVINE: Well, as the governor and I talked about yesterday, and you have been mentioning, we are in our fall resurgence, as is most of the country, particularly the Midwest and the mountain west. There are three ways to deal with a pandemic. You can work to contain it, you can work to mitigate the spread and then we're all be hoping for a vaccine when it's determined to be safe and effective. And so we need our current moderate mitigation orders in place, and most importantly we need everyone to unite together. We are all interconnected in terms of fighting this virus. And we need everybody to work with us to wear masks, social distance, wash their hands and to really bind together to fight this virus and stop its spread.</s>KING: I wish that last part was not so controversial. It certainly shouldn't be. But as you well know, it is for some reason. I guess it has to do with the fact that we're in an election year, part of that. Dr. Levine, grateful for your time and insight. Best of luck in the days and weeks ahead. I know you're dealing with this in a difficult time. Thank you. Up next for us, it is deadline day here in Washington for a coronavirus stimulus deal.

Today, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) Set Deadline to Approve Relief Deal Before November 3.

KING: Today is the deadline for a coronavirus stimulus deal. And the president he is willing to anger Republicans and go big. The talks that matter are between the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, and Trump treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin. They're speaking again this afternoon. Speaker Pelosi says differences need to be resolved by today if there's any chance of getting a deal passed by Election Day. Senate Republicans say the price tag being discussed in those House negotiations, way too big. But the president says if he can make a deal with the House, he believes he can get the GOP Senate to go along.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mitch McConnell isn't exactly on board with those negotiations.</s>TRUMP: Well, he'll be on board if something comes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Thune says he doesn't want to even go close to 2 trillion.</s>TRUMP: Well, we'll have to talk to Senator Thune.</s>KING: CNN's Lauren Fox is up on Capitol Hill for us. Lauren, before the president would have to pick up the phone and disappoint Mitch McConnell and John Thune, he'd have to get a deal with Nancy Pelosi. Where are we?</s>LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, essentially, they are going to speak again today at 3:00. This is the day, this is the self-imposed deadline for the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi. But I will tell you, there are a few grim signs on Capitol Hill about where negotiations stand. I'm told that yesterday, appropriations staff from both the Senate and House met to try to craft some kind of language in areas where Mnuchin and Pelosi thought that they were moving closer together. I am told that that meeting did not go well. And, essentially, there are a lot of outstanding questions about what Mnuchin and Pelosi have even agreed to at this point. I am told from aides on both the left and right that, essentially, there is confusion about exactly where the negotiations stand. I'm also told that while this meeting is going to happen today, Senate Republicans are not optimistic that a deal will be reached, and certainly even if one is reached, it's going to be a deal that they can get behind, a lot of Republicans, conservatives saying that this price tag, John, is just too high.</s>KING: Too high, they say. We'll continue tracking it. We'll see. A lot of people would like help from Washington. Lauren Fox, thank you so much. Up next for us, a new study on how classrooms can reduce the spread of the coronavirus.

CDC Announces 299,000 Excess Deaths Since January

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: It is the top of the hour, I'm Brianna Keilar. And this just in, a new CDC report shows just how devastating this pandemic has been since it started, with tens of thousands of what's called "excess deaths." This is quoting the report. "An estimated 299,028 more persons than expected have died since January 26, 2020; approximately two-thirds of these deaths were attributed to COVID-19." This as the nation reports more than 58,000 new cases a day, this is a level that has not been seen since mid-July. And that number is 40 percent higher than last Monday's total. Over the last seven days, 400,000 people have become infected in this country, but the president is still denying reality, telling us this crisis is getting better when it isn't.</s>BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: What is the plan to live with it while staying safe from it?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): Well, we are living with it and we're having the vaccines coming out very soon. With or without the vaccines, we're rounding the turn. We will never shut down.</s>KEILAR: And how often is President Trump meeting with members of his Coronavirus Task Force? The head of the National Institutes of Health had this to say.</s>FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH (via telephone): We have not met with the president in quite some time. I think the president is primarily getting his information from the vice president, from Dr. Atlas. There's not a direct connection between the task force members and the president, as there was a few months ago. But this seems to be a different time with different priorities.</s>KEILAR: Elizabeth Cohen is CNN's senior medical correspondent. And let's walk through these CDC numbers, because you've got an estimated 299,000 -- almost 300,000 deaths -- more deaths -- than were expected, Elizabeth, two thirds of those attributed to COVID-19. So what about the other third?</s>ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, we're actually not sure exactly what that other third is. It could be a combination of things, it probably is a combination of different causes of deaths. Some of them might be because of delayed care during -- especially in the beginning of the outbreak. A lot of people sort of delayed their care, delayed their cancer tests, all of that, and that might be also at play here. What's really interesting here is that when you look at these numbers, Brianna, what you see is that the age group that's most affected was actually relatively young people, between the ages of 25 and 44. In other words, when you look at deaths in that age group 25 to 44, for this year, from late January until early October, compare it for the same time period for 2019 or 18 or all -- you know, back five years, the most dramatic difference is for that age group. So compared to previous years, that age group has suffered more than other age groups. Also Hispanic people have suffered more than other ethnic groups. And this really sort of gives you a feeling for just how dramatic this all is. So when President Trump tries to say that COVID is in effect no big deal, these numbers say different.</s>KEILAR: Yes, it is a big deal and it's a bigger deal for groups that maybe you didn't even think of. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you for taking us through that.</s>COHEN: Thanks.</s>KEILAR: My next guest has spent more than 30 years in public health. James Blumenstock is senior vice president for Pandemic Response and Recovery of the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, which is the organization that represents more than 100,000 public health professionals across the country. James, thank you for being with us. And I just want to get your reaction. When you hear the CDC study saying that there have been almost 300,000 excess deaths from coronavirus -- or really, two-thirds of those being attributed to COVID-19. What's your reaction to that?</s>JAMES BLUMENSTOCK, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT FOR PANDEMIC RESPONSE, ASSOCIATION OF STATE AND TERRITORIAL HEALTH OFFICIALS: Well hi, Brianna. You know, the data speak for themselves. You know, clearly, you know, we are seeing a serious uptick in cases across the country right now. And as you talk about the demographics and the populations that are being represented in the data that you've just shared, you know, I think we could attribute the increase in cases really to two main factors. You know, first is the change of seasons. You know, with the fall coming and colder weather, more people are going to be recreating and socializing indoors, which really increases the risk of exposure. And the second point -- which is a harsh reality, btu we have to recognize it -- is the fact that we as a society are dealing with pandemic fatigue. It's real just as the threat is. You know, we have to recognize it's been a long, hard seven to eight months for everyone, and sometimes we let our guard down, especially as we try to return to some degree of ordinary life and activities. But still, we all must be strong and not fall victim to a false sense of security, even when we're in familiar or otherwise safe environments. You know, we all have our own personal or social bubble that we feel comfortable in. But in these times and with the data that you just shared, clearly that is not sufficient protection for us to rely upon if we're going to get through this together in a safer way.</s>KEILAR: Let's talk about the vaccine now, because you actually say that states won't have the money to distribute the vaccine properly. Why is that?</s>BLUMENSTOCK: Well, the states and territories and local health departments are really working 24/7 to build out their plans and develop a state of readiness, should and when an acceptable vaccine become available. The level of effort and the money needed to do planning, OK, you know, is minor compared to the amount of resources that will be needed to launch this national historic complex vaccination campaign that could commence as soon as the next several months. It is hugely labor- and technology-intensive and the nation's public health system just does not have available resources in its coffers to support that level of effort to ensure that the vaccine is administered as safely, efficiently and effectively and equitably as possible.</s>KEILAR: And yes, this is something that's -- it's labor-intensive, right? This idea of distribution. It's not a simple task. What more do they need, going forward?</s>BLUMENSTOCK: Well, our association and others estimate that the resources needed for the duration of this campaign is estimated to be at $8.4 billion. You know, we certainly respectfully disagree with Secretary Azar's assessment that sufficient funding is available, but we do not believe so and nor does the CDC. And the point to be made here is that this is going to be, you know, a tremendous level of effort. We don't want to basically erode all other essential public health services for this campaign. We need to augment this effort while still providing all the other essential services that the communities need and deserve. The U.S. government has invested in billions of dollars in vaccine research, development and production. That same level of commitment and effort should be applied to the nation's public health system that's responsible for the last tactical mile, as we say, where the vaccine's going to be allocated, distributed and administered in the communities throughout this country.</s>KEILAR: Yes, it's -- I mean it's huge, right? The vaccine isn't the answer, vaccination is the answer. And states are a huge part of this. James Blumenstock --</s>BLUMENSTOCK: Absolutely.</s>KEILAR: -- thank you so much, thanks for being with us.</s>BLUMENSTOCK: Thanks -- my pleasure, thanks for the opportunity.</s>KEILAR: Coming up, early voting is now under way in the battleground state of Wisconsin. We're going to have a closer look at the turnout there. Plus, the road to 270 electoral votes: an inside look at the path for Biden and Trump and the story behind the numbers. Then later, can lawmakers reach a stimulus deal before the deadline? Find out what's holding up negotiations.

Trump May Need Upper Midwest to Win Election

KEILAR: Under way right now, early voting in the battleground state of Wisconsin. President Trump is looking to win the state for a second time, but coronavirus ripping through Wisconsin could complicate things. Omar Jimenez is on the ground in Milwaukee. And tell us, Omar, how are the voting lines looking so far?</s>OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, the voting lines have shrunk significantly from what we saw at the very start of the day. Of course, this is the first opportunity for people to early vote here in Wisconsin. At one point, the line behind me was two hours long, that's how long it took for people to get up front. Obviously you can see it is much shorter at this point. They are letting people in around three people at a time, but of course everybody here is wearing masks because, here in Wisconsin, the voters and citizens are having to balance trying to fulfill their civic duty of voting but also trying to be safe in the age of COVID. And we spoke to one voter who told us that it was not only that, but also the fact that he wanted to make sure his vote was counted and not rely on the doubt he felt was in sending his vote by mail.</s>EDUARDO DE LA TORRE, WISCONSIN EARLY VOTER: I'm a young person, I'm not, you know, immune -- I don't have any immune deficiencies. So if I can, you know, risk myself a little bit, come vote in person to free up some of the mail system and capacity so that older people that, you know, aren't able to do the same or people that are immune compromised can vote by mail, it's kind of like us al doing our part, taking the precautions necessary to keep everybody else safe and making sure that everybody has, you know, the ability to get their voice heard.</s>JIMENEZ: And of course, this is all happening within the backdrop of the pandemic. When you go back to April here in Wisconsin, that's when we had the primaries here and that was really the first test we had seen with an election happening within the backdrop of the pandemic here in Wisconsin. And they tried to move the election back over fears of coronavirus. And at that time, the positivity rate was under 10 percent, the daily case count was a little over 150. You fast-forward a few months now, that positivity rate here in Wisconsin, over 20 percent, cases in the thousands on those daily counts. And people still feel they need to come out and carry out this civic duty of voting -- Brianna.</s>KEILAR: All right, Omar, thank you for showing us the scene there in Milwaukee. And with just two weeks until Election Day, nearly 30 million ballots have already been cast. And each day, we're getting a clearer picture of what President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden need to do to get to that magic number, which is 270 electoral votes. I want to bring in CNN political director David Chalian to take us through this. OK. So, David, let's start with Joe Biden. What is his shortest path to the White House?</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. Well let's remember, this is the picture from 2016, this is where we left off at the end of that election. You see all the red across the map, and Donald Trump victorious with 306 electoral votes. You remember, Brianna, this critical part of the upper Midwest, Rust Belt region -- Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin -- all red. Remember, Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton very narrowly in those three states. Now if we look at the current electoral college outlook that we have, look at that same path. They're all leaning blue right now, that upper Midwest, Rust Belt region. Right now -- and this is not a prediction of what's going to be two weeks from now, this is just where things look right now -- those states are leaning in Joe Biden's direction. It's what has him over that 270 threshold, he's at 290 in our current outlook, Donald Trump down at 163. We also have Arizona tipping his way, but it is this upper Midwest region that is his easiest path, I think, to 270 electoral votes.</s>KEILAR: And let's pivot to the president. How is his path different than 2016?</s>CHALIAN: So take a look at this. He's down at 163 in the current outlook right now, right? He did two rallies yesterday in Arizona, right? That's now leaning in Joe Biden's direction, but let's say Donald Trump can win that back, it's a reliably Republican state, only went Democratic in '96, in the last 70 years. Let's say he wins that back. Look at the yellow on this map, Brianna. What if Donald Trump wins every toss-up? Florida, Georgia, North Carolina. Watch his total go up over there. Ohio, let's say he wins. Let's give him Iowa, and let's give him this second congressional district in Maine, they award their votes by congressional district there. You get him up to 262, he's still shy of 270. So where does he go? Back to that region up here is probably where he goes to try and flip one of these states. Just one would do it at that point. Pennsylvania would put him over the top, but so would Michigan or Wisconsin at that point. But that means he's got to run the table of the toss-ups, try and get back Arizona, already leaning in Biden's direction, and win one of those upper Midwest states. But upper Midwest states, which is also right now a Biden strength -- Brianna.</s>KEILAR: Wow. And also, I think a lot of people are wondering when are we going to know who the next president is if Trump wins re-election or if Biden unseats him? Are we going to find out on Election Night?</s>CHALIAN: You know, it's a good question. Because so many more Americans are going to be voting by mail this year than we've ever seen before, it's going to take some time, especially in states that don't have a lot of history of a lot of mail votes. So specifically Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, it may take them a little time, Brianna, to actually count all those paper votes by mail. So I would just urge everyone, pack your patience. Just because it's taking a while to count all the votes doesn't mean anything's necessarily wrong. We may have a result on Election Night. But if it's close, you could imagine it'll be a few days.</s>KEILAR: Pack your patience, pack your snacks, do all those things.</s>CHALIAN: Yes.</s>KEILAR: David Chalian, thank you so much.</s>CHALIAN: Thanks.</s>KEILAR: Maria Bartiromo was once a reputable business journalist. She was the first reporter to broadcast live from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Well, that was then and this is now. And the now, she's using her platform on Fox Business to push baseless smears and conspiracy theories. We'll roll the tape, next.

Maria Bartiromo Pushes Conspiracy Theories on Fox.

KEILAR: Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin is elevating a smear against the Biden family without evidence. CNN and other outlets cannot verify the broader report, and U.S. officials are investigating whether it's actually tied to a Russian disinformation effort. The senator's claim has the hallmarks of QAnon, the conspiracy group that believes Democrats and celebrities are blood-drinking Satanic pedophiles. It's being aired and fertilized by Fox. Maria Bartiromo, their high-profile business host, floated it. And it's part of a pattern, as she pushes many other conspiracy theories that can only be described as propaganda.</s>TRUMP (via telephone): -- could get it done, and I'd get (INAUDIBLE done.</s>MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS HOST: But there was still a coup against you. There was still a coup against you --</s>TRUMP (via telephone): Everybody --</s>BARTIROMO: -- do you think the Mueller report, was the Mueller investigation just a cover-up for what they had done? Do you believe Russia and China were spying and knowing our secrets because of Hillary's unsecured server? It is the biggest political scandal --</s>TRUMP: -- and people should be going to jail.</s>KEILAR: That so-called biggest political scandal that they've ever seen has since evaporated into what it was all along, nothing. The Justice Department under Bill Barr -- who we must note has weathered criticism for acting more like the president's personal attorney than an independent law enforcement official -- reportedly found no wrongdoing in the Obama administration unmasking drama. And then there was this.</s>BARTIROMO: We now know from these documents that John Ratcliffe unveiled, that it was Hillary Clinton's idea to tie you to Russia in some way.</s>KEILAR: No, no. Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe, who was following QAnon Twitter accounts when Trump appointed him, released unverified Russian intelligence about Clinton. Key words here? "Unverified" and "Russian." He wrote, in a letter to the Senate, that the intelligence community, quote, "does not know the accuracy of this allegation or the extent to which the Russian intelligence analysis may reflect exaggeration or fabrication," end quote. Bartiromo is also pushing the conspiracy theory about widespread voter fraud.</s>BARTIROMO: What are you going to do about it, Mr. President? If they cheated in 2016, they're going to cheat again. How are you going to stop this and ensure that you have the wherewithal to fight back if it's all ballot lies?</s>KEILAR: I know I may sound like a broken record here, but President Trump's hand-selected voter fraud commission wrapped up without finding evidence of it. Larger numbers of Americans will choose to vote by mail this year because we're in the middle of a deadly pandemic, and there is no evidence that mail-in voting is more susceptible to voter fraud despite what the president claims. Bartiromo has also perfected the Fox art of suggesting something to the president to make it his idea. Parents of small children, you will know this trick well but you probably used it to try to get your kids to eat their veggies, not to fire the FBI director.</s>BARTIROMO: Is Christopher Wray hiding all of this stuff and protecting the FBI? Should he step down?</s>TRUMP (via telephone): That's true.</s>BARTIROMO: Where is John Durham, Mr. President? Is he -- I mean, where is --</s>TRUMP (via telephone): I hope he's --</s>BARTIROMO: -- John Durham? We know that there was criminality.</s>KEILAR: There's also the Fox technique of asking the president about something he did wrong by blaming critics for bringing it up.</s>BARTIROMO: I want you to answer your critics, because your critics are going really -- getting upset about your event at the White House yesterday, about your rally that you're planning tomorrow. Address the criticism, Mr. President, the criticism that you removed your mask for a photo op.</s>KEILAR: Another way to ask the question would be: Why did you violate your own CDC's guidelines and remove your mask for a photo op during a deadly pandemic? She's acting like the problem isn't that the president hosts superspreader events and doesn't wear a mask when he's COVID-positive, it's that so-called critics point it out.</s>BARTIROMO: -- but your colleagues in the Senate, Nancy Pelosi in the House and her colleagues are saying that you did not handle COVID correctly while they were actually trying to impeach you. Did the COVID conversation come up at all during the impeachment trial or around that date?</s>TRUMP (via telephone): No, because we were focused on impeachment.</s>KEILAR: I see, blame the distraction of impeachment for the government's failed response. Planting the seed.</s>BARTIROMO: Even in the face of all of this, you've gotten --</s>TRUMP (via telephone): Yes?</s>BARTIROMO: -- so much done, economic policy, foreign policy, naming judges. And in the face of all of this resistance. First, you had the resistance from inside your own government, you had the FBI working with the Hillary Clinton campaign, she paid for the dossier --</s>TRUMP (via telephone): Right.</s>BARTIROMO: -- they used it to help entrap your campaign. Then you had the media piling on, then you had an impeachment trial with no crimes, the articles of impeachment were abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Then you had China throw the curveball at you with the virus, Democrat mayors and governors refusing to stop crime and vandalism. This is all your first term.

COVID Surges Two Weeks Away from November Election; Trump Campaigns in Pennsylvania Amid Rise in COVID Cases.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing this very busy news day with us. We're two weeks from Election Day and the United States crossing a new gut punch milestone in the coronavirus fight. 220,000 American deaths -- 220,000. The president this morning predicts another comeback win. Democratic nominee, Joe Biden, off the campaign trail today preparing for Thursday's final debate. The president though treks to Pennsylvania. That state, of course, a critical piece of his 2016 surprise. But polling this time shows him consistently trailing. In a morning Fox News interview, this closing message.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): The bottom line: the American dream, the great American dream versus being a socialist hell hole. Because they're going to turn us into a socialist nation, we're going to be no different than Venezuela. And I'll tell you what, it can happen. It can happen. All of the crime is coming out of Democrat states. Republicans are doing incredible on crime, on opening, on economic. It's all -- everything coming out -- crime and other problems, are in Democrat run states. And I hope people realize that.</s>KING: That's the president view, but it is simply impossible to separate the campaign from the coronavirus. Look at the numbers and they show a resurgent virus right as voters are picking the president who will manage this pandemic response come January. Monday you see it there, 58,000 plus new cases. That is the worst Monday since July 20th. That July 20th back at the peak of the summer surge. The country added 400,000 infections in the case count in just the last week. 16 states now recording the highest daily average of new cases. The public health message is crystal clear. The United States never properly managed the first wave, making the second, more dangerous. It's just not safe to have Thanksgiving as normal. All the experts say that. And we won't know until the end of November if a coronavirus vaccine will work or not. The president's message though, stay the course.</s>BRIAN KILMEADE, CNN HOST: What is the plan to live with it while staying safe from it?</s>TRUMP (via telephone): Well, we are living with it and we're having the vaccines coming out very soon. With or without vaccines, we're rounding the turn. We will never shutdown.</s>KING: "Rounding the turn." The president says. Let's take a closer look at the numbers and you decide if you think this is rounding the turn. 31 states right now. That's the orange and red. Many of you familiar with this map. 31 states now trending in the wrong direction. Wrong direction, that means more new coronavirus infections right now compared to the data a week ago. 31 states trending up. Two of them, 50 percent more cases this week, compare Washington state and Rhode Island. 50 percent or more new cases right now than a week ago. 31 states trending up. 18 states, that's the beige, holding steady. Only one, only one, Hawaii, reporting fewer infections right now than a week ago. You look at the case timeline and this is where it gets worrisome. The first hill back in March and April, came down, up to the summer surge. Came down but nowhere near far enough now heading back up. And look, you're right here now, Monday, just shy of 60,000 cases. You see the peak of the summer surge here. It is - sure looks inevitable that we're about to blow past that in the days and weeks ahead. We thought this was horrific. We're heading back up a hill right now. Hospitalizations also trending back up a little bit in recent days. We need to watch that number. If there's a silver lining, and this is a horrible way to put it, but if there's a silver lining, it has been that so far, so far, 445 deaths yesterday, every one of them sad, painful to a family, friends, coworkers, and the like. 445 on Monday. This line so far has stayed below where many of the projections thought. Many of the projections thought as we had more cases this would start to go back up. Let's hope they stay wrong. Let's hope. It's because older people are protecting themselves. Treatments are keeping other people in better shape. Let's hope that one stays down. Let's look at the positivity rate. The five states you see right here, this is the highest positivity in the country right now. 50 percent in Iowa. 50 percent, half of the people who test for coronavirus are coming back positive. 37 percent in South Dakota, 21 percent Wyoming, 29 percent Idaho, 46 percent Nevada. We also see double digits in Kansas, in Nebraska. Double digits again in Florida, Alabama and Mississippi. A lot of double digits across the northern part of the country where yes, it is getting colder now. In this political environment, some people say, what about states who don't have a mask mandate. What's the situation there? You noticed, four of the top five in terms of positivity, Idaho, Wyoming, South Dakota and Iowa are states that do not have a mask mandate. Four of the top five states in terms of positivity. Nevada being the fifth right there. You look at this map. You look at the case timeline. You see a problem. You see a problem. Dr. Anthony Fauci says, example in recent interviews, be more careful, wear a mask, listen to public health experts, do not plan a crowded Thanksgiving. The president of the United States says don't listen to Dr. Fauci. He doesn't play fair.</s>TRUMP: The only thing I say, he's a little bit sometimes not a team player. But he is a Democrat and I think that he's just fine. It's a view, we have others. Scott Atlas is fantastic. But they go after him so much, he has a different view. By the way, everybody has a different view.</s>WILL CAIN, FOX NEWS HOST: Sure.</s>TRUMP (via telephone): Different views are everything. Doesn't mean they are wrong or they're bad people. But people have different views.</s>CAIN: But to be clear, Mr. President --</s>TRUMP: And ultimately, I make the decisions.</s>CAIN: Of course.</s>TRUMP: And we've saved millions of lives by the decisions I've made.</s>KING: Let's get straight to the White House to CNN's John Harwood. John, number one in the middle of a pandemic, interesting that you're picking a fight constantly with your top public health expert. Number two, in the closing days of a campaign as well to be picking this fight.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's very unusual, John. And the president's rhetoric on the pandemic and on Anthony Fauci is as detached from reality as those earlier bites you were playing on him on the economy. And predicting Venezuela and socialist hell hole. That sort of thing. Anthony Fauci is not a partisan figure. He served presidents of both parties since Ronald Reagan. And what we're seeing is that in polling, the American people trust Tony Fauci more than they trust the president on the coronavirus. And the entire public health community is rallying to Anthony Fauci's defense. Here's Francis Collins, the director of the National Institutes of Health.</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH (via telephone): Tony Fauci is probably the most highly respected infectious disease expert in the world. He's also a terrific communicator, and I think the public has actually been greatly benefitted by hearing his unvarnished, unflinching descriptions of what's happening with this worst pandemic in more than 100 years. I have great confidence in him.</s>HARWOOD: And John, one more piece of evidence that the president is on the short side of public opinion in this fight with Fauci is in a New York Times/Siena poll this morning, 37 percent of the American people said they agreed that the worst is behind us. But 51 percent said the worst is ahead of us on this pandemic. That pretty closely mirrors Joe Biden's advantage over President Trump in national polling.</s>KING: It raises questions, number one, about the president's handling or mishandling of the pandemic and number two about his discipline as a candidate. You mentioned that Fauci is more popular in the polls. Let's just put some of it up. This is from a Kaiser Health poll. It's back in late August, early September, but you see the numbers here. Who do you trust as the person reliable for information? 68 percent trust Dr. Fauci a great deal or fair amount. Only four in 10 Americans say that about the president of the United States. And as you just played Dr. Collins, the head of the NIH. Here's Lamar Alexander, a Republican senator from Tennessee on Anthony Fauci. "Dr. Fauci is one of our country's most distinguished public servants. He has served six presidents, starting with Ronald Reagan. If more Americans paid attention to his advice, we'd have fewer cases of COVID-19, and it would be safer to go back to school and back to work and out to eat." So, there you have a senior Republican also taking issue saying the president is wrong. My question is when the president has asked this question, Fauci gave a "60 Minutes" interview. He batted the president into this. He gave a "60 Minutes" interview. The president gets mad. If the president was disciplined as a candidate, he would say I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about Joe Biden's tax plan. I want to talk about whatever in the campaign, but he can't.</s>HARWOOD: Absolutely he can't. The president, first of all, is not disciplined. We saw that in the debate a couple of weeks ago. Probably going to help him in the debate that they're muting his microphone because he hurt himself - his performance last time. But look, Lamar Alexander is obviously correct. And the Trump campaign itself has told us that he's correct by including Tony Fauci in Donald Trump's campaign advertising. Why did they include Tony Fauci? It's because Americans believe Tony Fauci. But the president at this point is trying to affirm his own world view, reassure himself that he is not bungled this. And so he's talking to people within a bubble that is separate from the facts and reality of the situation.</s>KING: John Harwood at the White House. John, appreciate the reporting and the insights. Joining our conversation now, we continue on this subject. Our CNN medical analyst and a former Baltimore City health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen. Dr. Wen, it's great to see you. In a sense, you know this isn't the end of a campaign. So, people just say, oh, it's just politics. Everyone is talking politics. But when you look at the case count right now and you look at the trajectory, and you look at all the states with a high positivity rate, some of them remarkably high, it's critically important that people watching at home understand who can I trust. So, I want to start by this is Dr. Collins again, the NIH director, who without getting deeper in the politics as you may be hearing conflicting voices. Here, I think you should listen to these people.</s>COLLINS (via telephone): Trust the public health experts. They don't really have an axe to grind. Trust CDC. Trust Fauci. Trust the folks at the FDA who are trying to do their jobs. They don't have any particular reason to spin the information. Consider the source. If you're trying to get public health information, it's probably good to listen to a public health expert.</s>KING: What is remarkable, and you're a public health expert, so I'm grateful again to have you here to help us sort through the spin, if you will, because that's the director of the National Institute of Health essentially saying don't trust the president.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Right. I mean, public health entirely hinges on public trust and specifically trust in our top government scientists. In a pandemic we're asking people to do things that they normally would not do, even something like mask wearing. The American people didn't regularly wear masks prior to all this. Or contact tracing. Answering your phone and letting people know about all the individuals that you were in contact with or quarantine for 14 days after exposure. I mean these are all difficult things to do. And the work of public health is challenging enough as it is. Then what that message is actually undermined by our top elected officials including the president. It makes our work many, many times harder. And I think we can directly attribute the implementation mask wearing, the inability of people to abide by basic public health guidelines to what happens when there is that misleading message. And frankly, it is costing us many thousands - tens of thousands of lives.</s>KING: The numbers on the screen are just I don't know what to call beyond depressing, 8.2 million cases in the United States, 220,000 deaths and counting up. You mentioned who do you trust. It is interesting at this moment because we are two weeks away from a presidential campaign. People are already voting. But we count the votes two weeks from today. The case count is heading up and looks like it's going to pass the summer surge which was horrific enough. And it looks like we're heading up past that. Listen to the secretary of Health and Human Services. Unlike the president -- the president says we're rounding the corner. The president says tough it out. The president says we will be fine. The secretary of Health and Human Services says everybody needs to think about this as we head into Thanksgiving and the holidays.</s>ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We've seen a great deal of community spread from household gatherings. You can get disease from people that you're related to, as well as from people you are friends with, as well as from neighbors, and you can transmit too. We have to carry forward being careful with each other right now even as we enter the holiday season.</s>KING: That's a straightforward, fact-based message from the secretary of Health and Human Services. But we do not hear that from the president as he travels the country in these packed rallies.</s>WEN: Right. I mean, imagine what could be done if the president had, instead of attacking Dr. Fauci and public health, imagine what would happen if he were to say to people, look, it's so important for everyone to be wearing masks. We could literally be saving tens of thousands of lives if the president spread that kind of message. And Secretary Azar is correct that the latest surge that we're seeing is a lot of it is being driven by gatherings of family and friends, extended family and friends. And I'm really worried about this in particular as we head into holiday season, when the weather is colder, that many more people be gathering indoors. And I think it's unnatural for us to think this way, right? It's unnatural for us to think all those people that we love and trust, could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer. This is a virus that if we're not going to be inviting strangers into our house, we should also not be inviting loved ones into our house either because they could very well be carrying the virus and infecting us. And so, I would actively encourage everyone at this point even though the federal government should absolutely be doing much more and it is the failure of the federal government's response that we're in this position but we have to protect ourselves. So make sure not to gather indoors, unless they're with your immediate household to keep up with mask wearing and social distancing.</s>KING: Dr. Wen as always grateful for your advice and insights. Thank you.</s>WEN: Thank you.</s>KING: Ahead for us, the final debate. The second and final debate is Thursday night. And there will be a new feature. The mute button.

Debate Commission to Mute Microphones During Two Minute Statements

KING: The president spends most of his time these days talking at his rallies or on Fox News, which is to say largely talking to people who are already in his corner. To mount a 2020 comeback, the president needs to pick up people who are still undecided and to peel away people planning to vote for Joe Biden. Which makes Thursday's second and final debate a high stakes affair for both candidates. There will be a new twist this time. The debate commission says it plans to use the mute button. So, the candidate gets the full two minutes they are allowed to answer questions. That is in response of course to the president's constant interruptions in the first debate. He was the one ignoring the format. He was the one ignoring his campaign's agreement with the commission. But that isn't the president from trying to play victim.</s>TRUMP (via telephone): Look, these people are not good people, this commission. A lot of funny things go on with them. But I do it this way. I mean, I do it anyway. But this is the way it is. It's so set up. It's pretty incredible that we've been winning for so long.</s>KING: Joining me now is CNN political correspondent Abby Phillip and Matt Viser, national political reporter for "The Washington Post." If the president has a bad night, ladies and gentlemen, it has to be rigged, right? Somebody has to be acting against him. Abby, it is interesting though, the commission is not really changing the format. It's just saying it's going to use the technology at its disposal, including the mute button. And then it says in announcing this decision, the candidate gets a question, it will give them the full two minutes to answer. Meaning, the other guy's mike will be muted. The commission says, "We realize, after discussions with both campaigns, that neither campaign may be totally satisfied with the measures announced today. One may think they go too far, and one may think they do not go far enough. We are comfortable with these actions strike the right balance and that they are in the interest of the American people, for whom these debates are held." It is a process argument but it's an important process argument because the president did just blow through the rules in the first debate.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it's an impossible situation that the commission was put in, largely because of the president's behavior in the first debate. And so, they knew that by doing this they would inviting this kind of criticism. But the reality is that this shouldn't even have to happen because the rules are that you get two minutes to answer your question and then there is an opportunity for the candidates to engage with each other, to talk to each other or even over each other in some ways if that's what the situation calls for. But, you know, part of this is that -- I think the strategy at this point is what you just said. Playing the victim. The president says he's winning. But he's been complaining that everything is rigged against him. And that is part of the strategy. It's a base strategy. But it's not actually one that I think really helps him in the context of this debate on Thursday.</s>KING: And Matt, there's an old conversation in politics, if you are whining, you are not winning. And the president is doing a lot of whining right now about the rules, about the moderator, about the polls, about a lot of things. Our polling team, our political team did a great job. They have gone through these 10 states that we view as the battleground states. And they've averaged all the recent polls. So, you don't invest in just one poll. Here are three of them here. There are 10 in all we've look at. Seven have close races, in these three, these are the former blue wall states that President Trump flipped in 2016. You see Biden above 50 in Pennsylvania, above 50 in Michigan. Above 50 in Wisconsin. The president stuck at 43 percent in all three of them. This debate as the president many would believe, last chance if you're going to have a national dynamic to change the national dynamic and what has been a national race. Those three states essentially staring down the president right now.</s>MATT VISER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": He needs a big game changing moment. Which is why frankly he can whine about the rules, but he doesn't have all that much leverage. Because he needs this debate much more than Joe Biden needs this debate. If circumstances stay as they are currently. And two weeks is a long time in politics, so a lot can change. But if they stay as they are currently, all indications are that Joe Biden is in the enviable situation, as you elude to the polls, those state and national polls, the Biden campaign at this moment feels quite good about the current circumstances. So, the debate is an important moment for Trump. And for him to have some sort of moment where -- that the contours of this race and the way that we're looking at it right now are changed and changed quite dramatically. And I think Democrats at this moment, you know, they feel comfortable. But, you know, there is a little bit of deja vu looking back four years ago, feeling a similar feeling that people are feeling now where their candidate is in the lead.</s>KING: Right. And then that is -- Democrats are spooked. They're haunted by 2016. They simply are. And so, you look at those 10 battleground states, Abby, and again, seven of them are pretty close. Biden has a chance to win them all, there's a chance to lose them all in those seven. So, part of this is a strategy decision. They have money to be on television everywhere. But in terms of what they emphasize most, you have a gold bold strategy which says send them to Texas. Send them to Georgia. Go back to Arizona a couple of times, or you have a play safe strategy which says Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, maybe a little Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. Which will they choose?</s>PHILLIP: It seems that they're choosing the fundamentals. The Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. I mean if you look at the map, and John, I know you do this because you're always at the magic wall. But look at the map. Joe Biden if he secures Pennsylvania, his path is dramatically easier. It is much easier for him to get to 270. The same is true if President Trump secures Florida. His path becomes dramatically easier. So, deviating from that strategy would not make any sense, particularly for the Biden campaign. Yes, it would be great to play in Georgia, to play in Texas, to play in Ohio. But they don't have to do any of those things in order to win. And what they can do, because they are in a -- in the enviable situation financially is they can spend money on ads here and there. They can test the waters. They can send surrogates. They can send virtual surrogates given the coronavirus situation. But it's all about Pennsylvania. If you're in the Biden campaign right now, it's about holding out of those midwestern states and making sure that you have Pennsylvania in your column and then this ride is a lot easier come November 3rd.</s>KING: 20 electoral votes. You hold that big basket, makes it harder for everybody else. And Matt, you write about this in the paper today. Democrats are spooked. In part of it what thinks they're spooked about disinformation, misinformation, late surge in social media, you write about this effort internally called the "Malarkey Factory," dozens of people around the country monitoring what information is gaining traction digitally whether it's resonating with swing voters. And if so, how to fight back. The three most (INAUDIBLE the tax, the "Malarkey Factory" has confronted so far, claims Biden is a socialist, that he's creepy, sleepy or senile. Explain how this works. And these is obviously part of Democrats remembering 2016. And those states we just talked about, they changed late in part because of Trump activity and other activity, nefarious activity on social media.</s>VISER: Yes, The Biden campaign is very well aware of that. And so, over the last two months they pretty quietly built up this multi- million dollar effort that involves dozens of people around the country involved with the campaign and other Democratic consulting firms called the "Malarkey Factory" where they are trying to identify things early that are trending on Twitter or Facebook. And sort of address them or fit in that there's a big challenge in figuring out which things to address and which things to address and which things to let slide and not amplify. So, they're doing this throughout the campaign. They also have 5,000 different followers, big influencers on Twitter and Facebook, who are responding to some of these attacks on behalf of the campaign. But it's a major lesson from 2016. And the Biden campaign seems very well aware of that. And particularly heading into the election, when Facebook restricts the new ads that campaigns can take out they're going to be relying on a lot of these surrogates to fight back if there is misinformation, either from the Trump campaign or from foreign actors. I think the Biden campaign is monitoring both of those through this constellation of groups and staffers.</s>KING: And for folks who only tune in for politics late in the campaign, "Malarkey" is going to make a comeback if Biden wins the presidency. It will be one of the many Bidenisms were. Abby Phillip, Matt Viser, appreciate the reporting and the insights. Up next for us, as we noted President Trump is about to go to Pennsylvania. That state right now reporting a big surge in coronavirus cases.

Fox Host Peddles Baseless, Outrageous Smear Against Biden & Conspiracy Theories

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS HOST: Then you had China throw the curveball at you with the virus. Democrat mayors and governors refusing to stop crime and vandalism. This is all your first term.</s>BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That wind up ended with his hard-hitting question.</s>BARTIROMO: What was most difficult and most surprising for you in this last three and a half years, Mr. President?</s>KEILAR: Then Maria Bartiromo fueled the president's favorite attack line, on Biden's health.</s>BARTIROMO: Mr. President, I have reported on FOX Business before that my medical sources have told me that Joe Biden had two brain aneurysms. Not one but two brain aneurysms. I pray to God it's not true. But my medical sources are solid on this, that he has had two brain aneurysms. I hope he's OK. Do you believe that he should be disclosing that?</s>KEILAR: Maria, it is true, because Joe Biden revealed that he suffered aneurysms decades ago. Maybe one of Maria Bartiromo's medical sources is the Biden campaign Web site. Click. It's all on there. Two aneurysms in the 1980s. And 2014 brain imaging giving him an all-clear. But go on.</s>BARTIROMO: There's this movement now in the media trying to get Joe Biden to not debate you.</s>KEILAR: Trump pulled out of the second debate ensuring Joe Biden would not debate Trump. Check out this line of questioning:</s>BARTIROMO: Can you explain why the Department of Defense has set up a UFO Task Force? Mr. President, as we wrap up here, are there UFOs?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll I'll have to check on that. I mean, I've heard that. I heard that two days ago. So I'll check on that. I'll take a good, strong look at that.</s>KEILAR: Threw that one in there just because. Of course, Maria Bartiromo wouldn't be a FOX host without a book plug.</s>BARTIROMO: You told me, you told me for my book, when we did the interview for my book, that there are people in government that are just protective.</s>BARTIROMO: -- a couple of weeks ago -- you and I had a meeting a couple of weeks ago for my upcoming book --</s>KEILAR: And the endings of her interviews always greasing the hinges of the Oval Office door.</s>BARTIROMO: Mr. President, thank you so much for the time this morning. Thanks for your leadership, sir.</s>BARTIROMO: Well, I'd like to come back to the White House soon to do another interview, Mr. President.</s>TRUMP: We'll do that for you.</s>BARTIROMO: I'd like to come back to the White House.</s>KEILAR: I'm sure that can be arranged. And ahead, stimulus stalemate on Capitol Hill. Tonight's deadline is fast approaching. Find out what both sides are saying about the negotiations, next.

Judge Says Breonna Taylor Grand Juror Can Speak Publicly; Clock Ticks on Deadline Tonight for COVID Stimulus Deal; Sensing Loss, GOP Senators Keep Distance from Trump & Ponder Future; Update on Coronavirus Responses Across the Country

KEILAR: We have breaking news. A big development in the case of Breonna Taylor. A judge ruling that a grand juror in the case is allowed to speak publicly about the previously secret proceedings. I want to get to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz with details on this. We've been wondering if this grand juror would be successful, Shimon. It appears they have been.</s>SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They have been. And the judge there, in basically saying that the veil of secrecy on these grand jury proceedings needed to be lifted, that it was in the interest of citizens, and that, quote, "the ends of justice require disclosure." Let me -- within minutes of this judge's ruling, this juror -- this juror is still anonymous, it's grand juror number one -- released a statement through their lawyer. And it's really striking. I think people need to understand how unprecedented something like this, for a grand juror to take this kind of action to come out and publicly speak about something that they disagree. And when you read this statement, which I'm going to go ahead and read to you in a second, you understand why this grand juror did this. And what this grand juror says is that, "Questions were asked about additional charges and the grand jury was told there would be none because the prosecutors didn't feel they could make them stick." The grand juror also says that, "They didn't agree that certain actions were justified, nor did it decide that the indictment should be the only charges in the Breonna Taylor case." "The grand jury was not given the opportunity to deliberate on those charges and deliberated only on what was presented to them." And the juror writes, "I cannot speak for other jurors, but I can help the truth be told." That's been the big question here: Exactly what did the attorney general present to the grand jurors in this case? He did admit that the only charges he did present to this grand juror -- to this grand jury was those wanton endangerment charges. Of course, I was out there. We were on the air as this was --</s>KEILAR: Just to be clear, Shimon --</s>PROKUPECZ: Yes.</s>KEILAR: -- wanton endangerment charges that had nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death.</s>PROKUPECZ: That's right.</s>KEILAR: These were wanton endangerment charges that had to do with bullets from an officer that went into an adjacent apartment to Breonna Taylor where it would have endangered other people, not her life.</s>PROKUPECZ: That's right. That's right. None of the charges that have been brought against the former Detective Hankison have anything to do with the death of Breonna Taylor. And that was the big controversy in all of this. You can see by reading this statement from this grand juror that they wanted to consider these other charges. They actually -- based on this statement, I'm mystified whether or not they were ever given the opportunity. And in reading this, you can see why these jurors have all of these questions now. Because also, they argue that the attorney general, when he came out and publicly spoke about this case in that press conference, he wasn't truthful. He didn't give all the facts. That is what this juror is ultimately saying that we were never given the opportunity to consider what we thought we should consider, the law, the crime. They were never explained any of the homicide offenses. They were never explained any of the self-defense offenses and how maybe perhaps they wouldn't charge any of these officers because there was a claim of self-defense. Simple what this juror writes. And this is pretty much -- this is just unprecedented, Brianna, in the sense that this juror says that basically that prosecutors didn't bring any of these other charges or have them consider it, because they didn't think that it would stick. Ultimately, part of this is what happens is prosecutors need to bring charges they think they can ultimately prove in a court of law. And perhaps that could be their argument here from the prosecutors. But this is just an unprecedented step in this entire investigation.</s>KEILAR: Yes. Kentucky A.G., Daniel Cameron, didn't make that clear at his initial press conference. It really -- a lot of this was put on the grand jury about what they did and did not return. And really, they weren't given all of the options, it sounds like the grand juror is saying. Thank you so much, Shimon, for that report.</s>PROKUPECZ: Thanks.</s>KEILAR: We appreciate it. We are now just hours away from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's deadline to reach a stimulus deal. Hanging in the balance, millions of Americans who desperately need relief. After months of debate, Speaker Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin still need to resolve significant policy disputes if they want to pass a relief bill before November 3rd. The two are expected to speak in minutes. President Trump weighed in this morning, saying he'd like a bigger stimulus deal than even Democrats want.</s>TRUMP (voice-over): I want to do it even bigger than the Democrats. Not every Republican agrees with me but they will. But I want to do it even bigger than the Democrats, because this is money going to people that did not deserve what happened to them coming out of China. Now, to just put it very simply. We want to do it, but Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to do it.</s>KEILAR: CNN's senior congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is on Capitol Hill for us. Where do the talks stand, Manu? Is there reason for people who need help to be hopeful at this point?</s>MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're still ongoing. It's still going to be difficult to get anything accomplished before Election Day just because of the significant differences that are still outstanding between the two side. Nancy Pelosi has said they have come closer on some sticking points such as the amount of money to be provided for testing for the coronavirus, with contact tracing. But there's a whole host of other issues, liability protections for businesses the Republicans want, state and local money that the Democrats want, tax provisions of workers that Democrats are pushing for. So there are a whole wide range of issues, including spending issues that would be part of this massive package, roughly $2 trillion or so is the ballpark in which they are still negotiating. And there's so many details that they have to resolve. And then you have the issue about the Republicans, whether they or not they are on the same page. Senate Republicans are not comfortable with going to the levels the president is talking about, around the $2 trillion range. Now just moments ago, Mitch McConnell did make some news. He indicated that if deal were reached between Senate Republicans, between the administration and Nancy Pelosi, he would at least put it on the Senate floor for a vote.</s>SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I'm aware that discussions continue between the president and the speaker about a larger package. Obviously, if that were to come over, we'd have to consider it and would consider it. If a presidentially supported bill clears the House, at some point we'll bring it to the floor, yes.</s>RAJU: So I asked him: What about that price tag, $1.8 trillion, $2 trillion, that the president is saying he wants a bigger deal? McConnell pointedly would not say if he was comfortable with anything in that price range. So even, Brianna, if this deal is reached, so many more hurdles about getting it across the finish line and onto the president's desk in just two weeks -- Brianna?</s>KEILAR: And I know, Manu, you have some new reporting how Republican lawmakers are preparing for Election Day?</s>RAJU: Yes, a lot of Republicans are fearful that the president is poised to lose on Election Day looking at polls. A number of them say they still believe he can pull it off. But already a debate ongoing within the Republican Party about what exactly a post-Trump world would look like. Some saying they need to go back to that more moderate image, court younger voters, court more women voters. Others say they need to dig into the president's populous style of governing and campaigning and they should go back to those old ways. A number of Republicans I've talked to on the Hill are talking about that. And some are also concerned about the president's message on the run up to Election Day, his attacks on Anthony Fauci, calling Joe Biden a criminal. John Thune, the number-two Republican, told me, "I would like to see in the closing days of the campaign him prosecute the argument against the Democrats and the differences in policies." He says, "Quit attacking the media. Stay away from personal attacks. Quit attacking Fauci. And focus on issues." And, Brianna, one Republican who has been critical of the president, Mitt Romney, does not plan to support the president. But of course, was the presidential nominee in 2012. Told me that, "I think our party is in trouble with young people, increasingly with older people, with minorities and those young people we are in trouble with five years ago, now are voting. So we've got some work to do." So already, Brianna, the election is not here yet, the president could still win, but the party is bracing for potential loss and debating how to move ahead in case that happens -- Brianna?</s>KEILAR: Yes, and the damage with those groups is not the kind that you just undo overnight. We're seeing, Manu, for instance, vulnerable Republicans start to distance themselves from President Trump. If he does lose, do you see in a way that sort of internal debate that you were talking about playing out as a schism in the Republican Party?</s>RAJU: Yes, no question about it. One Senator, Josh Hawley, of Missouri, says he still thinks the president will win but he said there's going to be, quote, "there's going to be a fight within the party no matter what happens." He is not on the side of the people like Mitt Romney. He says they should not go back to trade without limits, should not side with Wall Street in this view. In other words, don't endorse those pro-business policies that really have been the hallmark of Republican policies for so many years, before President Trump came to office. And you'll see that debate play out. Most of the people that were thinking of running for the White House in 2024 and as Republicans comes to grips, particularly they find themselves in the Senate minority, how do they restructure themselves as a minority, post-Trump. So a lot will -- that debate, Brianna, will happen. And it will happen intensely, both publicly and privately, should the president go down on November 3rd -- Brianna?</s>KEILAR: All right. Manu Raju, thank you so much. Up next, Mississippi's second surge. First, it was big cities. Now outbreaks are popping up in rural America. And experts say race is playing a key role. Plus, a significant step in reopening Disneyland. Employees say they are ready to return to work but this is not a done deal just yet.

Georgia Early Voting "Setting Records with Each Passing Hour".

KEILAR: Thousands of Georgians are still going to the polls, setting new early voting records. State election officials say pre-election voter turnout is up 142 percent. And they're predicting more than two million early votes could be cast. CNN's Amara Walker is in Atlanta with more on Georgia's record turnout.</s>AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, it is day nine of early voting and Georgia voters are continuing to turn out in record numbers. As of 8:00 p.m. Monday, nearly 1.7 million early votes had been cast in person or via absentee. That's according to the secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger. Compare this to this time in 2016 when about 700,000 ballots had been cast. That's a 142 percent increase in total turnout. Georgia also seeing a 640 percent increase in the number of absentee ballots that have been accepted so far. Now, reports of those hours-long wait times have gone down as well. Raffensperger says the band width issues related to the electronic poll pads that check in voters have been fully fixed -- Brianna?</s>KEILAR: All right, Amara Walker, thank you so much. After a chaotic first debate, a presidential health crisis, a controversial debate cancellation and competing town halls, Joe Biden and Donald Trump will face off one last time. The final presidential debate is coming. And special live coverage starts Thursday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. And our special coverage today continues now with Jake Tapper.

Trump Campaign Ad: Biden "Has No Plan To Defeat The Coronavirus"; Trump Repeatedly Questioned How Effective Masks Are At Stopping COVID Spread

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: As more and more people head inside to family gatherings as well, cold and the holidays. The president treks to Pennsylvania today, a big battleground key to his 2016 win. But a state which he currently right now is trailing and consistently so. It is impossible to separate the campaign from the Coronavirus. Just look at the numbers. They show us a resurge in virus, virus voters picking the president whole will manage this pandemic response come January. Across the country, orange and red are bad, and you see right there a lot of orange and red. 31 states right now recording more cases this week compared to last week. 18 states treading water, meaning holding steady. Only one, Hawaii making measurable progress right now. Monday, 58,000 plus new infections. That is the worst Monday since July 20th. July 20th being at the peak of the summer surge the country added 400,000 infections to the case count in just the last week. The daily average of cases nationwide now north of 58,000. And Monday, 16 states, you see them highlighted there, 16 states recording their highest daily average of new cases across this pandemic. The public health message crystal clear. The United States "Never got over the first wave" that according to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. It's just not safe to have Thanksgiving as normal, the public health experts say. And we won't know until the end of November at the earliest if a Coronavirus vaccine will work or not. Yet, despite all that, despite the rising case count, despite rising positivity, the president's message, stay the course.</s>BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: What is the plan to live with it while steadily staying safe from it?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, we are living with it and we're having the vaccines coming out very soon. With or without the vaccines, we are rounding the turn. We will never shut down.</s>KING: Joining our conversation to start the hour, Margaret Talev from AXIOS and CNN's Dana Bash. Margaret, I want to start with you and I want to listen here to Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health. The president wants the Supreme Court nominee confirmed. He says, the president is elected for four full years. He is. It's an argument he can make. But there's a pandemic in the country right now. If the president was elected for four full years, listen to Dr. Collins, why isn't he doing his job?</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: We have not met with the president in quite some time. I think the president primarily is getting his information from the vice president, from Dr. Atlas. There's not a direct connection between the task force members and the president as there was a few months ago, but this seems to be a different time with different priorities.</s>KING: There's a pandemic in the country. You see the numbers on your screen. 8.2 million cases in the United States, 220,000 deaths and counting, and the president doesn't want to meet with the experts.</s>MARGARET TALEV, POLITICS AND WHITE HOUSE EDITOR, AXIOS: Yes. John, you're hearing the president in these closing arguments that he's making in these crucial battleground states, really rein into the idea that the scientists are wrong, he's right, that somehow if you listen to scientists, there would be more casualties or at least the economy would be a mess. In particular, we've seen him focusing on Dr. Fauci who ironically is like the most trusted public health official in the country, so you might think why is the president doing that. But if you look at it more closely, you can see in polling over the last month or so that among Republicans in particular, there's really declining trust in Fauci, even though the rest of the country thinks he's still the person to listen to, the voice to be trusted. And so, the president is as we know driving into his base. He is attempting to maximally turnout his base and to depress turnout of people who are either voting for Joe Biden or might be voting for Joe Biden. And that's where we are seeing this strategy address right now.</s>KING: Right. But it's just such an interesting moment, Dana, in that Tony Fauci does a CBS 60 minutes interview, since then the president has been taking the bait and answering questions about him. It's Trump versus Biden on the ballot, but listen to the president again yet today, it might as well be Trump versus Science.</s>TRUMP: The only thing I say is he's a little bit sometimes not a team player. But, he is a Democrat and I think that he's just fine. It's a view, we have others. Scott Atlas is fantastic, but they go after him so much, he has a different view. By the way, everybody has a different view. Different views are everything.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.</s>TRUMP: Doesn't mean they're wrong or they're bad people. But people have different views.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But to be clear Mr. President--</s>TRUMP: And ultimately, I make the decisions.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.</s>TRUMP: And we've saved millions of lives by the decisions I've made.</s>KING: So Tony Fauci is a Democrat, Scott Atlas is fantastic. Tony Fauci is an Infectious Disease Expert, Scott Atlas is a Radiologist who says don't wear a mask.</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENCE: An up is down and right is left. And we can continue this for the rest of the hour. Look, I have been talking to a lot of Republicans about this, because I frankly as a reporter have been trying to figure out is he being crazy like a fox here, he the president. Is he trying to do something that he thinks will work? And a lot of times things that he does that seem completely farfetched at the time do have some grain, maybe like one little grain of benefit for him politically, because that's all we're talking about here, right, just the benefit for him politically.</s>BASH: I haven't found anybody who said the answer is yes. And yes, I've talked to people who are close to him, who know him, members of congress. And I have not found anybody who has said you know what, this is actually, here's the secret sauce and what you're not seeing here. No. One of the people who knows him well said remember the following about Donald Trump. He has no impulse control and it is all about him. And when you saw that interview with 60 minutes with Fauci saying that he thought that the White House event was a super spreader and he covered his eyes, and he couldn't believe what he was seeing, that set the president off. Having said that, John, there is a segment of the population that Margaret was talking about who tend to think that everybody in Washington, including Anthony Fauci, they don't get what they're going through. And the president is clearly trying to appeal to them much like he did in 2016 and get out that vote as much as possible.</s>KING: The question is, is it enough votes, Margaret? And one piece of evidence that suggest to me that the campaign knows this, maybe the president doesn't know this, but the campaign has for months. And the president's remarks tried to shove the Coronavirus to the side, make it about something else, make it about the Democrats, make it about Joe Biden, and make it about the economy. They don't have an economy to run on anymore, and they haven't been able to make it about Joe Biden yet. So look at this new Trump Campaign that Coronavirus front and center.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Biden has no real plan to defeat the Coronavirus, just criticize, complain, and surrender. President Trump is leading, attacking the virus head on, and developing a vaccine in record time.</s>KING: So a couple of important things there. Number one, the president wearing a mask repeatedly in the ad. The president does not wear a mask repeatedly in life, only in his TV ads does he do it. But he says Joe Biden doesn't have a plan. You can disagree with if you want, but you go to the Biden website, he does have a plan. He has a plan to make free testing widely available to establish the public health jobs core to use defense production act to do more PPE. Invest 25 billion in vaccine; create COVID-19 Racial Ethnic Disparities Task Force. Restore relationship of the world class organization. You don't have to like any of those things Margaret, but what the president's campaign is saying in that ad is just simply a lie. And this is what they do, this is what he did in 2016. They don't like me, so drag down the other guy so if voters view us all is the same mess.</s>TALEV: The campaign is trying something here that Trump himself won't try in the rallies and AXIOS and our polling partners IPSOS have been tracking Coronavirus behavior and reactions for several months. And what our latest findings these are just out today show is that, increasingly the public, including Republicans are rejecting some of the president's theories around Hydroxychloroquine or suggesting that mask don't really reduce transmission. And then what it adds up to and this has been particular problem with women, with independents and with senior citizens. So what it adds up to is that, since the president himself became sick, became Coronavirus, COVID-19 positive, since then these Americans and voters are saying that they are less able to trust him to give them good information. Now that doesn't mean they won't vote for him, but it does mean that it is harder for him to steer around the pandemic issue or to change the way the pandemic is viewed.</s>KING: Right. And so Dana, you have this thing and look, the president is good at this some time. So you have to give whether you support him or not, he is good sometimes at creating a different ads but you see him repeatedly in that ad wearing a mask, he is trying to get the American people to simply forget this.</s>TRUMP: I think wearing a fake mask as a great president, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know, somehow I don't see it for myself. And I don't agree with the statement, that if everybody wear a mask, everything get disappears. A lot of people don't want to wear a mask. So a lot of people think that masks are not good.</s>KING: Four of the top five states in the United States of America right now in terms of the highest positivity rate for Coronavirus testing today, four of the top five states that do not have a mask mandate.</s>BASH: Right. I mean, you can believe what he says or you can believe what's in front of your eyes. And the answer is, you should believe what's in front of your eyes. And just basic common sense that we have developed over the past six months thanks to the researchers and scientists, and virologists that have figured out that mask wearing does help. It allows for even remote normalcy, the kind that the president says that, the people who are really hurting economically and otherwise, never mind with their health are not understanding and they're not understood. Well, they could be understood if the president was consistent in the mask wearing message, not just in their paid advertising targeted to people who maybe aren't seeing the clips that you just played, but it's about the most inconsistent and frankly flagrant example of a leader not doing a basic thing than we've ever seen. And again, we talked about this last week.</s>BASH: Just look at Chris Christie, the guy who helped him get ready for his debate. He did not wear a mask in the White House Rose Garden, he did not wear a mask inside debate prep. He got COVID, he was in the ICU for a week, and he came out and said, I was wrong, wear a mask.</s>KING: Right.</s>TALEV: But I think there is - that is - that there are many Republicans and some independents who we know this anecdotally, we also know it from polling who are saying, they don't agree with what the president is doing on Coronavirus, they don't like it, they think it's the wrong advice. But they may still vote for him, because they like his approach on taxes or because they're concerned that Biden would usher in a more liberal era. And I don't think there's any argument that you can make that says that the president's general Coronavirus messaging is helping him. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it will cost him the election. And that's where we are two weeks out.</s>KING: That is where we are two weeks out. Margaret Talev, Dana Bash, I appreciate the insights and to that very point. When we come back there are most polls show Biden comfortably ahead. Any cracks, anything to suggest the Trump come back is about to begin. We'll break that down with our pollsters next.

COVID Surges Two Weeks Away From November Election; Poll: Biden Has Higher Favorability Compared To 2016 Clinton

KING: Two weeks from today, we count the votes, we start to fill this in, and Trump versus Biden might take us more than one night to count them all. But two weeks from now, we start to fill them in. Let's go back in time and look at where we are in the race right now as we discuss it. Remember what happened four years ago. Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote with 48 percent. Donald Trump trails, but he wins the presidency because of the Electoral College. Let me bring up some numbers just to show you a little bit of difference in the race right now. Where are we right now? This is our CNN poll of polls, this averages out the five most recent national polls. Joe Biden at 53, Donald Trump at 42. So in a 11 point national lead right now for Joe Biden heading into the final two weeks. Well, how does that compare? Let's take a look, let's bring this up. Let me shrink it down for you. Couple of important things to note here. Number one, Hillary Clinton was at 47 percent back then, President Trump at 41. So six point Clinton lead, notably though Clinton under 50, Joe Biden above 50. Why? Because the third party candidates were getting a bigger chunk of the vote four years ago, the libertarian candidate, the green party candidate. So, Joe Biden above 50, Donald Trump is at 41 at this point four years ago. He is at 42 essentially at the same place right now. Let's start the conversation there with our two pollsters, Republican Pollster, Neil Newhouse joins us, Democratic Pollster, Margie Omero. Margie, if you're a Democrat, you're looking at this right now, that's a distinction I see in the national polls. We'll go state by state in a minute, look at some historical dynamics. But if you're looking at the national polls, the Biden is above 50 at this point, how significant is that?</s>MARGIE OMERO, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Well, for an incumbent to be below 50, that's always a sign of vulnerability. Because you have people now voting on the record that President Trump has. Last time it was an open seat. You had two non-incumbents. And so, people were trying to assess which candidate they thought would do a better job. Now you have a president who has been underwater since the day he took office. And so, this is very much a referendum on him and his performance which relative to Biden is not going very well, because if you look at the "New York Times Poll" all the different traits, who would you trust more on this issue, on that issue. Biden is very strong beneath the surface and that's why you see him over 50 and not the incumbent over 50.</s>KING: Right. And Neil, to that point, we're right now in the early stages of another up the hill in terms of the Coronavirus we're heading up towards a third peak in the country. And if you look at the Coronavirus right now, it's front and center on every American's life. So it's obviously front and center of the campaign. The president's handling of this over time. These are NBC, Wall Street Journal numbers was disapprove 51 percent back in March, it is disapprove 57 percent now. So nearly 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of how the incumbent President of the United States has handled the biggest issue in the country right now. How with two weeks do you change that or can you?</s>NEIL NEWHOUSE, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: John, I don't think you try to change it. I think you focus on the economy. The Coronavirus numbers aren't going to change overnight. I think if you - can you, you pass that stimulus which is the current "New York Times" poll shows is so popular and you move on. You're not going to prep those other numbers, you focus on the economy. The key here is all those comparative numbers between Biden and Trump, they're not that different than the numbers four years ago between Trump and Hillary Clinton, and yet Trump still came out ahead. John, one thing you want to know is the polling we've gotten over the last couple days on individual Senate and congressional campaigns that we're involved in have all shown a little bit of a bump up for the president. This race is beginning to tighten a little bit. Now whether there's enough time left, I don't know, but it feels like it's tightening.</s>KING: But let's switch maps as we have that conversation then. Because part of it is that just Republican DNA, people have been waiting on the fence to come back in or are it a significant shift. That's what makes the debate Thursday night so important. But this is where we are in terms of the race to 270. Dark blue solid Biden, light blue, lean Biden saying dark blue, solid Trump, light blue, lean Trump. We've got Joe Biden already over the finish line Margie with 290 electoral votes, the president at 163. But there is a lot of - the toss up states on the ballot here, if the president can win all of those and he won them all back in 2016, that would put him back in play. But here is one thing that is different. Neil thinks there's a tightening perhaps happening out there in the country. One thing that's different is favorable, unfavorable. If you go back and look, Hillary Clinton, 46 percent favorable view of her if you go back at this point in 2016. 52 percent unfavorable. It's a flip if you will. Joe Biden is above water. 53 percent favorable, 43 percent unfavorable. Heading into the last debate, we expect the president to be quite aggressive in trying to change those numbers. What does Joe Biden need to do?</s>OMERO: I mean, what he has been doing is, and he has been boosting his favorability. Usually anybody running for any kind of competitive office will emerge as they get closer to Election Day, their unfavorable role go up and they will just become a little bit less popular as the back and forth happens in any race. But if you look at the favorable minus unfavorable margin, Biden's actually improving, while Trump has stayed the same where he is.</s>OMERO: I mean, to go back to your original question though, John, where you said well, what should Democrats do when they're looking at the polls? Democrats should not look at the polls; Democrats should instead be volunteering, texting, voting, and calling, all of those things.</s>KING: Well, I should be listening to you two. But if course any voter should be listening to. So Neil, I'm going to go through a little scenario here. Look, these are the yellow states here, the gold, those are our toss ups. It's perfectly conceivable the president wins Iowa, he won it last time, it has Republican DNA. Perfectly conceivable the president picks up Ohio, Republican DNA. North Carolina is competitive, but the president could win it, he won it last time. Mitt Romney won it four years before that. Georgia, not since Bill Clinton way back in the days, so we'll give that to the president, and battleground Florida. Again it's very competitive. But even if I give all of those to the president and Maine second congressional district, let's for the fun of it just turn that - let's bring that out of it. We want to turn that red and turn this blue, bring this back, I messed that up a little bit. But if you look at this right now, even if that happens, you still have the president shy which tells me Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania and what else?</s>NEWHOUSE: And Wisconsin. Listen, this race, Wisconsin has significant Republican DNA. I think Pennsylvania, Wisconsin are the states you got to play in.</s>KING: Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Go ahead.</s>NEWHOUSE: But John, this comes out to a trial by battle. And the question if the Democrats were going to ask is, have they banked enough votes to overcome the Election Day turnout among Republicans, have they built their wall high enough? And we're not going to know really until Election Day.</s>KING: Election Day or maybe a day or two after as we count those votes and get the lawyers involved. Neil Newhouse, Margie Omera, grateful for your insights two weeks out from today. Up next for us, leadership in a time of crisis. Dr. Anthony Fauci and the lessons learned so far in this COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Anthony Fauci: "Nightmare" Scenario I Worried About For Years Has Happened.

KING: Dr. Anthony Fauci calls the president's attacks on him a distraction, and emphasizes he just wants to do his job. That job of course includes consistently speaking out since the very beginning of the Coronavirus crisis. Dr. Fauci telling us where we stand, how we got here, and what he thinks we need to do to get out of it? Still much to learn of course several months in, but a pandemic like this has been Dr. Fauci's fear for years.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALIERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: In an interview, I don't even know when, but something that you interviewed me 20 years ago, whenever it was, you asked me what keeps you up at night. What worries you? And if you go back, I told you, I said it's a respiratory borne illness. It may be influenza, but maybe it isn't influenza, that has a multiple characteristics. One, it's readily transmissible from human to human. And two, it has a high degree of morbidity and mortality. That's the nightmare that everybody who's in infectious disease is always worries about. And here we are in 2020, it's happened.</s>KING: That from one of many conversations Dr. Fauci has had with the gentleman you see right there, our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay joins us now. That's back at the beginning Sanjay, a little haunting.</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. No, April 1st that was and we are still learning things. But those were two of the ingredients that Dr. Fauci had been worried about for some time. And it's actually one of my first interviews ever John at CNN, almost 20 years ago, when I interviewed him about that. And he said look, if something is both contagious and lethal as a high degree of mortality, that's sort of the nightmare scenario. H1N1 was very contagious, but not very lethal. Sars, very lethal, but not very contagious. This was sort of both. And then there was another ingredient, John, which we really are learning about that point, and that has to do with the fact that people who didn't even have symptoms could spread this. That was a new ingredient in all this. Typically you're sick, you're coughing, you're sneezing, you stay home, you're less likely to spread. Asymptomatic spread became a significant component here. As you see John, 50 percent of the transmission likely occurs before symptoms. If you're not testing, you have no symptoms, you don't know. And that's been a real problem with this particular outbreak.</s>KING: And these many, many conversations you had with Dr. Fauci include one yesterday in which you were having a conversation about if there's a vaccine, who should be at the front of the line, and how eager should you or I be to try to get to the front of the line? Listen.</s>DR. GUPTA: There's going to be different versions of the vaccine. You're going to, like an iPhone10 or iPhone 11, that's the way somebody framed that question to me recently. But should everyone go and get the first iPhone? If they can, if they qualify, or would people be reasonable to say look, I'm going to wait for version two to come out, just likely to be more effective or safer, whatever.</s>DR. FAUCI: You'll see a hierarchy of recommendations of who should get the vaccine. And I think you have to factor into that how effective it is and what risk category you as an individual are in.</s>KING: What did you find most significant there?</s>DR. GUPTA: Well, everyone is talking about the vaccine as a single entity.

Trump Accuses Fauci Of Not Being Team Player Without Reason; Clock Ticks, Deadline For COVID Stimulus Deal

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: It's two years ago, but it's still pretty rare.</s>JOHN KING, CNN HOST: I think I'm supposed to root (ph) for rookie bets. Still hard though, Andy, still hard. Enjoy the games. Thanks for joining us today. I hope to see you back here this time tomorrow. Brianna Keilar picks up right now.</s>BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Brianna Keilar and, I want to welcome viewers here in the United States and around the world. Today, we're covering the coronavirus crisis in the hardest-hit country in the world which the president made clear last night he wants to ignore.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're getting tired of the pandemic, aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN, that's all they cover. COVID, COVID, pandemic, COVID, COVID. You know why, they're trying to talk everybody out of voting. People aren't buying it, CNN, you dumb bastards. They're not buying it. It's all they talk about.</s>KEILAR: There are 220,417 reasons to talk about coronavirus. There are nearly 60,000 cases per day in the U.S. and rising. The person whose response failed upon most objective measures is not fixing his government's approach to the crisis, instead he is suggesting we just ignore it. The president doesn't even regularly acknowledge the huge loss of life that we have experienced here in the last nine months. In fact, he has instead questioned whether the horrifying number is accurate. 220,000 dead, we cover COVID for them and the ones who they leave behind, forced to say goodbye through a phone screen.</s>MAUREEN LEWINGER, LSOT 42-YEAR-OLD-HUSBAND TO CORONAVIRUS: I thanked him. I thanked him for being the most amazing husband for making me feel cherished and loved every single day. Every single day my husband wrote me beautiful love letters in my lunch box, not just have a great day, but just beautiful letters about what I meant to him. I thanked him. I thanked him. And then I prayed and then the doctor took the phone and he said, I'm sorry, but there's no more pulse. And then I played our wedding song for him. And then that was it.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID for those who never got the chance to say goodbye.</s>NICHOLE BUCHANAN, HUSBAND DIED OF CORONAVIRUS: He was starting to decline because he did not have a horrible cough the whole time and the 22nd is when I brought him to the hospital and I never saw him again.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Skye, give your mom a hug for us right here. You dropped him off at the hospital. He went inside and they intubated him immediately. Did you have a chance to say goodbye?</s>N. BUCHANAN: No, they wouldn't let me in the hospital as he was begging that -- I need my wife, my wife makes my decisions. They told me to park the car. We thought that I was going to get to go in with him. And when I walked up to the doors, the hospital is on lockdown, they wouldn't let anybody in. After that, no, that was it, I never got to say, I love you, nothing.</s>SKYE BUCHANAN, FATHER DIED OF CORONAVIRUS: He would do ballet with me because we had like daddy daughter things at ballet sometimes. And I remember I was trying to take it really seriously and my dad dropped me and I got so upset. But then I started having fun and then we did this funny lift and it was really funny. And we just like shared everything. He brought me to school, he brought me to ballet, like he was my everything.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID for the children who bury their mother and then two weeks later their father.</s>ISAIAH GARCIA, BOTH PARENTS DIED FROM COVID-19: I didn't get to say goodbye to my mom or my dad now, and that's what hurts me the most right now. Since he passed, at least we got to be our family. We didn't have to go to an orphanage or anything.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID for the doctors, the nurses, the hospitals workers, the janitors forced to see the suffering that we don't see.</s>DR. ANDREW PASTEWSKI, ICU MEDICAL DIRECTOR, JACKSON SOUTH MEDICAL CENTER: One of the issues with the complacency in this country is that people really think it's just the old people in the nursing homes who are dying and that's just crazy. I mean, it's not old people in nursing homes that are just sitting there dying, it is the 82-year-old grandma who lives in the house, who takes care of the grandkids so that people can go to school so that the mother can work, who makes that special sauce. I have these people dying. These aren't 80-year-olds that should die. These aren't 80-year-olds that are going to die next week. These are 80-year-olds that contracted the virus because a group of people just didn't want to wear a mask and they had to go out and have fun. And it really upsets me when everybody says it is just old people and it's not a big deal. I had a mom and grandmother drive themselves into my hospital and only one drove home. It is really upsetting.</s>KEILAR: The ones lucky to survive are still dealing with the impact of the virus months later, others who are trying to stay alive.</s>LARRY KELLY, COVID-19 SURVIVOR: This disease affects not only individuals but their entire families. And I feel so much for the people who lost loved ones. And I just want everybody to wear their mask, you know. We don't want this. We don't want this. It was not easy that I'm here.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID for the ones that not only lost multiple family members to this virus but their livelihoods too.</s>RICHARDO AGUIRRE, LOST FAMILY MEMBERS AND BUSINESS TO COVID-19: I feel I'm very incompetent, a man not being able to go back to where it was. I lost my dad. It is very hard. It is hard.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID for the millions who are relying on overwhelmed food banks for their next meals. We cover COVID for the ones struggling to keep a roof over their heads, forced to leave everything they own behind.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Constable, need to come to the door.</s>ISRAEL RODRIGUEZ, FAMILY EVICTED FROM APARTMENT: It's my</s>KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRSEPONDENT: Their stroller now carries their possessions.</s>RODRIGUEZ: It's mainly the kid's clothes. Because me and her, we wear the same clothes almost every day, make sure we have toilet, a little bit of snacks for the kids.</s>LAH: What are you doing with all of your stuff?</s>RODRIGUEZ: That's trash. They can throw it in the trash because we don't have a car, we don't have help, we don't have nobody that can come help us out right now, nobody. We got ourselves, me and the kids and her. That's it.</s>KEILAR: We covered COVID for the ones who fear they may be next.</s>LAH: At this apartment, the tenant is an elderly woman who can no longer afford the rent. The landlords move her. Francisco Munoz works, though he doesn't want to.</s>FRANCISCO MUNOZ, HELPED MOVE EVICTED TENANT: I have a family. I have a sister. I have my mom. And we never know. Maybe today, it's her, tomorrow it's me.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID for the students who can't go to school safely and for the parents who are juggling their children and their jobs.</s>JANA COOMBS, MOTHER: I just took that picture because I wanted people to see reality. And tehn he came over and we hugged, I was crying right along with him.</s>KEILAR: We cover COVID because at least 14 states report record hospitalizations in the last week because we just saw the highest number of cases on a Monday since the peak in July, because experts say the next few weeks are going to be the darkest yet, and we are not, quote, rounding the turn, as the president claims. We cover it because the task force in charge of the response doesn't brief the public any more. The president says everyone is tired of the virus. Yes, we are. But that's where a president is supposed to come in and show leadership that can help Americans push through when they're already spent. Instead, he's talked more over the past 24 hours about Anthony Fauci's pitching arm than any of these victims that you just saw there, or the ones who are suffering and struggling. This is why we cover COVID. And until these numbers on your screen slow down, we're not going to stop. And even though President Trump held his last in person meeting with Dr. Fauci in mid-August, he's escalating attacks on the nation's top infectious disease expert with just two weeks until Election Day.</s>TRUMP: He's a nice guy, but he's been wrong. First of all, he said don't wear a masks, very strong, I'm sure you have that clip. He said don't wear masks. He said many things. He said, let the people from China that are heavily infected, let them come in. He admits that he was wrong on that and he admits that I saved thousands of lives. Reporters like him because they think he's against me. He's not really against me. He is a little bit sometimes not a team player, but he is a Democrat and I think that he's just fine.</s>KEILAR: For his part, Dr. Fauci says the president's comments are just a distraction and he is keeping his focus on fighting the pandemic.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It's like in The Godfather, nothing personal, strictly business, as far as I'm concerned. I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country. That's all I want to do.</s>KEILAR: Gloria Borger is CNN's Chief Political Analyst. She's with us now. And, Gloria, there's this recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll that shows 68 percent of Americans trust Dr. Fauci to provide reliable information when it comes to COVID-19. And then you compare that to President Trump, he's at just 40 percent. Of those who trust Fauci, nearly half of them are Republicans. So, I wonder, Gloria, for the president's closing argument, does this even make sense?</s>GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Of course, it doesn't make any sense. And when you talk to people in the campaign, they will tell you that it doesn't make any sense. You should be talking about the economy, what his plan is for the next four years, but instead what he's doing is talking about personal grievance. And when he ran in 2016, one of the reasons he was successful, Bri, was because he talked about other people's personal grievances. Now, he's talking about his own personal grievances. And one of his own is obviously Tony Fauci whom he is clearly jealous of, not only because people trust him more, he is more popular, but because he was on 60 Minutes and Donald Trump wasn't on 60 Minutes. And he said he wasn't surprised that Donald Trump actually contracted COVID-19, because he hosted a super-spreader event in the White House. And on one hand, he uses Tony Fauci in a political ad to make his point about how great he is, takes his words out of context, and what does Fauci do? He says that was wrong, and that he was harassed and that should not have happened. So he doesn't like Tony Fauci because he begs to differ with him in public.</s>KEILAR: You have this great new op-ed out on cnn.com. And you write about how badly the president needs a reset. I mean, that's very clear.</s>BORGER: Yes.</s>KEILAR: You also point out it likely is not going to happen.</s>BORGER: Sure, it is not going to happen. When he was sick with COVID, some friends of his were calling him at the hospital and I was told by a source familiar with these conversations that they tried to kind of gently nudge him and say, look, this is a moment for you to tell the American public that you understand what they're going through, those stories, Brianna, that you just showed. His friend said to him, you can tell the public now you get it. And, of course, that is not what he did. He marched up on to a balcony at the White House, he ripped off his mask and he proceeded to say, I've beaten it. You can beat it. Don't let it dominate your life. And I was talking to one of his biographers who explained it to me this way. And I thought it was very accurate. He said, look, Donald Trump can never backtrack, he can never admit he's made a mistake, because once he has done that, then he can't be the best at everything any more. He can't know more than the doctors. So it is not within his lexicon to say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I learned, let's move on together. That's just never going to happen, Bri.</s>KEILAR: No. I think we have seen that after four years now, definitely. Gloria, thank you so much. Great to see you.</s>BORGER: Sure.</s>KEILAR: The clock is ticking. Tonight is the deadline for Congress and the White House to reach a stimulus deal. So are they anywhere close? Plus, we're learning that a woman in her 30s died from the coronavirus after boarding a flight. And a sobering timetable for a coronavirus vaccine. This is CNN special live coverage.

Woman In Her 30s Dies From Coronavirus During Flight.

KEILAR: In Texas, Dallas County officials say a woman that was just in her 30s died from coronavirus during a flight. Let's get right now to CNN Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean. And, Pete, officials do say this victim had some serious pre-existing conditions. What can you tell us?</s>PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. And this could be the first case of somebody dying of coronavirus on board a U.S. flight since the pandemic began. Here is what we know from the Dallas County judge who certifies local coronavirus deaths in his area. This woman was in her 30s, had significant pre-existing conditions and died while on board a domestic flight. And what do not know is which airline this involves. We checked with American and Southwest, both have significant presences in Dallas, they are denying any involvement. We also do not know how a person with coronavirus was able to board a flight in the first place. For months, airlines have been asking passengers to certify that they do not have coronavirus symptoms when they check in for their flight. What's so interesting here is that all of this is coming down when more and more studies say that being on an airplane is relatively safe in the pandemic. Just last week, the Department of Defense says the risk of aerosol transmission of coronavirus is relatively low. But just today, the Centers for Disease Control said a mask must be worn by passengers and airline workers at all times during all parts of a travel experience, that includes the terminal and security where people get bottled up, and the risk of COVID transmission is relatively high. What this will do for the fears of fliers still remains to be seen. Just on Sunday, TSA says a million people passed through security at America's airports, a first in the pandemic. But those figures are still only about 40 percent of a year ago.</s>KEILAR: Just to underscore, the CDC just said that about masks.</s>MUNTEAN: They just said that. And it's not been given much teeth because of the federal government not lending any new regulations. The FAA shying away from requiring masks on board planes. It's been airlines since the beginning of the pandemic requiring that passengers wear masks.</s>KEILAR: All right. Pete, thank you for that report. There's a just released study that is suggesting ways to reduce transmission of coronavirus inside a classroom. Physicists at the University of New Mexico set up a test classroom of students nearly eight feet from each other, and they conducted 20 simulations. The researchers found that it helps to open windows, of course, turn on air conditioning or heat to get air circulating, and to attach shields to the front of desks. They also recommend that students stay away from A.C. or heat outlets where the particles gather and to reduce or get rid of a middle seat. Dr. Roshini Raj is an associate professor of medicine at NYU Langone Health and Contributing Medical Editor at Health Magazine. Dr. Raj, what did you take away from these findings?</s>DR. ROSHINI RAJ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, NYU LANGONE HEALTH: Well, I think it was an interesting study. They did computer simulations to get all of the data that you just presented. And it shows us that there are steps we can take to make schools safer for kids going back to school. But remember, this was a very sort of rarified situation where the desks were very far apart, as you said, almost eight feet apart, so more than six feet that we generally talk about.

President Trump Busy With Jam-Packed Rallies; First Lady Absent From Trump's Rally

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: We're just a call away. And Alice, God bless, the offer goes for you as well. Thank you for speaking to others --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Chris.</s>CUOMO: -- even in a time of pain you put in purpose to it. Thank you very much.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.</s>CUOMO: All right. Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon starts right now.</s>DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Man.</s>CUOMO: Thank you for the grace, brother. I mean, you know my family very well.</s>LEMON: What a family.</s>CUOMO: There but for the grace. He's superman, Rob Roberts. Cop, strong, loving, community loved him, force loved him. He had no business dying from</s>COVID. LEMON: Yes. No one, right? But that family is amazing. No one has no business of dying from COVID. And especially the numbers -- number of people who have died. It didn't have to be this way. We say it all the time. My heart goes out to that family. That mom is amazing. How's your heart? Haven't had much time to think about myself. These are kids.</s>CUOMO: That's a mom.</s>LEMON: That's a mom. You know, you got to give it to the mothers. And there are so many people who are like that and those are the stories that need to be told right now, and those are the people that this president should be thinking about and he should be talking about every day and working as hard as he can every single day to try to make it right for them. To try to get the proper testing, to tell them the truth, to tell them where we are in this to try to make, as he says, America great again. Well, America needs to be made great again. And I'm talking about great again about this coronavirus that he is pretending is just going to go away. He needs to see that family. I hope he saw that story because there are thousands, thousands upon thousands of families who are dealing with that right now, 200 -- more than 200,000 families.</s>CUOMO: Yes, you know, I mean, I wasn't going to use them as a prop. I'm not going to talk politics about them. Alice wanted to talk about why it matters. Now even as a family, you know, who --</s>LEMON: It's the truth, though, Chris.</s>CUOMO: -- were on the job. It is the truth because I got to tell you, I know a lot of people see them and they see them the way I do, which is, holy cow, they have 17, 13, and 11, two girls and a guy. I got 17, 14, and 10.</s>LEMON: Ten going on 35. but go on.</s>CUOMO: They had two girls and a guy. And when people say to me who support the president, you know, you seem to get so angry about stuff, you know, you should just be -- that family is why I get angry.</s>LEMON: There you go.</s>CUOMO: I don't get angry just about the policies. This isn't tax or not tax. Who gets how much percentage?</s>LEMON: Not about who gets re-elected, which is what's on his mind. This is about helping the American people. And then --</s>CUOMO: And this is about people's pain.</s>LEMON: -- who gets re-elected is next.</s>CUOMO: That family will never be the same. Hey, who knows?</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>CUOMO: Those kids might wind up getting to a better place because the strength they'll find in another and their mother, and the other people who love them I'm sure.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>CUOMO: But it shouldn't have to be that way for one more family than absolutely necessary. And for a president on his watch to ignore a crisis is unforgivable to me, especially when the words alone would matter. The words alone would matter. Not only does it not make sense to me here, as political strategy, I don't get not putting your arms around this pandemic and say, I'll do bet e the bet better, the states aren't getting it done. I don't get it here, Don.</s>LEMON: Yes. Well, listen, words are important.</s>CUOMO: I don't get it.</s>LEMON: Actions are more important. And listen, you know, equally as important. But I think taking some action, not pretending that it's not real, getting everything that is need, the testing and on and on, not misleading people about when a vaccine might come, not misleading people about hydro chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine or would, you know --</s>CUOMO: Just tear to wear the mask.</s>LEMON: Just tell them the truth -- the truth and wear the mask.</s>CUOMO: Just tell them to wear the mask.</s>LEMON: But I got, listen, I got to run. but I have to tell you, the story you did before that about the rich folks, it kind of dismantles that whole thing about economic anxiety was the reason that Trump was got elected. Those people have no economic anxiety. They're rich.</s>CUOMO: Well, they have economic anxiety. They don't want to give more money away to taxes.</s>LEMON: And what does that say?</s>CUOMO: That's like that used to be the traditional Republican which was you just don't want to get taxed anymore. You don't want to get --</s>LEMON: I don't want to get taxed anymore. I don't want to get taxed anymore. Listen, you do what you want, I want to be able to buy a $250,000 dune buggy. But I don't want to help people who are, who may be in need. I don't want to -- I want to be able to buy whatever which is fine, but just own up to it. And stop pretending the reason is economic anxiety. If you have enough disposable income to play dune buggies in the desert, listen, we all -- I like to have fun, you like to have fun. You like to go boating and fishing. That's -- but just be honest about what your intentions and what you think and stop pretending that it is something else. And stop ignoring the elephant in the room. It's not really economic anxiety. It's actually, I think, it is selfishness because, listen, I do well. I don't mind paying more taxes for people who are not doing well to help other people out. This is America. I will be OK. How much do I need? I can cut back. I can pay more. Listen, trust me, I don't like it, I don't like paying a lot of it, but I do it because, what, when you said it's here, it's also here because I realize that it was -- when preparation and luck meet, there's a certain degree of luck to where I am, to where you are, to where everybody gets. And so, everybody can't have that. Some people don't have bootstraps. So, as Americans, as people, especially if you believe in the Christian values that you espouse, you're supposed to do unto others and help others. So, I do that as much as I can. I don't like it, but I don't mind it in a way because I am blessed and fortunate enough to be in this position to make this amount of money where I am -- I have the privilege, I have the privilege, to be able to do that. No one likes to pay a lot of taxes, but we do it because we can. And not everybody can. So, maybe you buy one less dune buggy, maybe you guy one less fancy car. Maybe you buy one less boat, maybe you buy one less yacht. Maybe you buy one less apartment, one less mansion. But how much money do you really need? That's all I got to say.</s>CUOMO: As much as you want, I'm of the more pie variety.</s>LEMON: Well, I'm saying that -- I'm saying that -- no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying people can't be capitalist.</s>CUOMO: Right.</s>LEMON: You can have as much as you want, but let's just be -- let's be real about it.</s>CUOMO: Right. Not everybody backing Trump is because they're broke.</s>LEMON: Not everybody's backing Trump because they're broke and even the people -- even the rich people, they want to get richer.</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>LEMON: OK. Fine. But then realize that you have a privilege that other people don't have. So, help -- help some folks out.</s>CUOMO: Yes. And if you don't want to pay more in taxes, increase the involvement of all the different assets we have in this society.</s>LEMON: There you go.</s>CUOMO: Called our diversity and there will be more pie.</s>LEMON: There you go.</s>CUOMO: If everybody's involved, then they don't the need.</s>LEMON: There you go.</s>CUOMO: Through a system that keeps them unlikely.</s>LEMON: There you go. All right. Preach, brother.</s>CUOMO: More pie, that's my motto.</s>LEMON: I like the apple pie and the pecan, because I'm from -- as we say, pecan down south. I got to run.</s>CUOMO: Very nice. I love you, D. Lemon.</s>LEMON: I love you. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Let me get off my soap box now. But that's the truth. That's how I feel. I can't help it. That's how I feel. And, again, I'll tell you tonight, keep calm and carry on, whatever it is, it's going it be OK. Just keep moving. One foot in front of the other. Two weeks ago to go until election day. You can feel the tension rising in this country as we get closer and closer to what will be the most consequential election in most of our lifetimes. And it is very clear. Clear as day that this president has no idea how to run as an incumbent. None. Because the fact is he has never governed. He's abdicated his responsibility on the coronavirus, virus that has killed more than 220,000 Americans on his watch. He coasted on the Obama economy, coasted. And he coasted on the sugar high from corporate tax cuts. Until the -- until the economy came crashing down with this pandemic, he counted on chaos and conflict to keep the country divided and distracted, trying to pit us against each other. And now two weeks out, what does he have left? What's left in his quiver? Attacks on Dr. Fauci? And 60 Minutes' Lesley Stahl? What about that healthcare plan that he promised? Remember a couple -- it's going to come in two weeks, it will be in months, et cetera. What about the healthcare plan? And what about the vaccine?</s>GERALDO RIVERA, CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE, FOX NEWS: So, what's the earliest we could see that, a vaccine?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Sooner than the end of the year. Could be much sooner. This comes really fantastic.</s>RIVERA: Sooner than November 3rd?</s>TRUMP: I think -- I think in some cases, yes, it's possible before. But right around that time. We're on pace to have a vaccine available this year, maybe far in advance of the end of the year. We are delivering life-saving therapies and will produce a vaccine before the end of the year or maybe even sooner. We're going to have a vaccine very soon. Maybe even before a very special date. You know what date I'm talking about.</s>LEMON: A vaccine and the healthcare plan. What about the stimulus deal? What about that? The wall. All that stuff. The deal -- millions of Americans desperately need to help them pay for -- pay the rent, put food on the table. This president has never governed, never done his job. The Americans are paying the price in lives lost. Livelihoods lost. Fourteen days until election day. Less than 48 hours until the scheduled final debate. And he takes a Trump show on the road to another risky rally. This time he's in Erie, Pennsylvania. I've said it before, you'd almost think that we were not in the middle of a deadly pandemic. President again tonight insisting that we are rounding the corner with more than 220,000 Americans dead. And he needs the crowd. He needs that crowd to reassure him that he still has a chance to win.</s>TRUMP: If they did a good job, I wouldn't have run.</s>TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.</s>LEMON: And his opponent Joe Biden deep in debate prep tonight. As his running mate, Senator Kamala Harris, tells a Wisconsin virtual rally this about their campaign.</s>SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is about building back up better, it is about unifying our country, it is about speaking to our higher purpose and ideals and doing the work that is necessary to remind everyone, to remind everyone, that they are not alone. We are all in this together. And we're going to get through this together.</s>LEMON: And the President of the United States, what he is doing, his closing message is to lash out, to lash out at Biden, to lash out at Dr. Fauci, to lash out at 60 Minutes and Lesley Stahl, threatening to post the interview he taped with her today, an interview he walked out of, refusing to come back, which is exactly the opposite of what you do if you actually want to get your message out there in the final days of the campaign. He sure didn't look happy leaving the White House after walking out of that interview. There's the picture right there. He's behind in the polls. He's trying to turn the clock back to 2016, trying to run the same playbook that got him to the White House. Lesley Stahl says that Trump told her in 2016 that his attacks on the press were all about discredit -- discrediting any negative stories about him saying, and I quote here, "you know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so when you write negative stories about me, no one will believe them." Said it out loud. Like I said, trying to turn back the clock to 2016. Now, the fact is the president still has a chance right now in 2020. He really does. But his polling in states that he won four years ago shows Joe Biden is ahead. He seems furious over stories suggesting that he is headed for defeat. Yesterday in Arizona, for example, he told reporters, I'm not running scared, I think I'm running angry. This is a president who seems to be decompensating, OK? CNN fact-checker extraordinaire Daniel Dale says he's never seen Trump lie this much in all of his time in office. That's saying a lot. He can't even count on the first lady to be by his side in these last days of the campaign. Why, Melania Trump backing out of the rally tonight in Pennsylvania blaming a persistent cough as she recovers from the coronavirus and not offering a makeup date, by the way. So, the first lady is going to peace out on the campaign with just two weeks to go. Something that's pretty unheard of as millions and millions of Americans are already voting, more than 32 million of you so far. During this presidency and the weeks leading up to this election, we cannot lose sight of what this country is supposed to be all about. And what has been done in our name. And so, I wanted to end this part of my show, right, just this beginning part, by going back a couple of years in light of some new information we just learned tonight. Remember, remember the children? Some of them just babies, cruelly and heartlessly separated from their families by U.S. border officials in 2017, 2018. Well, tonight we're learning that parents of 545 of those children still can't be found. A court filing says that some two-thirds of those parents are believed to have been deported without their children. Five hundred and forty-five kids that your government, our government, separated from their parents, possibly forever. This is what the Trump administration, this is their zero-tolerance policy. Is that what it is? Zero tolerance. And it results -- its results are absolutely intolerable. It should be for anyone with a heart. Kaitlan Collins joins us now. Erie, Pennsylvania, tonight. Kaitlan, good evening to you. Thank you so much for joining. So, here's what some of President Trump had to say at a rally in Pennsylvania tonight. Here it is.</s>TRUMP: Before the plague came in, I had it made. I wasn't coming to Erie. I mean, I have to be honest, there was no way I was coming. I didn't have to. I would have called you, said, hey, Erie, you know, if you have a chance, get out and vote. We had this thing won. We were so far up. We had the greatest economy ever. Greatest jobs. Greatest everything. And then we got hit with the plague. And I had to go back to work. Hello, Erie, may I please have your vote? And in conclusion, we'll make this a little shorter. You know it's like about 40 degrees. I don't want people -- I don't want to lose anybody. You got to go vote. So, we're going to go a little shorter because you got to go vote.</s>LEMON: What kind of a closing message is that, Kaitlan?</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's one to a state that we should note he's down to Joe Biden significantly here in Pennsylvania. And of course, this is a state the president carried by a small margin in 2016. He's obviously trying to do so again. And then he's coming here with this message of I really am only here because I have to be, saying that if his prospects were as good as they were before the pandemic, he actually probably wouldn't likely be here in Erie rallying supporters. It's really -- I mean, maybe it's a genuine message from the president, he actually feels that way, but it's not exactly what political aides are hoping to telegraph as they're trying to project this message that Joe Biden does not care about people of Pennsylvania in the way that the president does.</s>LEMON: Kaitlan, thank you very much, reporting from Erie, Pennsylvania, traveling with the president. Two weeks from today we'll be in the thick of election night coverage. Where -- where will the candidates be? Where will they be on the road to 270? And where are we now? Kirsten Powers, Ron Brownstein, they're here, they're next.

CDC Reports Grim Reality; COVID-19 On Its Second Wave

LEMON: So, with election day just two weeks away, the president's handling of the pandemic is on the ballot and this map tells you all you need to know about how the battle against the virus is going. Take a look at it. We're all well into the second wave right now. Right? We are well into the second wave right now. Forty-nine states trending in the wrong direction or holding steady with only Hawaii, only Hawaii, in the green. Our daily average for new cases continuing to hover at around 60,000 today. With concerning spikes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. And according to new CDC -- a new CDC report released today, the coronavirus pandemic leading to deaths of approximately 300,000 more people than would be expected under normal conditions with about 198,000 of them or roughly two-thirds of those deaths coming directly from COVID-19. The CDC also finding deaths among Hispanics and Latinos up 53.6 percent. And deaths among young adults between the ages of 25 and 44 up 26.5 percent. So, let's discuss now with Dr. Leana Wen from Baltimore City -- the former Baltimore City health commissioner. Doctor, good to see you again. I appreciate you joining us here.</s>LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Good to so you, too, Don.</s>LEMON: So, you heard the information I gave, but when you see the map, what does it tell you about this second wave?</s>WEN: Well, it tells us that we are headed into exactly where we did not want to be headed into the winter months. We had hoped that -- there was a chance that we could suppress the level of COVID-19 enough so that coming into the winter when people are gathering indoors, when it's going to be harder to be outdoors, when there are also the confluence of other respiratory pathogens, that we could be at a low enough level that that increase is not going to be so dramatic. But I'm afraid that we are not there, and, in fact, we are on track to having 200,000 more deaths by the end of this winter.</s>LEMON: So, Dr. Wen, the former FDA Commissioner, Scott Gottlieb, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, warning in an interview that the U.S. may see a rapid acceleration. And that we are about two or three weeks behind where Europe is. We got a chart on the screen right now comparing the situation in the U.S. and the E.U. What do you think we should expect over the next two or three weeks here in the U.S., doctor?</s>WEN: Well, when we look at the U.S. Versus Europe, we see that both had this initial rapid surge, but unlike Europe that was able to suppress their level of infection, we never really did. We came down to a baseline level that was very high, then we had a second surge that involved the south, the sunbelt, and the west, and now we're experiencing a third surge on top of that. And so, when we look at Europe, we see that, they're undergoing exponential spread, that's likely where we're going to be headed as well. We have states like Nevada where the test positivity rate is almost 50 percent. That's one in two people who are testing are actually testing positive, which means that there's a very high level of infection that we're not detecting because of lack of testing. And there is a lot more community infection. We also know that about 50 percent or more of the cases of COVID-19 in many communities cannot be traced back to a particular infection source which also means that there's a very high level of infection that we're just going to see balloon in the next few weeks.</s>LEMON: So, doctor, let's talk about that CDC report. Almost 300,000 excess deaths already this year. I mean, that is just devastating and the skyrocketing numbers for Latinos and young adults, that's particularly troubling. What is behind that, do you think? What is it?</s>WEN: Well, the numbers overall tell the true story of the pandemic's toll because there are individuals who may not have officially been diagnosed with coronavirus because of lack of testing, especially early on in the pandemic who died but it wasn't directly attributed to coronavirus. Also, there are individuals who may have died from heart attacks or strokes. They just never sought care also because of coronavirus so that's the true toll. That number, the disproportionate impact on minorities, on black Americans, Hispanic-Americans, other people of color, that mirrors what we've seen for coronavirus overall. And it's so tragic because coronavirus is not a virus that discriminates. It's not the virus that's doing the discriminating but it's our healthcare systems and these other social determinates. It's our structures in place that are doing the discriminating. And we've seen with young people, too. This number that you mentioned, it's also a reminder that no one is immune, not even young people from this virus.</s>LEMON: I hope everyone is listening to you. Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.</s>WEN: Thank you.</s>LEMON: A police officer in uniform with badge and gun walks into a polling place wearing a Trump 2020 mask. Does this look intimidating to you? What you need to know ahead of casting your vote, next.

Police Officer Wears A Trump Mask

LEMON: Story you should all pay attention to because we are just 14 days away from election day. And early voting is well under way all across the country. More than 33 million ballots already cast. But as the president repeatedly tries to cast doubt on the legitimacy of this election with baseless claims of widespread fraud and calls for his supporters to poll watch, many Americans are still concerned about how to protect their votes. And that environment of political tension came to a head today in Miami. OK? This is what I want you to see. Take a look at this. This was taken today. That is a Miami Police Department officer in full uniform carrying his firearm, wearing a mask that reads, "Trump 2020 no more bull." Well, you know. The photo was taken by Steve Simeonidis, chairman of the Miami-Dade Democratic Party who said he photographed the officer who he identified as Daniel Ubeda wearing the mask at a voting site in Miami's government center. A spokesperson for the Miami police declined to confirm the officer's name. Simeonidis tweeted out the photo which went viral saying, quote, "this is city-funded voter intimidation." The Miami Police Department tweeted about the incident saying the officer violated department policy and that it was -- it was addressing the matter immediately. Matt Reyes, the vice president of the Miami Fraternal Order of Police tells CNN the matter will become an open investigation so he can't discuss the details. He did, however, offer this statement. Police officers also have first amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution as well as the right to vote in uniform pursuant to Florida state law. OK. But that doesn't quite address the issue which is whether an armed police officer in full uniform which is allowed, wearing a Trump mask, which as a political message is not -- is not. That's not allowed. The mask. Is it intimidating to other voters? Miami Mayor Francis Suarez also addressed the controversy, speaking to reporters this afternoon.</s>MAYOR FRANCIS SUAREZ (R), MIAMI, FLORIDA: The city of Miami and the Miami Police Department do not support or endorse any candidate for political party or elected office. The involved officer was not authorized to wear a mask with a political messaging, nor was he given any administrative direction to support a particular candidate or political party. His actions have violated departmental policy and he will be disciplined. He is allowed to vote with his uniform on, so the fact that he's wearing a uniform while voting is not a per se, violation of state law. The issue was wearing political signage, political mask, that he was not authorized to use.</s>LEMON: As the mayor notes, we'll say it again, the officer is permitted to vote in uniform. And police officers should vote for whoever they want to vote for, but there is a bigger issue at play here in the lead-up to the election. In a country struggling with a vast political divide and deep mistrust between Americans, voter intimidation is clearly a concern, particularly as the president has called on his supporters to poll watch.</s>TRUMP: I'm urging my supporters --</s>CHRIS WALLACE, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: You go first.</s>TRUMP: -- to go into the polls and watch very carefully because that's what has to happen. I'm urging them to do it.</s>LEMON: With two weeks until election day and a record number of people turning out, it's important, more important than ever, that everyone gets to vote freely, without intimidation, without interference. We all need to follow the rules including police officers. We have our say at the polls. And then count the votes. And just when the political divide in this country seems to be too big to bridge, there is this. The Democratic and Republican candidates for governor of Utah teaming up, sending a message to the country. I can't believe this to put civility first. They're going to both join me, next.

A Message Of Unity From Utah Candidates.

LEMON: Can you believe it? It's only two weeks until election day and partisan tensions are running high. But in Ohio, Democratic and Republican candidates for governor are putting out a message for unity, and videos calling for civility and pledging to accept the results of the 2020 election.</s>SPENCER COX (R), UTAH GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Spencer Cox, your Republican candidate for Utah governor.</s>CHRIS PETERSON (D), UTAH GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm Chris Peterson, your Democratic candidate for governor.</s>COX: We are currently in the final days of campaigning against each other.</s>PETERSON: But our common values transcend our political differences and the strength of our nation rest on our ability to see that.</s>COX: We are both equally dedicated to the American values of democracy, liberty and justice for all people.</s>PETERSON: We just have different opinions on how to achieve those ideals.</s>COX: But today, we are setting aside those differences to deliver a message critical for the health of our nation.</s>PETERSON: That whether you vote by mail or in person, we will fully support the results of the upcoming presidential election regardless of the outcome.</s>COX: Although we sit on opposite sides of the aisle, we are both committed to American civility and a peaceful transition of power.</s>LEMON: I don't know how I got Ohio out of Utah. But my mistake. My bad. Sorry about that. I meant Utah. So, it kind of makes you want to elect both of them, right? Chris Peterson and Lieutenant Governor Spencer Cox join me now. Utah, Utah, Utah. Good evening to both of you. Lieutenant Governor, whose idea was this?</s>COX: Well, Don, I almost had an aneurysm when you said Ohio. The truth is a friend came to me a couple of weeks ago and was really concerned about what happens in our country on November 4th. You know, we've seen civil unrest over the past few months and regardless of who wins I think there's a real fear that there could be some negative consequences here in our country. And so, we started thinking about could we do something different, could Utah be an example. And so, my opponent Chris Peterson I have a great relationship, we started talking about what we could do and just came up with this idea that maybe we should -- we should film something talking about how we do things in Utah and that we're Americans first, Republicans and Democrats second. And it just came together very quickly.</s>LEMON: It sounds like you have a, you know, a Chris in your life like I have. We don't always agree with each other but, hey, you know, we're friends. So, Chris, these videos are going viral online, racking up more than a million views already. Why do you believe people are responding so positively to your message, especially when so many Americans are feeling angry right now?</s>PETERSON: Well, I think that most Americans are yearning for some sense of normalcy and the American people as well as Utahns are decent people. We're by and large loving and caring people on both sides of the aisle. And to see two candidates who stridently disagree with each other about policy come together to try to have a positive message about civility and respect for our Democratic institutions is refreshing for people. And I think that's why it's taking off.</s>LEMON: So, Lieutenant Governor, I have to ask you, because, you know, the president has dodged and refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if Joe Biden wins. Are your comments about accepting the results intended to set a good example for him, for the people of Utah, the country wide?</s>COX: Yes, yes, I think all of the above. That's the hope. Look, if we -- I believe that our politicians are a reflection of us, we the people. And if we're expecting politicians in D.C. to show us how to do things better, then we're going to be very disappointed. It really is on all of us to make sure that first of all we're electing people that hold the same values that we do and that we're ready to come together. It's something we do here in Utah. We're not unique, Chris and I aren't unique here. Most people believe that even if we have differences we should work together for the common good. And that's our -- that's our clarion call to everyone to come together after this election.</s>LEMON: Yes. I got to ask you. Chris, I'm sure you've seen the lines all over the country, and you know, record early voting all over America. How dangerous is it that the legitimacy of the American voting process is questioned by the president while this is happening?</s>PETERSON: It's extremely problematic. look, we need to renew our commitment as a people to both decency and democracy. The whole point of having elections is to count up all the votes, count up all the votes, and then we have to live with one another after that election and move forward to try to forge compromise and identify problems and then solve those problems. And if we can do that, we're going to feel better about ourselves because most people want to do the right thing.</s>LEMON: So, I got to tell you, I love what both of you are doing. Thank you for bringing civility into this process. But Lieutenant Governor, I got to tell you, you're going to have to up your bookshelf game, because Chris is -- Chris is winning the bookshelf game on the TV. So that's all I got to say.</s>PETERSON: Well, Don, I think -- right now, most important game.</s>LEMON: That's the spirit.</s>COX: I'll give him the bookshelf game.</s>LEMON: Yes. You'll take the poll game, right. Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate both of you. Best of luck to both of you, OK? Thanks again. Be safe.</s>COX: Thank you, Don.</s>PETERSON: Thank you so much.</s>LEMON: Yes. two weeks, 14 days, only 14 days until election day and we are taking an in-depth look at the issues facing black voters. That's right after this.

Trump and Biden Set For Final Debate Thursday; Obama Tweets A Video Aimed At Young Americans On The Eve Of His Return To Campaign Trail; The Path To 270 For Joe Biden And Donald Trump; Trump And Biden Make Their Closing Arguments To Black Voters

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Black voters have a lot of power in 2020, so let's dig into it all right now. So I want to bring in CNN's Senior Political Reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson and political analyst, Astead Herndon. Hello to both of you. Thanks for joining. Important topic that we are covering this hour. So, Nia, President Obama just releasing a video before he hits the campaign trail tomorrow, take a listen to it.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hey, everybody. One of the most inspiring things about this year has been to see so many young Americans fired up, organizing, marching and fighting for change. Your generation can be the one that creates a new normal in America, one that's fair, where the system treats everybody equally and gives everybody opportunity. We can come out of this moment stronger than before. Voting doesn't accomplish that on its own, but we can't accomplish that without voting. I know there's plenty out there to make people feel cynical and plenty of people are going to seize on that to convince you that your vote doesn't matter. It's not new, it's one of the oldest voter suppression tactics there is. What is new is growing movement for justice, equality and progress on so many issues. This is really a tipping point. And that momentum only continues if we win this election. In times as polarized as these, your vote doesn't just matter, it matters more than ever before. And to change the game on any of the issues we care about, Joe Biden needs your vote. I know Joe better than almost anybody, I trust him to be a great president. He's different. He's on the right side of the issues. He'll get the job done. And Joe and Kamala will want you to keep pushing them to get the job done. Participate and vote. It's not always pretty, trust me, I know. But it's how bit by bit we've made progress over the generations. And its how your generation is going to change the game entirely. Go to iwillvote.com to make your plan, then get some friends to join you. Let's go win this thing.</s>LEMON: So, Nia, President Obama is a powerful force for Joe Biden but he is also powerful force in terms of why Donald Trump is currently president, right?</s>NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That is an excellent point. And he obviously very much energizes the other side, energizes particularly rural white voters, non-college white voters, which is the base of Donald Trump. And really the reason why he won the presidency in so many ways. But here you see vintage Barack Obama going at those voters that he was so good at inspiring in 2008, in 2012, young voters. And saying to them, in some of the, you know, particularly young African-American voters might think. Listen, it doesn't really matter if you vote, you stay home. And so he is directly going at that idea and really casting it for what it is which is an attempt to suppress the African-American vote. There's been so much talk over these last days about black men, Ice Cube, 50 Cent, all these figures who seemed to be maybe trending towards Donald Trump, maybe this means something larger about where particularly African-American men might end up on the spectrum. So there you see Barack Obama, who has been a heavy hitter in terms of those voters that stayed home in 2016 after a lot of African-American voters, younger voters, Latino voters really going there and trying to get those folks to see the stakes of this election. We will see if it works.</s>LEMON: So, Astead, I want to talk about the Black vote, OK? There's a recent poll that shows coronavirus, racism and the economy are the most important issues in the election for black voters. These are the big issues in this election for all Americans and the black community is hit hard by all of them.</s>ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Yes. And I think there's no surprise that we see those issues at top. Because Black voters like the rest of the American electorate have been affected by this. This has been a summer in which the economy has been upended by the virus which our daily lives have been upended by the virus which protests about racial justice and racial equality, police brutality have kind of expanded in a way that we haven't seen since the civil rights movement. And so, I think it's no surprise that we see those issues at top for black voters. The question will be, is this going to be Democratic Party that speaks to those issues? We know kind of as a matter of principle that black voters are going to overwhelmingly vote Democratic. The question here is those margins that we are going to see and also the turnout. Will folks come out in the same type of numbers that we saw in 2008 and 2012? Listening to that Barack Obama video, I think back to 2016 when he said it will be a personal insult to him if black voters didn't come out in the same numbers that they came out for him for Hillary Clinton. Well, that did not happen. And partly that's because there is a growing sense particularly when we see among younger black voters that the Democratic Party has taken them for granted, has no not rewarded that consistent vote with attention and with kind of policy deference. And so I think, it's up to Joe Biden. It's up to Kamala Harris to in the last few days to really make that push to make clear to black voters, particularly black men, particularly younger black voters that this is an election worth coming out for and not only that they will be an administration that is listening to their issues.</s>LEMON: So, listen. We have to have this conversation. If we're having this conversation, Nia, we've got to talk about the suppression of especially black voters. Black Americans still face disproportionate barriers at the ballot box. How big and how real is the threat of voter suppression and disenfranchisement in this election?</s>HENDERSON: It is what is keeping Democrats up at night. The idea that they could have the most votes but come Election Day maybe some of those votes would tossed out. Some of them may all in ballots, but you also see black voters themselves being nervous about voter suppression. So, maybe they don't want to go and mail their votes. They want to go and show up in person and they seem fine in many ways with braving hours and hours of standing in line. It's almost a point of pride among a couple of African-Americans I've talked to. So, there is I think this heightened awareness obviously among sort of Democratic officials and they are going to what they are going to have to do in terms of lawsuits. But actual African-American voters also aware of the threat of voter suppression which is so real. You think about what's going on in Texas, limiting drop boxes. All of these lawsuits and attempts that are going on across the country, with Republicans really trying to suppress the vote because they know the more people who vote, are the worse their chances are for getting -- for maintaining the Senate, for maintaining the presidency as well. So, it is a real effort and Democrats are very, very nervous about this. And African-American voters and all voters I think are mindful of these efforts as well.</s>LEMON: Nia, Astead, thank you very much. Important conversation we're going to continue on right now. I want to bring in Phil Mattingly with look at road to 270 electoral votes and the critical role black voters will play. Phil, what's the latest?</s>PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, two weeks from Election Day, tens of millions of Americans have already cast their ballot. Let's take a look at where the race actually stands right now. I want to stress, this is CNN's race ratings at this moment. This is obviously not Election Day, and as we've seen, a lot can happen over the course of the next 13 or 14 days. Now, where things stand right now, dark blue, dark red, that means the Republican and Democrats are pretty comfortable on where they stand. Anything in the lighter hue that means it's leaning one way or another. Light blue to Democrats, light red to Republican, if it's gold that means it's a toss-up. If you look at where things currently stand right now, the Biden campaign should be feeling pretty good, 290 electoral votes based on things that are solid or leaning in Biden's direction. However as we noted two weeks left leans do not make confirms state wins. So, let's go through the map, here and actually take a look at some of the pathways President Trump may have, even with Bidens advantaging point around the country at this moment in time. I want to start by just giving everything in gold, everything in toss- up to President Trump. That would make some sense, that's what happen in 2016. President Trump won Florida, won Georgia, won North Carolina. Expected to be razor tight from where it began. Ohio, we won handedly back in 2016. Iowa, same story move up to Maine to whether the state hands out to electoral votes. Same thing, perhaps given that as well. But the problem is, Joe Biden still doesn't puncture his 290 electoral votes, based on the current race ratings. So, let's start taking away some states from Joe Biden's and see where things can happen. If you want to focus on where President Trump, where his campaign is focusing, you focus on the Midwest. This really shock the world back in 2016. Where they puncture the blue wall, so maybe you give President Trump Pennsylvania. That takes him right up to the verge, however Joe Biden still has 270 electoral votes. Then things really come down to Michigan and Wisconsin. So can President Trump win one or both of those that would push him over 270 votes? And that is why Democrats are keenly aware of where things stand in those states. Again, these were states that back in 2016, shocked the world when they ended up going in to Donald Trump's column. Now, there are a number of different reasons why Donald Trump did well in the Midwest. I want to start with Michigan here, one though the Democrats have been ruling the day about since 2016, it was African American turnout. Look at his down across the country. To some extent to be understood, an Africa-American president is no longer on the ballot. When you look at states like Michigan, and you look at this margin, Donald Trump winning the state of Michigan by just shy of 11,000 votes. And then you take a look at the Democratic breakdown inside the state, where the (inaudible) hue gets darker, that is where there is a higher African-American population. The highest by far is in Wayne County. You look at the results in Wayne County, you see Hillary Clinton crushed Donald Trump, 519,000 votes, winning by nearly 300,000 votes. What's the problem there? The problem is this. Take a look at the turnout for Wayne County, where Detroit is located. Compared to 2012. 2012, 815,000. 2016, 40,000 less. What is that end up to while Hillary Clinton's 519,000 votes that most 76,000 fewer votes than Barack Obama had in 2012. Again, take a look at the margin. Donald Trump won the state by 10,000 votes. Think about the 76,000 votes, and we have a similar story over Milwaukee. I want to go over to Milwaukee County, again highest number of African Americans for the county, in the state. Milwaukee County, again Hillary Clinton huge martin crushing Donald Trump in this county. And then you look at the turnout compared to 2012, Milwaukee County, pull it up 492,000 in 2012, 433,000 in 2016. 288,000 votes for Hillary Clinton, those 43,000 fewer votes than President Obama had in 2012. So, when you talk to Democrats and when you talk about the Midwest, there's a lot of talk about working class white voters. Whether President Trump can boost the turnout there, if you're a Democrat and you're looking at this map right now and you are looking at Michigan and you are looking at Wisconsin and you realize those states could blocked President Trump's pathway to 270. You're also focused on African American turnout, because in 2016 African American turn in just two counties in those two states, will change the face of the race entirely. Don.</s>LEMON: Phil Mattingly, thank you so much. So black women may be the key to the election in the battleground state of Michigan, so why do some say this?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think the Democratic Party takes you for granted?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Black Women, The Key In Battleground State Of Michigan

LEMON: Just two weeks into Election Day and with so much on the line, black voters are speaking out loud and clear, it's all about making sure no vote is taken for granted. President Trump's closing argument for black voters, well, it's the same as it ever was.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have done more for the black community than any president with the exception of Abraham Lincoln. It's true, it's true.</s>LEMON: Charlamagne Tha God joins me now. Charlamagne, so good to see you, thanks for doing this, all right?</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, RADIO PRESENTER: Don, thank you for having me, my brother. How are you?</s>LEMON: I'm doing well. I want to get your take on how you're doing. That's why I have you here. Black voters -- I got to say this are so much deeper than most candidates give us credit for. Deeper than that ridiculous statement like I've done more for black voters since Abraham Lincoln. Can you give me your take on black voters and what they want out of this election, Charlamagne?</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: What they want out of this election, I think that we just want to be heard. You know, I think that, you know, when you look at, you know Joe Biden and his lift every voice plan, you know, some of the most important things in it for me, when he speaks on, you know, advancing the economic mobility of black people, and closing the racial income gaps. But you know, that's really all lip service, simply because we're in dream selling season. On November 3rd we are going to find out whose dream Americans been buying into. Everything -- if everything that Joe Biden's plan for black people goes through, it will absolutely make legitimate changes and I think the change that we want, but what it really go down to is Joe Biden getting him in the White House. And you know, Democrats getting control of the House and the Senate because of -- if that doesn't happen, nothing's going to happen. And I answer your question, I just think you know we want to be heard and not really think that we're looking for some type of economic mobility.</s>LEMON: So, listen, OK. Fair point, I think you're right about all of that. Listen, even if I didn't, it's still your opinion and you're entitled to it. But this is what -- considering the support that Joe Biden has from black people, I think it would be incumbent on black people to hold his feet to the fire.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Absolutely.</s>LEMON: To take into account if he does become president. You have talked about this before, about black voters shouldn't be afraid to ask for something in return for their vote. Si one of those things that you and Diddy talk about recently and I want you to listen to this.</s>SEAN COMBS, AMERICAN RAPPER: Between COVID hitting us and because we weren't organized for this election, we have no choice now to get Trump out of there.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, AMERICAN RADIO PRESENTER: Mm-hmm.</s>COMBS: It's a shame and it's our responsibility that we did not get anything out of putting Biden in the place he is in --</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Mm-hmm.</s>COMBS: -- after the primaries.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Senator Harris and the V.P., you know, these are some of the things we were asking for. Black and gender could be way stronger, way stronger. He said he'll put a black woman on the Supreme Court. We don't even know if that is gonna happen now.</s>COMBS: Hey, when you look at it, we don't have choice. You know what I'm saying? You can say what you want about Biden. I can't say I love the pick either. But hey, we've got to get him in office --</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Mm-hmm.</s>COMBS: -- and then we got to hold him accountable.</s>LEMON: All right. So, listen, a lot of black people feel that they use their power to support Democrats, nothing ever happens. You were just talking about that. Listen, I love the conversation that you were having with Diddy and I love what Diddy is doing right now when --</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Me, too.</s>LEMON: -- politically. But go on.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yeah. I think what Diddy is doing is</s>LEMON: Yeah. Again, you know, just not as much of the conversation as you've had with Diddy, but he's real, he knows what he's talking about, he has done his homework, so I am really happy about that. But listen, you said the --</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Even if he doesn't know -- even if he doesn't know what he's talking about, he is standing next to people who know what --</s>LEMON: Who know what they are talking about. Amen, brother.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes.</s>LEMON: Thank you. So, having said that, you said that black women and black men, two biggest voting blocks, you've seen, you know, the polls that have been done on black men, prominent black men who are coming out, saying, oh, well, maybe you should vote for Trump, maybe I'm looking towards Trump, or some just saying, you know, I need to work with both parties with -- you know what I'm talking about. What do you say to that? I do want to ask you about it.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I don't -- I don't -- I don't like that narrative, you know, because if Trump wins, they're not about to turn this into a black man and the reason Trump is in office thing. In 2016, black men voted against Trump more than any other group of men. That's a fact. You actually need to do a show, Don, on white women and asked them why they came out and voted for Trump in 2016, over one of their own, and do they plan to make the same mistake this year? Don't put that on black men.</s>LEMON: Mm-hmm. Go on. Talk to me more about that. I want to hear.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Well, I think -- to even answer your question more deeply, I think, you know, when it comes to the black people you see who maybe, you know, showing support for Trump, I just think, you know, it's because Trump is actually talking to young black male voters. He is directing ads toward them. They are a group that never get courted. I mean, black people don't get courted either as a whole. But that old democratic regime speaks to old black men. I think everyone else in the black community and black families, they are supposed to fall I line. They know black women are going to show up regardless. Like I said, he speaks to older black men, and he thinks the rest of us all speak the same language. So Trump is targeting young black males from marketing. It works.</s>LEMON: From marketing. OK. Just real quick because I have a couple of more things I want to talk to you, if you can give me a quick answer. Do you think that Kamala Harris on the ticket, do you think Senator Harris -- does that with black men and women?</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Oh, absolutely. I mean, when we were pushing for Joe Biden to pick a black woman as his V.P., Senator Harris is who I had mine. I am voting for Kamala Harris. I tell you that in the heartbeat. I am not necessarily voting for Joe Biden. I am voting for Senator Kamala Harris.</s>LEMON: Well, you got your -- don't you have your vote ballot right there?</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I do, actually. I showed you this before we got on.</s>LEMON: You did show me an envelope, but I don't know what's in there.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Listen, I'm voting for Senator Kamala Harris.</s>LEMON: Yeah.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I believe Kamala is the political change. I believe she is exactly the leader this country needs to lead us in the future. If she's not been, I'll just be wrong, because I am going to be honest with you, Don, I am just so tired of like old white male leadership in politics. I can't speak for all black Americans. Black Americans are monolithic. I am only speaking for me. To me, I'm just sick of that. I'm tired of old white male leadership in government. Trump wants to make America great again. Biden wants to build back better. As a black man, I don't want to do none of that because we know America has never been great for everyone. We talk about building back better. It is like saying we are trying to return things to normal. But America's normal hasn't work for black people.</s>LEMON: Mm-hmm. All right. Listen, I got to go. Are you going to mail or you're going to go and take it and drop it?</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I think I'm going to take it and drop it. I don't trust the mail. I've never done it through mail. I've always gone in and press the button. And just listening to Donald Trump, you know, I don't want him just throwing my votes away.</s>LEMON: Yeah.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: So I think I'm gonna fill it out drop it off.</s>LEMON: Listen --</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: But I am voting for Senator Kamala Harris.</s>LEMON: All right. Let me say this. I trust the mail. I am going to go this week and if the lines are too long, I'm going to mail it in. I think people should vote, I think you agree with this, by mail, by in- person, whatever it is, however they can vote, go out and vote.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I agree.</s>LEMON: Do you agree on that?</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I agree.</s>LEMON: Thank you, Charlamagne. I appreciate it. Be well.</s>CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Bye, Don.</s>LEMON: So, the Black Lives Matter movement mobilized the country before President Trump weaponized it against the Democrats. Now, it is a social justice and election issue. And tonight, there is big news in the Breonna Taylor case. We got that next. Plus, NBA players are using their platforms to spread messages of social justice ahead of the election. Former pro player Caron Butler, well, he takes his message here.

Breonna Taylor Grand Juror Says Panel Wasn't Given A Chance To Consider Homicide Charges.

LEMON: There is a major development tonight in the case of Breonna Taylor, the young Kentucky woman shot and killed in her own home by Louisville police officers earlier this year as they served a no-knock warrant. A Kentucky judge ruling a grand juror may speak publicly about the case presented by Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron. The grand juror saying the panel was not given an opportunity to consider homicide charges in the case against the officers. The A.G. saying he had asked the grand jury for an indictment on charges he thought could be proven in court, and he indicated in public statements, it was a choice of the grand jury what to charge. Well, the grand jury was only presented with wanton endangerment charges against the officer. The case is drawing a lot of attention from black voters and frankly, people of all colors. Let's discuss with Joseph Pinion, a Republican strategist, and Alicia Garza, co-founder of the Black Lives Matter, also Black Lives Matter who is also the author of "The Purpose of Power: How We Come Together When We Fall." I am so grateful to have both of you on. Good evening. So, Alicia, I want to start with you because, as I said, one of the jurors on the grand jury says that the panel was not given an opportunity to consider homicide charges, right? Breonna's family says it's a miscarriage of justice. This story has resonated so widely along with George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and so many others. And the Black Lives Matter movement can make a difference in this dynamic of the election. Do you think -- do you believe that?</s>ALICIA GARZA, CO-FOUNDER, BLACK LIVES MATTER: I do. You know, black families and black communities across this nation know the story very well. What we know is that time after time, loved ones, our family members, our friends are taken from us unnecessarily. And when it comes to accountability, what we also know is that the rules in place actually protect the very people who are taking our lives unjustly. And so I do think that black voters are paying attention to that in this election cycle. They are paying attention to who is really putting forward an agenda to address this. My organization, the Black Futures club, did the largest survey of black people in America in 155 years. The top issues that we named as things that we care about and experience every day included the economy. Like Charlamagne just said, we're just too low to support a family. It also included other safety net issues. But when it came to policing, the number one thing that people said was that they want to see police held accountable when they commit crimes in our communities. So this is going to play in a certain way with black voters this election cycle.</s>LEMON: Mm-hmm. Joe, you know, support for Black Lives Matter is down since the height of the protests in June from 67 percent to 55 percent in September. It became weaponized by the right after some violence at some of the protests. Do you think that this has an impact on voting now?</s>JOSEPH PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No. I think, quite honestly, the reality is that unfortunately, America has never gone to the polls in the modern era of the presidency to remedy injustice in the name of race. That is just the unfortunate reality of where we live. And so I think we, as a movement of people who are consistently asking for justice, jobs, and equality for black people, have to recognize that yes, there will always be more attention paid to the negative aspects of a movement than the positive aspects. It is what Dr. King talks about when he says more people being concerned with broken glass in Memphis than the man standing around with placard saying, I am a man, talking about justice and jobs. I think ultimately, what we should be focused on is making sure that we have a message that is clear, that resonates, and not allowing our anger to distract the mainstream from what we're actually trying to accomplish.</s>LEMON: Joe, I want to ask you about Ron Brownstein speaking to a Michigan-based Democratic consultant who says that there are red flags among young black men. What is it about President Trump that they like or maybe they don't like something about vice president or Democrats? Not necessarily because you don't like Biden that you're necessarily going to vote for Trump, but I think young black men or black men seem to be attracted to Trump and women to voting --</s>PINION: Let's be very clear. I think black women have always been the safeguard for the black community. With that comes the higher level of skepticism. But for black men who have been the highest of the largest victims of a war on drugs and unnecessary march towards war on crime, black men who are disproportionately impacted by all the negative aspects of society -- I think I talked to a colleague who did a poll, speaking to young black men who said that their hood didn't get better underneath President Obama and didn't get worse underneath President Trump. And so I think when you look at it from that perspective, black men who are having worse economic outcomes, worse work outcomes, I think at some point, they're willing to try something different because as Charlamagne spoke earlier, irrespective of the lip service that is given to black people, the outcomes inevitably lead to no change in outcomes when you talk about maintaining the status quo.</s>LEMON: Alicia, I have to ask you. Alicia, excuse me, I have to ask you. You have a whole chapter in your book on how voting can be a movement. What do you say to black voters who think that their vote doesn't matter, that it won't change anything?</s>GARZA: Well, the first thing I would say is that if your vote didn't matter, then people wouldn't be spending millions and millions of dollars trying to keep you from voting or trying to steal your votes. You know, my mom used to say that anything you leave on the table, you leave for somebody else to eat. That's exactly what we've seen over these last four years. And I will also be honest. In my book, I do talk about the failures of both parties to be able to address the concerns and needs of black communities. I've been saying for a very long time that for too long the black communities have been engaged symbolically but not substantively. That has consequences not just for our democracy but it also has consequences in relationship to the cynicism that people feel, that government or politicians or elected officials in general really care about black communities. And so the onus is really on us at this point. What I say to people who do not believe that elections matter is they absolutely do, but they're not the end all, be all. Quite frankly, elections are an opportunity for us to demonstrate how many people we've won over to our side.</s>LEMON: Right.</s>GARZA: It's an opportunity for us to display the organizing work that we have done. And it's also an opportunity for us to send up a flare to anybody who wants to represent us that they need to be worried about disappointing us, as well. So, if you want all of those things, it's important for you to vote. What I know about this election is it is going to have highest turnout of any election in the history of this nation, and I also know that black voters will be a critical part of that.</s>LEMON: Well, the book is called "The Purpose of Power: How We Come Together When We Fall Apart" by Alicia Garza. Thank you both. I appreciate it. I hope we get to talk more soon. Be well.</s>GARZA: Thank you so much, Don.</s>LEMON: Thank you. We'll be right back.

Democratic Activists Fighting at Grass Roots Level; Joe Biden Leading in CNN's Poll of Polls; Lori Goldman, Founder, Fems for Dems, and Leah Greenberg, Co-Founder, Indivisible, are Interviewed About 2020 Election and Trump; Breaking the Vicious Partisan Cycle; Interview With David Byrne; Interview With Harvard University Professor Danielle Allen.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're going to win. I wouldn't have said that three weeks ago. Three weeks ago, two weeks ago.</s>AMANPOUR: President Trump says he's got this, but Democrats beg to differ after spending four years building a countermovement. I speak to grass roots organizers, Leah Greenberg and Lori Goldman. Then --</s>DANIELLE ALLEN, POLITICAL THEORIST, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: At the end of the day, it markedly depends on a common purpose if we're going to have effective governance.</s>AMANPOUR: What if this democracy doesn't work for the majority anymore? Our Walter Isaacson speaks to Harvard professor, Danielle Allen, about breaking the vicious partisan cycle. And --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite all that's happened and despite all that's still happening, it's still a possibility.</s>AMANPOUR: A healing bomb for dystopian America. We celebrate HBO's new film version of "American Utopia" with a look back with at my interview with musician and star, David Byrn. Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. There are two weeks to go until the American election, either a blink of an eye or an eternity depending on how your mindset, and Donald Trump is playing defense on the campaign trail, holding non-socially distant rallies in key states like Arizona and Pennsylvania which he won in 2016. As new COVID cases rise to numbers not seen since the summer peak, Trump is torching his own scientific experts as one public health adviser calls, it attacking the fire department when the house is burning down. Meanwhile, Democrat, Joe Biden, leads in CNN's Poll of Polls by 53 percent to 42 percent, and he's on track to gather well more than the 270 electoral votes that he'll need to win the presidency. However, there are always the unknowns of actual election day or election week, as the case may be. 2020 is also a critical census year as each state gears up to apportion power over the next 10 years. In the 2010 census, Republicans racked up major advantages in Congress and the states. Now, Democratic activists are fighting back at the grass roots level. Leah Greenberg is the co-founder of the Indivisible Project and Lori Goldman launched her own action group, Fems for Dems. Ladies, activists, welcome to the program. Let me ask you what you -- you know, hear we are. We've said what the poll of polls is saying. We're talking about how they seem to be putting Vice President Biden ahead, but that President Trump feels that he might not have thought this a couple of weeks ago but now that he's sure that he's going to win. Let me ask you, Leah, you're with your husband former congressional staffers, you formed this project to get to the grass roots. What do you see as an avenue in terms of registration and other things that Republicans may be able to do to to actually pull out a victory? OK. No, not hearing you. OK. Lori, let me turn to you. Lori, let me turn to you because Fems for Dems is a really very, you know, catchy name, and what we're hearing, especially in the suburbs is the story of a gender gap and in certain major key swing states or key states, President Trump down by "record-breaking margins." What are you finding in those voters who you're trying to target?</s>LORI GOLDMAN, FOUNDER, FEMS FOR DEMS: Well, people are very excited. We still all have PTSD from our failure to elect Hillary Clinton as the first female president, but we're not losing hope, and we're not taking anything for granted like we did back in 2016. So, we're out on the streets. Even when a lot of Democratic Party and the Biden campaign wasn't out knocking doors, we thought it was very important to show that we're ready to go out and meet with the public and to let them know about our candidates and Joe Biden and his ticket and to get them motivated to vote. So, we're also working very hard to stop voter suppression and to counteract it because on the November 3rd voting day, we have to make sure people have access to vote, they have a way to get there, they have a chair to sit in for six or a seven-hour line, an umbrella to be held over their head and a tuna sandwich to keep them sustained until they can get into their voting box.</s>AMANPOUR: OK. The tuna sandwich, that sounds really good. I'm going to play a soundbite from President Trump about 10 days ago or so anyway, recently, when he appealed to those suburban, as he likes to call them housewives, and he was playing the whole, you know, '60s, Nixon law and order card. Let's just listen to it for a second.</s>TRUMP: I don't want to build low-income housing next to your house, OK. Suburban women, will you please like me?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.</s>TRUMP: Please, please. I saved your damn neighborhood, OK?</s>AMANPOUR: So, I don't know how you parse that but it's sort of a mixture of desperate and divisive because I'm not going to let them build low- income housing in your neighborhood is a dog whistle or it's a full- throated, you know, divisive connotation there. Just quickly, Lori, what are women saying in, for instance, Michigan, which he won by, you know, over 10,000 votes the last time around?</s>GOLDMAN: The women that I know, and they run in the thousands, and you can call us housewives, you can call us suburban, you can call us just women, we don't care what you call us. We're not stupid, and they are not stupid, and they don't even care what he says anymore. We're focused on the prize which is November the 3rd. So, we don't care what the president trots out to his acolytes, to the people that are star-struck and following him blindly. We're women. It's been hundreds of years since we've had our due. In fact, since the start of the world, and we're going to do what we want right now and keep going.</s>AMANPOUR: Let me turn to Leah. Back to you, Leah, now that we have your sound. As I was saying, you heard the president say, this is the first time I'm saying that maybe we have a path to victory. I might not have the said it a few weeks ago. And his campaign manager is at least briefing the press on what he wants them to hear, which is that he believes that the president has a path to that 270 electoral college magic number. What are you hearing on the street with your grass roots action group? What are you sort of tapping into right now?</s>LEAH GREENBERG, CO-FOUNDER, INDIVISIBLE: Well, what we're hearing when we do voter outreach is very much along the lines of what Lori said, people are tired and they are determined. They are tired of this administration. They are tired of the divisiveness. They are tired of the hatefulness. They are tired of the fact that they seem to be doing everything that they can to actively prolong the national ordeal that we're experiencing with COVID and they are determined. We talked to a lot of voters who are grateful to have information about how to vote but they are so fired up and so ready to vote they want to vote yesterday. So, what we're seeing is an unprecedented level of enthusiasm for voting this cycle and I think you're seeing that as well in the early voting totals.</s>AMANPOUR: And in terms of the voter registration, there are lots of anecdotal and polling information that shows that the Republicans seem to be targeting right now very heavily more and more voters to register. How are you seeing that play out in the neighborhoods where -- I know you're a Democratic activist, but you must know what the other camp is doing.</s>GREENBERG: Sure, and obviously you would rather see those totals be higher rather than lower for the Democratic side. That said, I think that's one stat among a lot that we are trying to put in context to understand the whole picture of what's going on. And one of the things we're seeing a lot of those voters, when you look at places like the Florida Panhandle, right, those are people who -- they switched from being Democrats to Republicans a while ago in their voting patterns, and they are actually just now getting around to formalizing their party status. So, those are people who -- they voted for Trump in 2016 and they have been factored into a lot of folks political analysis of what's going on at the moment. And so, while it is -- while it's not the best stat, we want to look at the full picture of enthusiasm of how -- who's turning out and how and the polls to make it make sense.</s>AMANPOUR: So, you did start this Indivisible Project along with your husband. I mean, you have both been congressional staffers and you wanted to get out there and do something different. What exactly are you doing? How does it work, your project?</s>GREENBERG: Well, we started Indivisible when we wrote a simple guide to congressional advocacy back in 2016 right after Trump had been elected, and the idea we very simple. We could replicate the Tea Party model of political activism, we could form local groups all over the country dedicated to pressuring our elected representatives to make sure they did not go along with Donald Trump, that they fought back, that they -- to save health care. And then ultimately, turn those into political action units that were capable of helping to build a big blue wave in 2018 and capable of helping to get Donald Trump out of office in 2020. So, we formed our organization after that guide went viral and thousands of people all over the country started forming Indivisible groups, small volunteer-based communities dedicated to action. And these have formed the basis for a lot of incredibly inspired, incredibly creative local organizing all over the country, from super rural areas to suburban areas to cities, red states, blue states, purple states. They are everywhere and they are really dedicated to getting Donald Trump out of office and holding everybody who has been behind him accountable right now.</s>AMANPOUR: If Leah has been, you know, in politics for a long, long time, Lori, you haven't, have you? You're not a politician. You're not a born activist. How did you come to this?</s>GOLDMAN: Well, in February of 2016, I was so inspired and motivated that Hillary Clinton, a woman, a credible woman that was talented and able to be a fine president was running that I took a leap, I sent an e-mail out to 500 women, mostly a few men that I knew, asking who wanted to join me to try to make sure that this dream that has been so forestalled happened, and I got a great response. And ever since then, women and men of all colors, all backgrounds, all sexual orientations from our home in Oakland County to all the surrounding counties and even other parts of the country and the world have been reaching out to join us. We believe super strongly in relational organizing. So, everything starts at home with your friends, your families, your neighbors, your hairdresser, your dog walkers, your grocer and out from there, and if everybody does that, we can build a very strong network of grass roots organizers which we have. We're over 9,000 strong right now and we keep in touch with everyone. We've built a family, a community as our board chair, Julie Campbell-Bode, for Fems for Dems like to say, we activate, we engage, we inform and when that election is over, we're not done because even though we hope to have a president worthy of the Oval Office, we're going to make sure we work towards addressing all of the wrongs that have recently come to fore and have been here for a long time.</s>AMANPOUR: And I just want to ask you about, because you are, I think, you know, going around knocking on doors in Oakland County, Michigan. Again, Michigan, the president won by over 10,000 votes. It's not a massive, massive amount, but he won it. And his slogan, the soundbite that I played, his idea that suburbs are all housewives women, that they are all white, has really, A, it's outdated and, B, it's caused a severe backlash. What are you seeing, Lori, when you're out there knocking on doors right now? Do you feel you have it in the bag for your team or not?</s>GOLDMAN: OK. I'm never going to have it in the bag after what happened in 2016. I'm never going to let myself feel that way but a big difference from 2016 is that people that used to support Trump are in big numbers saying, I'm sick of both of them. I'm just disgusted. I'm not going to vote for Trump. I may not vote for Biden, but I'm not voting for Trump anymore, and that's a huge change from 2016. People have been very gracious even when they are flying Trump flags and they have six-foot tall banners posted in their front yards. We still go to those doors. We knock on them and they may not agree with us and they may not be changing their vote, but they are not slamming the door in our faces. Because, Christiane, after this election is over, we still have to live with one another, all right, and there will be many more elections, God willing after this one. So, we have to be a community that we have to try to agree on those things that we can agree on and disagree on those things that we can't but we have to work together as a community. That's what Fems for Dems is trying to accomplish.</s>AMANPOUR: Well, that's really very encouraging, the idea of trying to knit back a very fractious society. I think a lot of people will be grateful to hear that there are activists trying to do that. Leah, you're also targeting up and down the ballot. So, you're talking about Senate races as well, there's some very tight races. And in terms of numbers, Republicans have to defend 23 Senate seats. Democrats only 12. What are you seeing about -- and what races are you focusing on in terms of the Senate?</s>GREENBERG: Well, what we're seeing with the Senate is that the map has expanded beyond what anyone would have thought were possible pickup opportunities even earlier this year. We are looking at races where people are getting scared in Texas and Alaska, where Iowa is now moving into a tossup or even a lame Democratic status. That is not what anyone predicted earlier in the year, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that these are folks who have tied themselves so closely to Donald Trump for the last four years and as his popularity is plummeting, so is theirs. So, you have folks like John Cornyn who is now, just now, in the last couple of weeks of this election, trying to distance himself from Donald Trump after four years of enabling his agenda, and it's not working out, and you don't do that unless you are seeing some pretty scary internal polling numbers and you are really starting to get worried. So, what we're seeing is the map is much bigger than we would have expected and there's going to be real surprises on election night.</s>AMANPOUR: You know, I talked about what Indivisible is aiming to do and you just mentioned also, and also, Lori, it's not just about the election, it's about after the election, it's about protecting democracy. What about the census? Leah, you're doing quite a lot of work to try to bolster the idea that the census actually does represent everybody who is eligible to be counted, and your aim is to fix, you know, democracy through electoral reform and campaign finance reform. How are you reading all the latest rules around the census, what, you know, the stopping of the count and this and that? Tell me how that's playing into your attempt to use that to continue this grass roots activism.</s>GREENBERG: Well, I think it's incredibly troubling what the Trump administration has been doing, and we should not be shy about recognizing that this is part of a broader project of theirs. They are trying to systematically undercount some sets of people so that they can actually maintain political power, and specifically, they are trying to undercount black and brown folks. The latest ruling particularly on -- their latest effort to not count immigrants specifically. This is all part of a political project that's about maintaining white control. It's about continuing to advantage largely more rural, more conservative whiter areas of the country over diverser areas. And so, we should be -- we should understand that in the same vain that we understand their voter suppression efforts, that understand their gerrymandering, that we see all of the attacks on protests. This is part of their effort to repress the power of the people.</s>AMANPOUR: And, Lori, finally to you, we've got a short period left. You know, everybody talked a lot about the biggest voting bloc. It's going to be millennials for the first time, you know, the baby boomers are not the biggest voting bloc for the 2020 election. What are you seeing not just in women mobilization but the youth in the areas that you're working?</s>GOLDMAN: Well, when we have been canvassing through the Oakland County and the Michigan Democratic Party, we've been sent to houses where I scratch my head because I know the people that live in the houses and I know they are staunch Republicans, but I look at the list and it's their 18, 19, 20 something-year-old children that are making the switch. They are not following their parents into their Republicanism. They are becoming Democrats and they are voting and they're voting in very large numbers. And I think that Trump has done himself no favors by being so behind the times in his feelings about minorities and immigration and health care and all the things that he's against. He's helped us immensely. Thank you, President Trump.</s>AMANPOUR: On that note, Lori Goldman and Leah Greenberg, thank you so much indeed for joining us. Now, while so much of politics in America today is about winner takes all, our next guest makes the case for unity. Harvard professor, Danielle Allen, is director of the University Center for Ethics, and she spearheads their COVID-19 response initiative. Here she is speaking to our Walter Isaacson about that major roadblock to governance as we've heard, rampant factionalism.</s>WALTER ISAACSON, CNN HOST: Thank you, Christiane. And Professor Danielle Allen, welcome to the show.</s>DANIELLE ALLEN, POLITICAL THEORIST, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Thanks so much, Walter. Good to be here.</s>ISAACSON: Now, we're going through a hellacious period and you've written a concept called "Becoming Citizen Again." What do you mean by that?</s>ALLEN: Well, I think for a long time many of us have sat back and sort of expected the powers at be to take care of our security and wellbeing. There's been reductions in participation, voting, so forth, we all know those facts and details. And I've really been working hard to try to reinvigorate civic spirit and encourage people to rejoin the community of free and equal self-governing citizens and participate directly in as many ways as possible.</s>ISAACSON: And you've won the Kluge Prize at the Library of Congress and part of that is our common purpose. Explain what you are doing with that.</s>ALLEN: Sure. Well, I was really fortunate to serve over several years on a commission sponsored by the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. I was investigating the future of democratic citizenship in American, and it was an incredible experience. We interviewed people all over the country, really learned about the challenges and obstacles of participation and thought about pathways to solutions. One of the things that came to the fore though really was the fact that we do lack a sense of common purpose in this country. And that's not a small thing. It's not sort of an airy fairy thing, because at the end of the day, a democracy depends on a common purpose if we're going to have effective governance. We have to be able to consolidate and converge and come together around some shared goal.</s>ISAACSON: And what is that common purpose in America?</s>ALLEN: Well, I think we have to make it. We have to get back to the business of making it. So, to take a very concrete example, when the COVID crisis hit, you might have thought that we would really have a strong common purpose that was about defeating the virus, really suppressing it. And to some extent, in the very early weeks that common purpose did exist but it fragmented really quickly. It got sucked into the kind of polarization and gridlock of fighting in Washington and we just short of watched the potential for a common purpose, you know, dissipate and fade away. That is an (ph) example of where we really needed a common purpose so that our federal governments, our state governments, our local governments could work in concert to suppress the virus. We could have achieved it. We could have really driven the spread back down to zero early on if we had the common purpose.</s>ISAACSON: I guess the evidence of common purpose is what the founders called factionalism. They kept warning against it. George Washington's, I guess, farewell address talks about that. Tell us what we learn from the farewell address.</s>ALLEN: Exactly. It's a really powerful speech. Washington warns about the dangers of faction. And his warning is really that once you have a situation where people aren't willing to focus on a unity principle, on coming together, then people really are fighting to the death and they will hand their fortunes over to whichever figure which seems more powerful in a near-term moment for getting an immediate victory. And so, people will sacrifice the sort of preservation of kind of a long-term structure for making decisions together just for their short-term wins and victories over their adversaries.</s>ISAACSON: Do you think we're seeing that now?</s>ALLEN: I do actually, yes. I think it's the thing that most afflicts our politics is that we've all become much more focused on complete victory over our adversaries than on the fact that our flourishing, our participation in society of free and equal self-governing citizens actually depends on our preserving the tools we use to make decisions together, it depends on being able to govern together, to find compromises, to forge solutions that bring together different interest perspectives. It's the ability to govern that way, again, with compromises, with some sympathetic solutions that make us free. That's the thing that we've lost sight of. So, we think we want a victory on climate or we think we want a victory on guns or we're pursuing those themes so aggressively that we're losing sight of the fact that we can't actually have any victories that matters if we've lost the freedom of sound, functioning constitutional democracy.</s>ISAACSON: But what do you say to Democrats who have, you know, faced four years of Trump with no compromise, no compromise? How do you tell them if Biden wins, you're now going to go back to the principles of compromise?</s>ALLEN: So, Mitch McConnell really, I think, has conveyed the politics of our age and certainly, the politics of the Republicans that have been practicing for the last period of years, and he's famously said, you know, winners make policy and losers go home. That's exactly the wrong way to think about democracy. But at the end of the day, there is no point in participating in a democracy unless -- even if you lose out in a particular vote, you're still incorporated in the overall decision-making. So, the right attituded is that winners get to chair the committee meetings where decisions are made but losers are still on the committee, and it's that orientation that we have to have. It's a big ask at this moment, I agree, when the Democrats have suffered under that incredible</s>ISAACSON: You talk about compromise and, you know, you're a great historian. Benjamin Franklin at the end of the constitutional convention sort of conveyed the message that compromisers may not make great heroes but they do make great democracies. I know in your report you quote the wonderful speech of Franklin, too. So, what do we learn from that?</s>ALLEN: So, the Franklin quote is really powerful. For me, in all honesty, it really cuts two ways. I mean, he stands up in the last day of the convention and says basically, it's time for us all to commit to this, whatever reservations we may have had about it will die here. We will never share them in the public. We'll all stand in full consent behind this. We use that in our commission when we're trying to develop recommendations for democracy innovation, democracy reform. We wanted to achieve consensus. People had different levels of preference or affirmation for the different proposals on the table, but we collectively agreed we would bury our reservations there in that committee room. So, Franklin does set a model for what you need in a democracy. I said his quotation cuts both ways and it does because, of course, in that context with the constitution, he was burying reservations as were others about the compromises around enslavement, for example, The Three-Fifths Clause that counted enslaved people as three-fifths of a free person, and there were people already, at that point of the convention, who did object to enslavement. You know, abolition had already been achieved by the time of the constitutional convention in both Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. So, the reservations were real and serious yet they accepted that compromise. For me, that really means you have to kind of bear down on the question of what makes a difference between a good compromise and bad compromise. Why would the slavery compromises be out of bounds? What counts as a good compromise?</s>ISAACSON: As you push back against the forces of faction and divisiveness, you talk about the need for unity. Is unity just a practical thing or is there a moral component to unity when it comes to the United States?</s>ALLEN: There is a moral component, and it comes back to this word I often use, human flourishing, OK. Now, there's probably a long distance of people wondering (ph) and how do you get from unity to human flourishing, Danielle? Explain that one. It comes back to the idea that human beings thrive to their fullest when they are empowered, when they are empowered to chart their own life course, or as we sometimes say, pursue happiness. And when they are empowered as decision-makers in their communities, contributing to our collective decisions. So, from my point of view, human beings thrive, again, they flourish when maybe well when they are empowered. That then leads to a puzzle. How do we maximize our chance for empowerment? The answer there is free self- government in a constitutional democracy. And the problem is, of course, you always have, in any given decision, people who win and people who lose, right? That's the problem. So, the number one problem that democracy has to solve is, what can make it worthwhile for the losers to continue to participate? Otherwise you start to fragment and break up. So, a commitment to free self-government is the thing that motivate people's willingness to go along with decisions even if they are not what their first choice would have been.</s>ISAACSON: You talked, too, about civility, but civility is not an indent of itself, right? Sometimes you need heavy pushback.</s>ALLEN: So, civility is not actually a word I use too much. I would separate unity from civility. So, I take unity to be that commitment to maintaining the institutions of free self-government among free and equal citizens, the institutions of constitutional democracy. You can fight hard in the context of maintaining that commitment. It's great when you can fight civilly, when you can have civil disagreements. But sometimes, there's a need for social movements or taking to the street as part of the element of fighting. So, it's more the commitment to the project of constitutional democracy, being able to convey that commitment through articulating, expressing what the vision for common purpose is, for being willing to tap into a personal love of country, share that love of country with the others. Those are the kinds of things I think that are important for anchoring common purpose.</s>ISAACSON: Senator Mike Lee said something a few days ago about democracy is not the objective, he said. He said liberty, peace and prosperity are. We want flourishing, as you put it, but rank democracy can thwart that. Is democracy simply a tool or is it actually an objective?</s>ALLEN: So, this is an important conversation. It's an objective, in the sense that democracy is a thing that we do. It's an activity. We are fulfilled in the activity of participating in constitutional democracy. Now, I have to, though, say a little bit more about Senator Lee's comment, because something really important is happening there. At the dawn of our country, at the dawn of our constitutional democracy, the founders used both the vocabulary of a republic and of a democracy. So, Hamilton in the Constitutional Convention in New York referred to what had been designed as a representative democracy. Madison, in the Federalist Papers, spent a lot of time saying it's a republic, not a direct democracy, like those ancient Athenians had, right? So, the vocabulary was all over the place. They did use both terms. But, in the 20th century, among Republican circles in particular, there's become a habit of saying that the country is a republic, not a democracy, that the founders chose a republic, not a democracy. And what people have meant by that is that the founders chose a hierarchically structured entity, not something that focused on universal suffrage, universal participation. This used to be a kind of pedantic red herring argument, but it is actually becoming an ideological argument. And this is the thing that I'm concerned about. So, I think, when Senator Lee said that, he is actually positively embracing a view that we should roll back the development of a robust commitment to universal suffrage, that we should roll back a commitment to egalitarian participation. So I think it was not a trivial comment. We have to pay attention to it. We should hear it. And it's a funny thing, where a red herring pedantic argument about, are we a republic or are we a democracy, has, I think, begun to turn into an actual ideological position.</s>ISAACSON: And do you tie that into voter suppression even?</s>ALLEN: This is my concern, yes. My concern is that, on the right, there is beginning to develop a proactive argument that is undercutting the hard-won commitment to universal suffrage.</s>ISAACSON: You're an African-American with, as you want to put it, a complex family history. How does that give you insight on what I would call our nation's complex family history?</s>ALLEN: Well, Ralph Ellison is one of my presiding spirits. We all have our few spirits who live in our heads and hearts every day. And Ralph Ellison was somebody -- he's got this beautiful essay. What would America be like without blacks, he said, and it's this incredible account of everything that exists in this country, and the ways in which African- American experience has given it meaning. And one of the things the African-American experience has given the deepest meaning to is the concept of freedom, OK? So, insofar as this is a liberty- loving country, well, African-Americans know that in a deeper and truer way than anybody. And that is, we -- it's universal. Everybody is part of that story, is in it, and welcome, and shares it absolutely. Others have their own stories of oppression and domination and escape that give them too that deep connection to the story of freedom. But it's just important to say that, because, sometimes, we think that these sort of ideals we have kind of came down on high from young men in white wigs, so that looked older than they actually were, but, in fact, it's the lived experiences of people in this country who struggle to achieve their own empowerment that have given us collectively our deepest understanding of the value of freedom.</s>ISAACSON: There's been a pushback on some of the historical American narrative, especially from progressives. Do you think, in some ways, that can go too far?</s>ALLEN: I think it has gone too far. So, the story about race, racial domination in this country, and its -- the depth of its impact is absolutely real and accurate. At the same time, however, the story of abolitionists and their hard work, which started already in the early 1700s, has disappeared from view. And it's really important to recognize that the voices of abolitionists were actually fundamental to the Declaration of Independence, to the Constitution. Their voices were already working at that point in time. And they gave this country gifts of vision that we're still working on achieving the full result of.</s>ISAACSON: You're teaching a course at Harvard this semester called After the Pandemic. And I guess we're all hoping for that. But what are we going to try to build after the pandemic to make it better than it was before?</s>ALLEN: Well, I hope we can achieve a new social compact. I was really personally shocked, at the start of this pandemic, by how quickly people were willing to abandon parts of our population, so, for example, the language about elderly Americans, maybe we should just let them go, it's their time, or the slowness that we had in terms of getting PPE and so forth with essential workers, this kind of thing. And so, from my point of view, a healthy society depends on a first principle being we don't abandon anybody. In a moment of crisis, we don't abandon anybody. We do the hard work of figuring out how we can maximize well-being, the health and safety of the people, for all. So, I think we need, honestly, articulation of a moral vision. We need leadership and doing that at all levels of our society. And then we need policies that make real that concept of not abandoning anybody, rebuilding a public health infrastructure. We have let that erode in this country, finally building a viable health infrastructure broadly for individual health and well-being, rebuilding foundations of educational opportunity, which have eroded significantly.</s>ISAACSON: So, how do we turn ourselves back to the right direction?</s>ALLEN: Well, so leadership at all levels matters, but every citizen can be a leader. That's the important thing. And so this is where I do think that, in every decision-making context, it's really important to be a bridge-builder, to find people who have different kinds of social experiences or different political perspectives, and try to figure out how to build a conversation in which you can participate together on decision-making. How can you rebuild, for your community, a sense that you want a social compact that really is good for all, where nobody's abandoned? What does that mean? I have had the pleasure of speaking with a number of mayors over the course of the last few months who are engaging their communities in exactly this kind of discussion. They're staging workshops and fora on the question what kind of social compact their cities want. And that feels to me like the work we have to do. We need to be in the same space, look at one another, and ask the question of how we can achieve well-being for all of us.</s>ISAACSON: Professor Danielle Allen, thank you for being with us.</s>ALLEN: Thank you, Walter. Thanks so much.</s>AMANPOUR: Really fascinating insights. Now, another sort of antidote to the toxic politics of today, to rave reviews, HBO has just launched the film adaptation of David Byrne's Broadway masterpiece "American Utopia." The film is directed by Spike Lee. Byrne, of course, headed the cult classic band Talking Heads. And with New York City's Broadway, London's West End, and live musical performances everywhere devastated by coronavirus, his new film is a reminder that the indomitable creative spirit will survive to flourish again. When I spoke with David Byrne in the before times, when Broadway was still packing the house, we talked about his vision of a diverse and harmonious American utopia.</s>AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.</s>DAVID BYRNE, CREATOR, "DAVID BYRNE'S AMERICAN UTOPIA": Thank you. Good to be here.</s>AMANPOUR: So, "American Utopia," it might sound a little sort of off- kilter really in this, as we've described, partisan and kind of toxic atmosphere. But you say it without any irony. I mean, you're quite careful to say this is not an ironic statement.</s>BYRNE: Yes, it's not meant ironically. It's meant to be -- well, as a friend from London who saw the show early on said, well, the utopia is right there on stage. We see it. We see what's possible. We see what can be or what we can aspire to. And it's not just like empty words. It's like there it is. There's evidence.</s>AMANPOUR: I mean, you took some very important themes and highlighted them. Give me one of them. The utopia, what do you see on the stage? You talk about your band, for instance.</s>BYRNE: Yes, the band is from a lot of different places all over the world. There's people from different races, different genders, yes, all that. It's very mixed up in a way I feel like, that's America. That's the America that I know. That's the America that I think what America stands for.</s>AMANPOUR: You're an immigrant yourself.</s>BYRNE: I'm an immigrant myself. I mentioned that. I mentioned that my parents brought me over from Scotland when I was little and that we've all made homes here.</s>AMANPOUR: And I just wonder what kind of reaction you get from the audience, from people who come back and see you. Well, what do they say about what you're trying to say and what you are saying there?</s>BYRNE: They tell me that it's -- well, they tell me that it gives them home, that it's a tonic, that it's something that they need right now, this sort of thing, which could make it sound like it's just like, oh, this is going to cheer you up. This is like a happy little thing. We hit on a lot of issues, we talk about a lot of things that are kind of dark, and -- but in the end, we kind of show you that here we are, we're together in this.</s>AMANPOUR: See, I think that's really interesting because, as you say, a lot of the music is very up, but as you've just touched on, there are issues that are very dark. And one of them, I just want you to explain. You asked Janelle Monae for her permission to sing her song, essentially in English. It's, what the hell are you talking about, but it's called -- what is...</s>BYRNE: "Hell You Talmbout."</s>AMANPOUR: Which is street talk, correct?</s>BYRNE: Yes, yes, yes.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes. And this is -- describe it. Describe what it is, because it's got audience participation, which I didn't expect.</s>BYRNE: Yes. It's a song that she sang at the Women's March years ago, and I heard a recording of it, and I thought it was incredibly moving. And, essentially, it's like a drum march kind of rhythm, drum line kind of thing with a kind of gospel shout. And, basically, it's just asking people to remember the names of these young people who have been killed, murdered, as many would say. And...</s>AMANPOUR: Police violence.</s>BYRNE: Yes, police violence. And it doesn't say anything else. It doesn't point fingers. It just says, remember their names.</s>AMANPOUR: Say their names, and we say their names.</s>BYRNE: Yes, the audience does that. And it's -- so, it's not us kind of assaulting the audience or accusing people. It's saying, just remember this. Remember this. Remember these lives that have been taken.</s>AMANPOUR: And you also again, mention, and it's very interesting, because you say, have you seen -- in the lobby, we've got these big signs that say, register to vote. Why did you decide to do that?</s>BYRNE: I have been doing that for a long time. Voter turnout -- voter turnout, as I mention in the show, the turnout for the 2016 election was the best it had been in decades in the United States. And it was 55 percent, which to me is still kind of pathetic. I'm personally in favor of mandatory voting.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes, like the Australians do, and it's very successful.</s>BYRNE: Yes, the Australians do it. They do it in Brazil. They do it in other places. It's not perfect. Some people don't vote, and they just pay the fine. But, overall, it does better. And the idea that everyone has a voice is a big start at fixing a lot of things.</s>AMANPOUR: So, for those who will remember you, obviously, from the Talking Heads, your body movement was very sort of rigid. You were kind of rooted to the floor in front of the mic, and it was just very different. Here, you look much more expansive. Your movement is much more joyful or unbridled. What's happened in the interim?</s>BYRNE: You know, we get older. And it's not just age, but it's kind of like, as time goes by, we change as people. We're not the same people we were 20, 30 -- I don't know how long it is -- years ago.</s>AMANPOUR: About 40-ish.</s>BYRNE: Yes, 40 years ago. And it's -- yes. There's things that get lost. There's qualities that get lost. Some of that kind of angst and rigidity is kind of charming in a way, and the fact that it's not entirely there anymore might be seen as a loss. But there's other things that get gained.</s>AMANPOUR: Well, you were actually, also, I think, saying something. I think you were talking about back then stripping away, the stripped-back nature of the music and the performance in the '80s.</s>BYRNE: Yes. In the early days, yes, I wanted to strip everything back and say, OK, we're not going to have any received notions. We're not going to dress like rock stars. We're not going to move like rock stars. We're not going to do all the things that maybe we're supposed to do. We're going to start from nothing, take everything down, start from nothing, and let's build things, add things on that really feel like they belong to us.</s>AMANPOUR: See, you're still not dressed like a rock star. You've always really worn the suit, and you're still wearing it.</s>AMANPOUR: And you wear it on -- in "American Utopia" as well. Does the suit say something? It was a feature in the film "Stop Making Sense."</s>BYRNE: Very early on in my career, I tried wearing a suit on stage, and I bought a very cheap suit at an outlet downtown. And then, in a rock club, it gets very, very sweaty. So, I threw it in the washing machine, and it just shrunk.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes.</s>BYRNE: And I realized, at this stage in my career, this is not a very practical thing. But the idea was, I wanted to look like every man. I wanted to look like I wasn't wearing -- what you would expect a performer...</s>AMANPOUR: You weren't Elton John, let's say, in terms of stage presence.</s>BYRNE: No, I wasn't Elton John. But I wanted to look like -- I wanted my outfit to disappear. It's not possible. I was deceiving myself. But I wanted my outfit to disappear, and so that what I was saying, what I was doing, the music would be what you paid attention to, not the other kinds of trappings. I learned better, that you can't make things disappear.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes, maybe. You made your shyness maybe disappear. I -- you know, in reading about you and listening to previous interviews, I was quite surprised to hear how shy you were as a child, and, obviously, how not you are now. Tell me about the shyness and what the stage meant for you.</s>BYRNE: Yes, I was very shy, as a child. As a young adult performing. I would do -- be my crazy self on stage, and then retreat and kind of not talk to anyone afterwards or go into a corner, all those kinds of things. To a lot of people, that seems like, how could you do that? How could you be on stage if you're shy? But that explains it exactly. That became my outlet, my way to kind of put myself out in the world, to say what I had to say, to communicate to people, to announce my existence. And then I could close up again. And, gradually, I think by playing music, my career, working with musicians, performing, the joy of performing and music, I think it started to change. It's sort of like I invented my own therapy.</s>BYRNE: And, over the years, it worked.</s>AMANPOUR: OK. So, that leads me to, obviously, the Talking Heads. You founded this group with your other members there, and then it kind of broke up somewhat acrimoniously. Why did it -- why was it acrimonious, the breakup? And Tina Weymouth, who was the bassist, right, she...</s>BYRNE: Yes. Yes.</s>AMANPOUR: She had something like, David Byrne doesn't react emotionally. He doesn't react emotionally with us. Tell me about what was going on. Do you accept that?</s>BYRNE: I don't remember exactly, but she might have -- there might be a grain of truth to that. I can accept that I may have been a somewhat colder, less understanding person than I was -- than I am now. A lot of people say this, but I tend to think that it's true, that I think a lot of our parting was very musical. I had gotten very interested in Latin and Brazilian rhythms and all this kind of thing, which meant that I really had to work with other -- other kinds of musicians, which I did.</s>AMANPOUR: And you not only did that. I mean, you scored the original score for "The Last Emperor." You won an Oscar for that. You have got all sorts of other interests, including -- I mean, I know that you biked over here. You are a fervent biker, in terms of bicycle. You have got a charity for that, like, Bike Rack, you started?</s>BYRNE: Oh, I did some Bike Racks for the city and for the Academy of Music in Brooklyn and different places. I started biking quite a while ago as just a way of getting around in New York. It seemed very practical, a little risky. It's gotten easier. There's more secure bike lanes now. You can get from one place to another in a very kind of protected way that you couldn't before. But I found it just a joy, the kind of -- this idea of floating under your own power, the wind in your face, and you can stop and look at things or examine stuff or go into a shop, or whatever it might be, whenever you want. You feel like it's just you floating through all this -- not through heavy traffic, I hope.</s>AMANPOUR: It's good for your mind.</s>BYRNE: Yes, I found it really good for my mind. It cleared my mind on my way to work in the morning going to an office or whatever. It kind of clears your mind or you -- and, at the same time, you're kind of thinking about what you're going to do that day. It's like when you sleep on an idea and you wake up and you have the solution. It does a little bit of that. Of course, there's other benefits, like your carbon footprint and all that kind of stuff. But I -- to me, that's not the reason I did it. I do it because it feels good.</s>AMANPOUR: I want to play a little clip that we have of -- I mean, it's a long time ago now. It was a performance you did on "The South Bank Show." And it's a classic Talking Heads, "Psycho Killer."</s>AMANPOUR: So that was a little clip. What do you feel when you see that? Do you miss the Talking Heads?</s>BYRNE: No, not so much. I mean, I have gone on to do a lot of things. The fact that now I have ended up with a show that is incredibly emotional, which I thought, me, me do something incredibly emotional? Look -- look where you have come to.</s>AMANPOUR: So, tell me. That's interesting, because I did bring that up a moment ago, but doing smaller, intimate gatherings, what does that mean for you? What sort of different vibe do you get from that?</s>BYRNE: There's a much more intimate connection. There's a much more -- a closer connection with the audience. And they feel closer to us as performers. For me, it gives me an opportunity kind of to take things a little slower, step by step, tell a story, take the audience on a journey, whereas, with a big concert, it's kind of like entertainment and celebration and everybody have a good time. But, in this, you can kind of connect the dots and take people from one thing to another, where it actually leads somewhere.</s>AMANPOUR: So, what else is next for you?</s>BYRNE: I have a couple of things I'm working on. Thank you for asking.</s>BYRNE: I guess it's what's called solutions-journalism project...</s>AMANPOUR: Serious.</s>BYRNE: ... called Reasons to Be Cheerful.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes.</s>BYRNE: We're very small, but we're doing work and putting out articles and posts and things like that of successful initiatives that we find around the world.</s>AMANPOUR: So, give me an example.</s>BYRNE: Oh, OK.</s>AMANPOUR: I mean, you see something and then you match it with something cheerful; is that right?</s>BYRNE: Well, we -- it's generally some sort of -- some problem in the world, and we found -- find a place that has found a solution to that, and we want to make that known. Like, here's -- so, for instance, I think the last two pieces that I wrote were on housing. Housing is a huge issue in London, New York, San Francisco, you name it, housing, homelessness, all these kinds of things. Sol, I asked some people. And they said, OK, you should check out Vienna and Singapore, two different, very different places, very different approaches to this. But both of them in their own ways have kind of solved the housing problem. And, in the process, they solve other problems. For instance, Vienna -- it's a long story, but in...</s>AMANPOUR: And we have only got 30 seconds.</s>BYRNE: Yes. In solving the housing problem, housing for everyone in the city, they have also made it so that you can't tell how wealthy someone is by their address.</s>AMANPOUR: OK.</s>BYRNE: Everything is -- everyone is mixed up.</s>AMANPOUR: Reasons to Be Cheerful there. And, of course, one of the reasons to be cheerful is the idea of being able to sit together without masks and have real conversations. And, of course, that show is now a film, and it's available on HBO Max, part of Warner Media, the parent company of CNN. And, of course, for many around the world right now, renewed cheer and light at the end of a long, dark tunnel would come in the form of a COVID vaccine. China is cautiously, but steadily rolling out trials of its version. And correspondent David Culver went to the city of Yiwu, an international trading hub close to Shanghai, to meet the people who are eager to get in line.</s>DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They arrived early from all over China, folks lured to the international manufacturing hub of Yiwu city, specifically to this small community hospital. This is one of the first public locations where China's rolled out an experimental COVID -- 19 vaccine. They began injecting people over the weekend. The cost, about 60 U.S. dollars for two doses. Word spread quickly. Some showed up Monday thinking they would get a shot, Annie Choo (ph) among them. This is something important to you. Isn't it? I asked her. Yes, she replied. Adding, because, well, if you have the vaccine it's much safer to leave the country. For more than 20 years, Choo's worked in import/export, in Chili and returned home to China amidst the outbreak. She flew to Yiwu the night before we met her. It's a two-hour flight from her home in southern China. Either and admittedly a bit desperate for immunity. (on camera): And so, they told you they don't have any and so you have to go and find another place. (voice-over): Hospital staff confirmed to CNN they had run out. Local officials later announced this distribution was only for those with specific foreign travel needs and pre-approval. Choo was not the only one disappointed. Notice the groups of people waiting around the hospital parking lot. Some of them traveled in from neighboring provinces, wanting the vaccine. (on camera): Yes, would you take the vaccine? (voice-over): Originally from Syria, we met Anas Chahouta, as he pulled up with his young daughter and wife in the backseat of their car. He was curious, if not also a bit hesitant. (on camera): If you were to walk in there, and they had it, would you take it today?</s>ANAS CHAHOUTA, YIWU RESIDENT: Actually, I don't know, I don't have the answer.</s>CULVER: As you kind of go through this main interest here, we do know folks are going in to inquire about how they might be part of this trial, essentially. Because you've got to remember, this is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government. This is not an actual release of an approved drug as of yet. (voice-over): The vaccine distributed at this Yiwu hospital is made by Sinovac Biotech. CNN took you through the Beijing-based biotech company in August. It is more than a dozen Chinese companies working on a coronavirus vaccine. At the time of our visit in late summer, they were construct a new facility to meet the production demands, while still going through phase 3 clinical trials which have not yet concluded. It all seemed to be happening at rapid speeds.</s>HELEN YANG, SINOVAC YOU BIOTECH: None of the staff is sacrificing any quality of our vaccine, because Sinovac's goal is to provide a vaccine that's good quality, good safety, good immunogenicity, to the people in the world.</s>CULVER: China has been trying to push past the early allegations of mishandling, cover ups and silencing of whistle-blowers surrounding the initial outbreak in Wuhan. And instead, officials here have highlighted their swift and seemingly successful responses to many cluster outbreaks, the most recent, Qingdao, last week following a major travel holiday. After only a handful of confirmed cases surfaced health officials began strict contact tracing and tested more than 10 million people in less than a week, and life it seems quickly returned to near normal again. But that's mostly within China, a bubble of sorts. For some whose livelihood is rooted in other parts of the world where cases are surging once again, their only hope may be the vaccine. Annie Choo and others on to the next location to track one down. David Culver, CNN, Yiwu, China.</s>AMANPOUR: David Culver for us there. And, finally, last week, we reported on this program that tens of thousands of people around the world, predominantly young, had signed up to get deliberately infected with the virus in order to help fight it. Well, now the British government has approved this first human challenge study at Imperial College London in the form of controlled clinical trials. It's all part of the effort to understand the virus better, faster, and find a vaccine. And two volunteers told us why this is so important to them.</s>ALASTAIR FRASER-URQUHART, VOLUNTEER: I can potentially protect thousands of other peoples from having to be infected without consenting to it.</s>ESTEFANIA HIDALGO, VOLUNTEER: This was a way for me to take great control of the situation, to be like, OK, I can do this, to make it better. I chose not to be in fear.</s>AMANPOUR: A reminder of just how seriously the younger generation is taking the situation and how much they want to be part of the solution to the crisis of their lifetimes. That's it for now. You can always catch us online, on our podcast and across social media. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London. END

The Hunt for a COVID-19 Vaccine; Fauci: Reopening Too Quickly Makes Virus Hard to Contain

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all know a vaccine is needed to help end the pandemic.</s>DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government.</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alastair Fraser-Urquhart desperately wants to be infected with the coronavirus.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I woke up thinking about</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard to be optimistic about people even taking a vaccine when they won't wear a mask.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.</s>BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, we need a cure. But how close are we?</s>ANDERSON: This is the dashboard of where we are right now. In the global race for a vaccine. But it belies a far more complex patchwork of trials and challenges around your world. And that is what we will be connecting you to this hour. The global challenge that has defined 2020 then, beginning to face what could be its global solution. At each end of the Earth, from halls of power in London, where the government has just signed a contract for the first human challenge studies into COVID-19, to the halls of a hospital in China, where an experimental dose of vaccine already on sale to some, COVID-19 now finally being met on a level where its enormous power can potentially be tackled head-on, a microscopic one, while, of course, so much about the virus remains unknown still. The exact same applies to a vaccine. That's something the WHO's top scientists have been keen to point out, urging that the only real certainty is uncertainty itself. Have a listen.</s>SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN, WHO CHIEF SCIENTIST: Well, we can be optimistic but there's still an "if" there. We have a large number of vaccines in development. So we are very hopeful that a couple of them or several of them will actually turn out to be safe and effective. We still haven't seen the results of any phase 3 clinical trials.</s>ANDERSON: So let's be very clear, it is still an "if, not when," when it becomes a safe and effective vaccine. Still, enormous efforts being made to secure a cure. Phil Black is in London. David Culver is in Beijing. Let me start with you, what's the vaccine story, David, on the ground in China?</s>CULVER: Becky, remarkably, people are so eager, I would even say desperate at times to get a part of this vaccine, part of what is still an experimental trial, because as you pointed out it's still an experimental vaccine. People still want to take part in it, not because of what's happening on the ground, we're in a bubble of sorts, it's about pursuing things outside of China, be it professional, educational. And for that reason, they want to get hold of those vaccines.</s>CULVER (voice-over): They arrived early from all over China, folks lured to the international manufacturing hub of Yiwu city, specifically to this small community hospital. This is one of the first public locations where China's rolled out an experimental COVID-19 vaccine. They began injecting people over the weekend. The cost, about $60 U.S. for two doses. Word spread quickly; some showed up Monday thinking they'd get a shot. Annie Koo (ph) among them. "This is something really important to you, isn't it?" I asked her. "Yes," she replied, adding, "because, well, if you have the vaccine, it's much safer to leave the country." For more than 20 years, she has worked in import-export in Chile (ph) and returned home to China amidst the outbreak. She flew to Yiwu the night before we met her. It's a two-hour flight from her home in southern China.</s>CULVER (voice-over): Eager and admittedly a bit desperate for immunity.</s>CULVER: So they told you they don't have any and you have to find another place?</s>CULVER (voice-over): Hospital staff confirmed to CNN that they had run out. Local officials later announced this distribution was only for those with specific foreign travel needs and preapproval. She was not the only one disappointed. Notice the groups of people waiting around the hospital parking lot, some of them of traveling in from neighboring provinces, wanting the vaccine.</s>CULVER: Would you take the vaccine?</s>CULVER (voice-over): Originally from Syria, we met this man as he pulled up with his young daughter and wife in the back seat of their car. He was curious, if not also a bit hesitant.</s>CULVER: If you were to walk in there and they had it, would you take it today?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, I don't know. I don't have answer.</s>CULVER: As you can go into the main entrance here, we know folks are going in to inquire how they might be part of this trial. You've got to remember, this is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government. This is not the actual release of an approved drug as of yet.</s>CULVER (voice-over): The vaccine distributed is made by Sinovac Biotech. CNN took you through the Beijing base in August. It's more than one of a dozen Chinese companies working on a coronavirus vaccine. At the time of our visit in late summer, they were constructing a new facility to meet the production demands while still going through phase 3 clinical trials, which have not yet concluded. It all seemed to be happening at rapid speeds.</s>HELEN YANG, SINOVAC BIOTECH: None of the staff is sacrificing any quality of our vaccine. So because Sinovac's goal is to provide a vaccine with good quality, good safety, good immunogenicity to the people in the world.</s>CULVER (voice-over): China's been trying to push past the early allegations of mishandling, cover-ups and silencing of whistleblowers surrounding the initial outbreak in Wuhan. Instead, officials here have highlighted their swift and seemingly successful responses to many cluster outbreaks, the most recent in Qingdao last week, following a major travel holiday. After only a handful of confirmed cases surfaced, health officials began contact tracing and tested more than 10 million people in less than a week. And life, it seems, quickly returned to near normal again. But that's mostly within China, a bubble of sorts; for some whose livelihood is rooted in other parts the world where cases are surging once again, their only hope may be the vaccine. Annie Koo (ph) and the others now on to the next location to track one down.</s>CULVER: And, Becky, that's what stood out to us as we were there, folks flying in from all over from Chinese and other provinces with no guarantee that they could get a vaccine and then no guarantee that this vaccine was even effective. It's still experimental, still in phase 3. Late today, we did hear from two of the companies behind some of the vaccines here. Four of the vaccines are in phase 3 clinical trials. They say they've already been administered to 60,000 people here within China. That does not even include those part of the emergency use approval, the military, front line workers, et cetera.</s>CULVER: Fascinating. David is in Beijing for you. As I said at the beginning of this, having lived through this thing from start to finish there. Phil -- thank you, David. The U.K. giving the go-ahead for healthy volunteers to get deliberately infected with COVID-19. Not to put too fine a point on this, but willingly getting infected seems like a very, shall we say, brave choice?</s>BLACK: Indeed, brave. They will be financially compensated but not to the point that it incentivizes their involvement. It's going to happen here at London's Royal Free Hospital. This is where doctors will be doing that quite extraordinary thing, deliberately exposing these volunteers to the coronavirus. To begin with, they're not going to be dealing with vaccines. The goal will be to make these volunteers ill, to make them unwell. It is ethically challenging and potentially risky. But as many advocates around the world believe it could play a key role in helping to identify the most promising vaccines of the many being developed currently.</s>BLACK (voice-over): Alastair Fraser-Urquhart desperately wants to be infected with the coronavirus.</s>ALASTAIR FRASER-URQUHART, CHALLENGE TRIAL VOLUNTEER: I've just got an email.</s>BLACK (voice-over): He's part of the campaign group One Day Sooner. It's been busy recruiting COVID-willing volunteers, so far tens of thousands around the world, and lobbying the U.K. government to use them for potentially risky research.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: I wake up thinking about challenge trials and I go back to bed thinking about challenge trials.</s>BLACK (voice-over): Challenge trials involve giving healthy people a potential vaccine like this one developed by London's Imperial College, then later testing it by deliberately dosing them with the virus.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: By taking that small risk on myself, I can potentially protect thousands of other people from having to be infected without consenting to it.</s>BLACK (voice-over): Advocates say challenge trials are more efficient than the usual method, waiting for large numbers of test subjects to be exposed to a specific virus in the real world. With numerous COVID-19 vaccines being developed, some scientists believe challenge trials could help them to identify the best of them sooner.</s>DR. MARTIN JOHNSON, SENIOR MEDICAL DIRECTOR, HVIVO: At the moment, the government is having to buy at risk lots of different vaccines, hoping one is going to work.</s>BLACK (voice-over): Dr. Martin Johnson works for hVIVO, the testing company hired by the British government to set up challenge trials for three possible vaccines. Its London facility has years of experience running similar programs with influenza and other viruses. But working with this new coronavirus is far riskier. The trials will be conducted at London's Royal Free Hospital, which has the U.K.'s only category 3 biocontainment ward. And the first round of volunteers will be exposed to the virus without getting a vaccine.</s>JOHNSON: We're basically watching disease in motion, right from the very start of the inoculation, right through to the disease going out of the body. So it gives us an absolute view of what is happening to the human body during an infectious process.</s>BLACK (voice-over): The company says challenge trials can be conducted safely because treatments are now available, like the antiviral, remdesivir, and the steroid, dexamethasone. But the World Health Organization recently found remdesivir doesn't appear to save COVID-19 patients' lives or help them recover sooner. And the data on dexamethasone is still early and limited. The ethics of the trials will be closely scrutinized. England's regulator will have to be convinced the risk is worth the potential reward.</s>TERENCE STEPHENSON, ENGLAND'S HEALTH RESEARCH AUTHORITY: A challenge trial would have to make the cogent argument that the benefits to society greatly outweigh the risk and that that evidence of those data could be achieved in a simpler or safer way.</s>BLACK (voice-over): Volunteers will be strictly screened to include known risk factors. So those selected must fit a limited profile. They will have to be young and very healthy. Alistair hopes he's in with a chance.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: If ever it's a time to push the boundaries and discover how quickly we can do stuff and how well we can do stuff, to take on risks for other people is now.</s>BLACK: Becky, as recently as a few months ago, the doctors say they couldn't have advanced this idea, this proposal, to deliberately expose people to the virus because their medical understanding of it wasn't sufficient to believe they could guarantee the volunteers' relative safety. They believe now they can manage that risk. But they can't do away with it entirely, because, as we know -- and this is the key ethical point -- there still is no guaranteed treatment for COVID-19.</s>ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. Phil, thank you for that. We will speak next hour with the chief scientific officer of the company leading those human challenge trials for a COVID-19 vaccine and putting some of the questions that Phil raised in his report to him. The search for a vaccine is offering a lot of hope. I discussed the practical, economic and moral imperative of a vaccine with Melinda Gates, whose foundation has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to research, testing and the vaccine effort as well as the International Monetary Fund chief Kristalina Georgieva. Have a listen.</s>MELINDA GATES, THE BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: It's important that we take care of everybody. And we have to look at who's struggling the most and who's going to help us get back on our feet the quickest. If you take the first 2 billion doses of vaccines and they only get out to the high-income countries, you're going to get twice as much death. I don't think we want to see twice as much death in the world. And if we're going to have a swifter recovery, you have global cooperation. And what we're seeing is that, yes, the high-income countries can put a lot of money into vaccines. But they're going to spend $1.3 trillion in a bidding war on vaccines unless they go through this ACT-Accelerator. There's an arm of it that works on vaccines. And if they go through that global cooperation, they'll bring down the price by 13 times. They'll spend $110 billion to save trillions of dollars to get our economies regrowing, which will grow the whole world economy again. It just makes sense economically as well.</s>KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: The International Monetary Fund concentrates on the economics of how we answer your question. And the economics is very clear.</s>GEORGIEVA: We have just calculated that, if we get vaccines accelerated in terms of distribution and everybody lines up to be vaccinated as quickly as possible, we are going to generate additional $9 trillion between now and 2025.</s>ANDERSON: How concerned are you, Melinda, about the anti-vaxers out there and those, the cohort of people who are, it seems, infecting others with this idea that these vaccines may just not been safe for them? You've seen this before in your work in the field. How damaging is this?</s>GATES: Yes, this information causes deaths. When this vaccine is available, are you going to believe something on the Internet or you read from somebody who's in politics or your, you know, somebody who doesn't know you? Or are you going to speak to your pediatrician and your doctor and figure out if this is right for you and your family? That's where you go. And I believe once that momentum starts and people see that it is safe, they have to know their body's safe when they put it in.</s>ANDERSON: Melinda Gates and Kristalina Georgieva speaking to me recently. Lots of questions then about who will get a safe and effective vaccine when we get one, if we get one and why. Let's bring in chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. You spoke yesterday to Dr. Anthony Fauci, part of the U.S. Coronavirus Task Force. And he said there may not be a situation where the first vaccine available will be the one that everybody takes. Can you explain?</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we've been talking about the vaccine as a singular entity. But as you well know, Becky, there are several vaccines sort of going through these trials. A few of them are pretty far along. So there may be more than one vaccine. We're getting a better idea of who should first get the vaccine. But we could run into a situation where some vaccines are better for certain people versus others. I asked Dr. Fauci about this yesterday. Here's how he framed it.</s>GUPTA: There's going to be different versions of the vaccine. You got the iPhone 10, iPhone 11. That's the way somebody framed that question to me recently. But should everyone go and get the first iPhone, if they can, if they qualify? Or would people be reasonable to say hey, look, I'm going to wait for version 2 to come out, which is more likely to be more effective or safer, whatever?</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We'll see a hierarchy of recommendations of who should get the vaccine. And I think you have to factor into that how effective it is and what risk category, you as an individual, are in.</s>GUPTA: And let me say something else, Becky, it's interesting because, if you talk about people who are elderly, who have pre-existing conditions, obviously, a vaccine that can prevent them from developing significant disease is going to be the core sort of thing, requirement of that vaccine. For young people, who are far less likely to get sick, you obviously want the vaccine to prevent them from getting ill but also to really reduce the viral load in their nose and their mouth because one of the big concerns about younger people is that they are transmitters of this. So you get the idea , again, you may have people who absolutely need the vaccine right away; other people who may get different vaccines, depending on their overall condition.</s>ANDERSON: There are so many questions, aren't there, that still need answers, not the least, the if or when we'll actually get an effective and safe vaccine. The speed at which these trials are going on, you and I discussed, the development of a vaccine is super quick at the moment. And then it's a question of who gets any safe and effective vaccine and why. All the major indicators, meantime, in the United States, Sanjay, it seems, are heading in the wrong direction. You spoke about that as well, as I understand it, with Dr. Fauci. Does he think we would be in this awful situation if the U.S. had just followed the guidelines put forward by the White House Coronavirus Task Force and, indeed, the CDC?</s>GUPTA: No, he thinks that we would be in a very different situation, you know, Becky. And there are plenty of examples around the world, mostly talking about Asian countries -- South Korea, for example but also Australia. These were the criteria, you remember, Becky, just for reopening. You just needed to see cases going down for 14 days, illness going down for 14 days; making sure you had enough testing in place; that hospitals weren't becoming overwhelmed. At the time these criteria were released, everyone seemed to agree with them, they were released at the White House.</s>GUPTA: And the reason this criteria makes sense, if you do this, basically 14 days' downward trend means you've got the virus in sort of more of a containment mode, as opposed to starting to develop into linear and then exponential growth. So had we followed these, we would certainly be in a much different position. I asked him about that; here's what he said.</s>GUPTA: When things began to open, they skipped over the benchmarks and the gateways and the different phases and, in some areas, essentially let it fly, as it were. So we wound up getting these surges. And when you get a surge, Sanjay, you have such a level of community spread that it makes containment and control very, very difficult.</s>GUPTA: You know, Becky, one thing that Dr. Fauci says and others have taken pains to say is that they're not advocating for lockdown. That would be a worst-case scenario sort of picture. But there are five things which, if you implemented broadly across a large society -- United States, wherever -- it would start to bring the trajectory of the virus down within a few weeks. It will sound boring, Becky, to recite these things again but wearing a mask whenever you go outside, maintaining physical distance, avoiding closely clustered indoor settings like bars, large gatherings; and wash hands. Everyone is talking about the vaccine understandably. But in your last interviews, you just heard, wearing the mask when you go outdoors can be really effective at breaking these cycles of transmission. That's the key. And I think the evidence is becoming really compelling around that.</s>ANDERSON: Absolutely. Look, you know, the message is that the U.S., as far as COVID is concerned, it has to be said, reflected in other parts of the world, Europe, in an awful mess as far as COVID-19 is concerned. And in the Czech Republic, where masks were mandatory, was a sort of poster child for a period of time, people got a little complacent, fatigued with the whole thing. And hey, presto, they have a horrible situation once again. Finally, Sanjay, I just want to get your reaction to this.</s>TRUMP: They're getting tired of the pandemic, aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN, that's all they cover. COVID, COVID, pandemic, COVID, COVID, COVID. Huh-uh-uh. You know why? They're trying to talk everybody out of voting. People aren't buying it, CNN, you dumb bastards.</s>ANDERSON: Right? I mean --</s>GUPTA: Well --</s>ANDERSON: -- Sanjay --</s>GUPTA: -- I mean, Becky, this is not a -- well, what can one say to this, right? We are going through the worst public health disaster of a century. Here in the United States, you know, 217,000 people have died. We've become so inured to this now that the president is basically dismissing it. I mean, it's awful. And the numbers aren't getting any better, Becky. People have these artificial benchmarks, the election: the virus doesn't care about an election. The end of the year: the virus doesn't care about the end of the year. We have to act. Again, it wasn't even about shutting down. The countries in the world -- as you well know, Becky, we've been reporting on this for months now -- the countries in the world that did the best both economically as well as controlling the virus just acted aggressively early on. And so many places have returned to some sense of normalcy. It is possible, on an optimistic note, Becky, it is still possible. It's awful and families watching who have lost somebody, the last thing they want to hear is that their loved one died a preventable death. But many more preventable deaths do not need to happen if we just adopt these basic public health measures.</s>ANDERSON: And that is a fact. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, always a pleasure, thank you. We have -- already have -- something that experts like Sanjay tell us are as effective as a vaccine, that we just repeat for the sake for everybody who may have just been joining us, I don't know, or those who weren't listening or those who haven't heard this before. Good hygiene, wash your hands, socially distance, wear a mask. Come on, folks, it can cut down the number of cases by 90 percent. That is the bottom line. Well, coming up on CONNECT THE WORLD, we're just hours away from a self- imposed deadline in Washington with trillions of dollars on the line. Plus, Irish officials call it a preemptive strike. Why they're reimposing some of the toughest COVID-19 restrictions in Europe. First up, though, why Israel says this will be a day remembered for generations as it cements deals for the United Arab Emirates. We're live for you in Tel Aviv.

Trump Willing to Go Higher on Stimulus Deal.

ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. This is CNN, I'm Becky Anderson. Right now, we're just hours away from a self-imposed deadline in Washington, where potentially trillions of dollars are at stake if a stimulus deal cannot be struck. It could be as large as 10 percent of the American economy. That matters because, of course, the world's largest economy by far is the States. So if it doesn't work in full capacity, it affects all of us, wherever you are, watching in the world. You can see just how enormous it is on the chart. Last week, I spoke with Melinda Gates and Christiana Georgiana, the head of the IMF. You heard some of that conversation. Christiana, the MD at the IMF, told me, oddly enough, that governments should be going on a spending spree right now. Have a listen.</s>CHRISTIANA GEORGIANA, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: We are under the pressure of this pandemic. And it is very strange for many people, that the head of the IMF tells governments, please spend. Support your doctors, support the vulnerable parts of your economy. Keep the receipts. There has to be accountability for what you spend. But please spend. Why? Because if you stop with the economy putting a -- for weeks in a standstill and then for many more weeks in a unstable place, then we can have catastrophic impact on the well-being of people, with massive bankruptcies and massive unemployment.</s>ANDERSON: Let's bring in CNN's political commentator and former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang, now proud owner of the #YangGang. Andrew, you just tweeted, today would be a great day to get this sorted. Will it get sorted today?</s>ANDREW YANG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I am cautiously optimistic, Becky, because so much is at stake here. And it is the case that the government should keep spending. And right now, state and local governments are not spending; they're in danger of laying off hundreds of thousands of workers, which is the last thing you need during a pandemic. So aid to local governments, enhanced unemployment benefits to keep millions of American families afloat; the fact is, the market has been pricing in a stimulus bill of some kind and hopefully will deliver today before the election.</s>ANDERSON: Donald Trump, speaking to FOX News just in the last hour or so, had to this to say on stimulus. Have a listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You came into this interview saying, yes, you're prepared to go higher than $1.8 trillion.</s>TRUMP: Correct.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't expect a phone call from Speaker Pelosi but you would go higher.</s>TRUMP: Yes, I would.</s>TRUMP: The Republicans will, too. Because we like stimulus. We want stimulus. And we think we should have stimulus because it was China's fault.</s>ANDERSON: Your reaction, Andrew?</s>YANG: I'm thrilled that President Trump wants to see a deal done. And there's a feeling that Steve Mnuchin wants a deal, too. Nancy Pelosi right now is negotiating with Mnuchin as to what the particulars are. But the politics suggests that a deal will be done because many of the Republicans in the Senate are up for re-election. President Trump is obviously on the ballot in November. And the last thing everyone wants to do is turn to their people and say, we couldn't get you help during the darkest time in American memory.</s>ANDERSON: So CNN asked Nancy Pelosi about your tweet encouraging her to take a deal. Let's just listen to this.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yesterday, I spoke to Andrew Yang who says the same thing, it's not everything you want --</s>REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: Yes. But you know what --</s>BLITZER: -- but there's a lot there.</s>PELOSI: OK. Honest to God, you really -- I can't get over it. Because Andrew Yang, he's lovely. Ro Khanna, he's lovely. They are not negotiating this situation. They have no idea of the particulars. They have no idea of what the language is here. I didn't come over here to have -- so you're the apologist for the Obama, excuse me, God forbid.</s>BLITZER: Madam Speaker --</s>PELOSI: Thank God for Barack Obama.</s>BLITZER: -- I'm not an apologist, I'm asking you serious questions, because so many people are in desperate need right now.</s>PELOSI: I'm saying to you --</s>BLITZER: Let me ask you this.</s>PELOSI: OK.</s>BLITZER: When was the last time --</s>PELOSI: Let me respond to you --</s>BLITZER: Well, let me ask you --</s>PELOSI: If you're going to answer your own question --</s>BLITZER: -- when was the last time you spoke with the president about this?</s>PELOSI: I don't speak to the president. Speak to his representative.</s>BLITZER: Why not call him and say, Mr. President, let's work out a deal. It's not going to be everything you want. Not going to be everything I want. But there are so many Americans right now who are in desperate need. Let's make a deal.</s>PELOSI: What makes me amused if it weren't so sad, is how you all think that you know more about the suffering of the American people than those of us who are elected by them to represent them at that table.</s>ANDERSON: Andrew, you have no idea, according to Pelosi. And Wolf is an apologist for the Republican Party. I don't want to reply (ph) to this point but it's so important. Nancy Pelosi there and the Republicans with Mitch McConnell, are they playing politics with people's lives at this point? I mean that was a pretty defensive Nancy Pelosi.</s>YANG: I hear from American families who are struggling every single day, Becky. People are hurting, people can't pay their rent. People can't put gas in their car. People don't know if they're able to afford groceries for themselves and their kids. They deserve better. You know, America's the richest country in the world. And yet, we have done less for our people than many other countries for this pandemic, despite the fact it has devastated our country worse than almost any other. There's been a real sense of depression and failure among many of the Americans I hear about, that our government has not been able to step up to the plate in a way that we see as necessary; 82 percent of Americans are four casually (ph) during the pandemic. That's the kind of thing that would help millions of American families right now.</s>ANDERSON: I mean, you're out on the campaign trail. You're hearing this from people on the street, right?</s>YANG: A lot of it is online and digital because we are, you know, in a pandemic. I did campaign in Pennsylvania this weekend for Joe and Kamala. And things are depressed, frankly. You know, places where ordinarily there would be a bustling crowd and places are struggling to keep their doors open. And so that affects communities around the country because they're not sure what the future holds. The least we can do is actually stabilize a path for more American families so that you know you can hunker down and live out throughout the winter without fear of, frankly, not being able to put food on the table.</s>ANDERSON: Yes, doesn't matter which side delivers. It's about delivering to the American people at this point. Andrew, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir. We can ban the world trillion (sic) around a lot, pretty liberally, a trillion here, a trillion there. It may be as well be a buck or two. But how much is a trillion really? Let me give you some perspective by comparing it to time.</s>ANDERSON: A million seconds is about 12 days. A billion seconds, 32 years. Now a trillion seconds, more than 30,000 years. That's about three times how long it's been since the agricultural revolution, so we are talking big money, folks. So clearly, negotiations have to happen but it's got to work out for the American people, isn't it? We'll be right back after this.

U.K. Signs Contract For First Human Challenge Trials; "Human Challenge" Trials Pose Ethical Challenges; Argentina Has More Than One Million Cases Of COVID-19

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all know a vaccine is needed to help end the pandemic.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fighting city of EU has become one of the first of an experimental COVID-19 vaccine to public.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alistair Fraser-Urquhart desperately wants to be infected with the Coronavirus.</s>ALISTAIR FRASER-URQUHART, 1DAYSOONER VOLUNTEER & COORDINATOR: I wake about thinking about challenge trials and I go back to bed thinking about challenge trials.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard to be optimistic about people even taking a vaccine when they won't wear a mask.</s>ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.</s>BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The fate of the United States will be decided two weeks from today, the fate of a Coronavirus vaccine much further down the road. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to "Connect the World." We're connecting a world that can feel too divided too often, but right now on opposite ends of the scientists and health experts are working towards a common goal for everyone, a vaccine against COVID-19, the single greatest challenge that we have faced this year, so just how close are we? Well, this is a dashboard of where we are right now listing how far along the various vaccine phases are around the world, and while it looks like a lot of info, it actually belies a fair complex, more complex patchwork of trials and challenges going on globally. Well, these are the two important developments you need to know about this hour. In London the government has just signed a contract for the first human challenge studies into COVID-19, a major step in getting a vaccine out. While in China an experimental dose of vaccine is already on sale to some. We will get the picture from China in a moment. First, CNN's Phil Black met a volunteer in the UK who is keen to take part in the race for a vaccine and is willing to expose himself to potential risk if it helps the greater good.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: Yes!</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alastair Fraser-Urquhart desperately wants to be infected with the Coronavirus.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: I've just got the email.</s>BLACK: He's part of the campaign group "1DAYSOONER". It's been busy recruiting COVID willing volunteers, so far tens of thousands around the world, and lobbying the UK government to use them for potentially risky research.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: I wake up thinking about challenge trials. And I go back thinking about challenge trials.</s>BLACK: Challenge trials involve giving healthy people a potential vaccine, like this one developed by London's Imperial College and then later testing it by deliberately dosing them with the virus.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: By taking that small risk on myself I can, you know, potentially protect thousands of other people from having to be infected without consenting to it.</s>BLACK: Advocates say challenge trials are more efficient than the usual method of waiting for large numbers of test subjects to be exposed to a specific virus in the real world. With numerous COVID-19 vaccines being developed, some scientists think challenge trials could help identify the best of them sooner.</s>DR. MARTIN JOHNSON, SENIOR MEDICAL DIRECTOR, HVIVO: At the moment governments are just having to buy at risk and lots of different vaccines hoping that one of them is going to work.</s>BLACK: Dr. Martin Johnson works for "hVIVO" the testing company hired by the British government to set up challenge trials for three possible vaccines. Its London facility has years of experience running similar programs with influenza and other viruses, but working with this new Coronavirus is far riskier. The trials will be conducted at London's Royal Free Hospital which has the UK's only level Category III bio-containment ward and the first round of volunteers will be exposed to the virus without getting a vaccine.</s>DR. JOHNSON: We're basically watching the disease in motion right from the very start of inoculation right through to the disease going out of the body, so it gives us an absolute view of what is happening to the human body during an infectious process?</s>BLACK: The Company says challenge trials can be conducted safely because treatments are now available like the antiviral Remdesivir and the steroid Dexamethasone, but the World Health Organization recently found Remdesivir doesn't appear to save COVID-19 patient lives or help them recover sooner and the data on Dexamethasone is still early and limited.</s>BLACK: The ethics of the trials will be closely scrutinized. England's regulator will have to be convinced that the risk is worth the potential reward.</s>TERENCE STEPHENSON, CHAIR, ENGLAND'S HEALTH RESEARCH AUTHORITY: A challenge trial would have to make the coregent argument that the benefits to society greatly outweigh the risks and that that evidence or those data could not be achieved in a safer way.</s>BLACK: Volunteers will be strictly screened to exclude known risk factors so those selected must fit a limited profile. They will have to be young and very healthy. Alastair hopes he's in with a chance.</s>FRASER-URQUHART: If ever there it was a time to push the boundaries and discover how quickly we can do stuff and how well we can do stuff and to take on risks for other people it's now.</s>BLACK: Phil Black, CNN, London.</s>ANDERSON: Right. Joining me now is one of the world's leading experts in human challenge trials Andrew Catchpole is the Chief Scientific Officer for the "hVIVO" the company helping to lead the trials in London. It's a pleasure having you on, sir, and thank you. Let's start with some quick questions, a speed round, if you will, for those viewers who may be new to all of this. Firstly, what's the difference between a clinical Phase III trial and a human trial?</s>ANDREW CATCHPOLE, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC OFFICER, HVIVO: A human challenge study is where we directly inoculate the volunteers with the virus, so that differs to a normal Phase III trial where people in Phase III trials are given the vaccine and then asked to lead their normal life and therefore it's totally by random luck whether they become exposed to the virus or not.</s>ANDERSON: Right. We'll do more on that in a moment. How many people will be involved in this trial?</s>CATCHPOLE: So this first trial is all about determining the lowest amount of virus required to cause an infection, so we're starting extremely low levels. And then if nobody gets infected we'll start with the next level up and keep going until we get an established infection. So it's difficult to say exactly how many subjects will be required for this trial because it will depend on how many doses we test, so somewhere between--</s>ANDERSON: What about the demographics? Got it OK, 50 and 90 well, what about demographic, yes, go on?</s>CATCHPOLE: It's all about minimizing risks so therefore, the demographics are associated with making sure we're using the lowest risk possible volunteers for this study for this disease so we'll be working with 18 to 30-year-olds, for example.</s>ANDERSON: How long will the trial take?</s>CATCHPOLE: So the trial itself will take anywhere between two to four months depending on how many doses of virus we need to test before we're able to establish an infection.</s>ANDERSON: And what are the main risks?</s>CATCHPOLE: So the main risk for any clinical trial are that the disease progresses further than we anticipate which is why we're doing a number of factors to minimize those risks. Firstly, having an extremely low dose of virus, and then we're using only subjects which have minimal risk or no known risk factors to the disease as well as also using antiviral as a preemptive measure to further minimize the risk severe disease.</s>ANDERSON: Got it. OK. This hasn't yet got ethics approval from UK regulators. Why is that?</s>CATCHPOLE: It's just the stage of the process we're at. All clinical trials must be independently reviewed by an Ethical Committee and then in addition to that reviewed by the regulators. We're at the stage where we've now got this contract with the UK government. We've designed the study and we're just about to then submit our plans for the study to both the ethical review board and the regulator, the</s>NHRA. ANDERSON: OK, let's just interrogate some of those lines of inquiry that we've just been sort of laying out. Let's get back to the demographics, for example. You said your trial is 18 to 30s. These Phase III clinical trials, for example, for a Chinese vaccine that are happening here in the UK have about 125 nationalities taking part so far. That's a high level of demographic diversity. You're just talking about age here. Is your trial diverse enough?</s>CATCHPOLE: So because this is the first time it's been done we need to take a very safety first cautious approach so to start with we'll only be using ethnic groups with no known risk factors, but as the trial progresses, absolutely. Our plans are to widen the diversity as we get the data to be able to include more and more different ethnic groups.</s>ANDERSON: Right, got it. And apologies I talked about a UK trial. It's a trial that's going on here in the UAE for the Sinopharm Vaccine which is in Phase III clinical trials here. "hVIVO" says that a human trial is only possible now because of the promising performance of antiviral treatments.</s>ANDERSON: You just said that yourself, like Remdesivir and Dexamethasone, but the W.H.O. said that Remdesivir doesn't appear to save COVID-19 patient lives, and the data on Dexamethasone is still limited. Do questions about their efficacy worry you?</s>CATCHPOLE: We have to remember that the contexts of those studies that you've just quoted from the W.H.O. are completely different than the context of the antiviral that would be applied here. So the context of those two studies that you quoted are all about whether severely affected subjects who - patients who have got this disease in the community and are hospitalized and then you give them the antiviral and then it's looking at those clinical outcomes. That's a very different scenario to what we're working with here. What we're talking about in this clinical trial is healthy adults with minimal disease only just at the point where you can even detect virus and then administering it, so it's a very, very different paradigm that you're comparing.</s>ANDERSON: Oh, OK. Have a listen to what the W.H.O. Regional Director for Europe told me just earlier this week about vaccines.</s>HANS KLUGE, W.H.O. REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EUROPE: You have nine months in the pandemic, and now we see the results and good science needs this time. So in that sense that's where we are and we're moving forward. The same for vaccines is moving forward at its own precedented speed, but we cannot force the time. This is good science.</s>ANDERSON: By suggesting that they cannot force the time, what he's saying is these things are going at lightning speed. Are vaccine trials to your mind being rushed?</s>CATCHPOLE: So everyone is trying to expedite them, but I can't speak for all of the trials but we're certainly, the "hVIVO" is collaborative is not rushing. We're taken very careful here. So I think what is being rushed through is that the regulators are looking at things very much quicker and turning around expedited and there's no undue care and intention being applied here, no.</s>ANDERSON: So as the world waits for a vaccine, countries are grappling with the second waves, imposing new restrictions but resisting full nationwide lockdowns. The W.H.O. told me that the lockdowns are a last resort. I wonder, you know, given your resistance in all of this, just how bad do the numbers need to get before we get to these last-resort nationwide lockdowns once again?</s>CATCHPOLE: I think we only need to look at how all of the different governments around the world have responded so differently to realize that for every person you ask you're going to get a different opinion on that. So there's multiple ways of tackling this, and we just need multiple different arms which is why challenge studies themselves are yet again another way of tackling vaccine problem. So it's about having multiple tools in your toolbox to do what we can to help the pandemic.</s>ANDERSON: Back to the work that you're doing and certainly the experts are saying it's still if not when with regard to a vaccine in this race for a vaccine. Should we be looking at getting a vaccine in the coming months? I just wonder what the point of these human challenge trials are which are effectively speeding up the process but with respect and I heard what you said there are still risks to people's lives?</s>CACTHPOLE: So, while there are vaccines in late-stage clinical development right now, we all hope that they will be successful. I think it's extremely unlikely that any single one vaccine will be magic golden bullet here and protect people entirely from the disease. We just need to look back in history that vaccines tend to need to go through multiple iterations to get better and better improvements, and, therefore, protect people better and better as they get further developed. So even if there are vaccines which prove to be efficacious to start with, they are unlikely to be completely efficacious for all at-risk groups which is why we still need ways of testing new vaccines coming to market. And indeed comparing new vaccines to those that are licensed and ask the question is it as good as ones already out there and isn't it an improvement and therefore perhaps we should switch to this new vaccine being developed so you still need quick ways of identifying and testing the vaccines as we progress.</s>ANDERSON: This is fascinating. Your insight is enormously valuable, and we wish you the best, of course, because the best for you means the best for humanity at this point.</s>ANDERSON: Thank you very much indeed for joining us. China announcing some progress in its vaccine trials, Chinese vaccine officials say around 60,000 people have taken part in Phase III trials, and so far no serious adverse reactions have been reported. At the same time, one city is already offering a vaccine to some members of the general public. David Culver has more from China for you.</s>DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They arrived early from all over China, folks lured to the International Manufacturing Hub of Yiwu City, specifically to this small community hospital. This is one of the first public locations where China's rolled out an experimental COVID-19 vaccine. They began injecting people over the weekend, the cost, about $60 U.S. for two doses. Word spread quickly. Some showed up Monday thinking they would get a shot Andy Ku among them. This is something really important to you, I asked her, yes she replied adding because well if you have the vaccine it is much safer to leave the country. For more than 20 years she's worked in import and export in Chile and returned home to China amidst the outbreak and she flew to Yiwu the night before we met her, it is a two-hour flight from her home in Southern China, eager and admittedly a bit desperate for immunity. And so they told us they don't it and you have to go find place. Hospital staff confirmed to CNN that they had ran out, local officials later announced this distribution was only for those with specific foreign travel needs and pre-approval who was not the only one disappointed. Notice the groups of people waiting around the hospital parking lot. Some of them traveled in from neighboring provinces wanting the vaccine. Originally from Syria we met - as he pulled up with his young daughter and wife in the back seat of their car. He was curious if not also a bit hesitant.</s>CULVER: If you were to walk in there and they had it, would you take it today?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, I don't know. I don't have answer.</s>CULVER: As you can go through this main entrance here we do know folks are going in to inquire about how they might be part of this trial essentially, because you've got to remember this is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government. This is not an actual release of an approved drug as of yet. The vaccine distributed at this the Yiwu hospital is made by Sinovac Biotech CNN took you through the Beijing based Biotech company in August. It is one of more than a dozen Chinese companies working on a Coronavirus vaccine. At the time of our visit in the late summer they were constructing a new facility to meet the production demands while still going through Phase III clinical trials which have not yet concluded. It all seemed to be happening at rapid speeds.</s>HELEN YANG, SINOVAC BIOTECH: None of the staff is sacrificing any quality of our vaccine, so because Sinovac's goal is to provide a vaccine with good quality, good safety and good immunogenicity to the people in the world.</s>CULVER: China has been trying to push past the early allegations of mishandling cover-ups and silencing of whistle-blowers surrounded the initial outbreak in Wuhan and instead officials here have highlighted their swift and seemingly successful responses to many cluster outbreaks the most recent in Chengdu last week following a major travel holiday. After only a handful of confirmed cases surfaced health officials began strict contact tracing and tested more than 10 million people in less than a week and life, it seems, quickly returned to near normal again. But that's mostly within China, a bubble of sorts. For some whose livelihood is rooted in other parts of the world where cases are surging once again, their only hope may be a vaccine Annie Ku (ph) and the others now on to the next location to track one down. David Culver CNN, Yiwu, China.</s>ANDERSON: Just ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD who is Donald Trump targeting now?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people.</s>ANDERSON: Well, Anthony Fauci responds to the sticks and stones from the U.S. President. First up though, Bolivia seems to have COVID on the run while Argentina grapples with a grim new milestone. How the pandemic drama is playing out in Latin America is up next.

Italy Gives Mayors Power To Lock Down Public Squares

ANDERSON: Well, the entire world is waiting for an end to this Coronavirus pandemic with a vaccine being dubbed our best escape route. Until we have a viable and safe vaccine let alone distribute one, how do we stay safe? Well, in Europe more restrictions are coming to play as the continent battles resurgence in cases. Ireland preparing for some of the most stringent measures restricting residents to five-kilometer radius for the next six weeks, meanwhile the Czech Republic making face masks mandatory once again.</s>ANDERSON: Cases there like much of the region heading into the wrong direction. Italy ramping up its capabilities as cases have steadily climbed since the beginning of the month. Nearly 50,000 COVID tests have been conducted there in the last 24 hours with just under 10,000 of those being positive. Well, on top of testing, new restrictions, several regions in Italy from Campania to Lombardi will soon be under curfew to help slow the spread of the virus. Bed Wedeman has more for you from Naples.</s>BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Northern Italian region of Lombardi is about to introduce a overnight curfew beginning Thursday evening 11:00 pm to 5:00 am curfew will be in effect in a region with 10 million people. Only those who have to go out for reasons of work and health will be allowed to go out of their homes. It's not clear how long this curfew will be in place. Also, another proposal on the table but not yet approved is closing shopping malls over the weekend, and, of course, it was Lombardi that was the worst hit region of Italy in the first wave of this pandemic. Now Sunday evening the Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte made it clear in a press conference that he was going to leave it up to local officials now to decide specific measures to try to stop this latest surge in cases. It is clear that the Italian government wants to avoid a repeat of the more than two-month lockdown that this country went through earlier this year. I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN reporting from Naples.</s>ANDERSON: Well, my next guest is the Italian Deputy Minister of Health. Pierpaolo Sileri he joins me live from Rome to talk more about Italy's approach to the virus and thank you for joining us. Europe facing a real dilemma it's tough for governments around the region. Restrictions like many other countries right now in Italy differ by region with Mayors in charge of what's going on. How effective are the local lockdowns?</s>PIERPAOLO SILERI, ITALIAN DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Right now I think the numbers are increasing but are still under control. Obviously there's a difference between regions and that's why we're trying to organize things according to the local situation. For other situations I do intend for a simple number of cases but also the response of the system in terms of testing, swabs, beds, et cetera, et cetera. Obviously right now differently from February and March diffusion of the virus is all over in the Italian territory. In February was in the north and the massive lockdowns did stop the virus across Italy. Right now do we have several outbreaks all over Italy? Several areas are very well controlled, and in this area it's not - it's not completely true there.</s>ANDERSON: So what's the baseline here? Should things not improve with these much milder restrictions on a local basis, what happens next?</s>SILERI: I think the cutoff is not the number of increase, but how fast this increase and how the symptoms respond for a sample. I think that if you have an increase in numbers of ICUs beds that are occupied, there you need to do something. Right now ICU beds that are occupied are close to 800. It's a very low number compared to what we served in March when we had more than 4,000 beds that were occupied simultaneously for Coronavirus, but this is not true - coronavirus, there is an increasing number of cases and an increased number of admissions in the hospital and I believe there a lot of lockdown may be helpful to decrease the infection of the virus. So we will - for the next few weeks.</s>ANDERSON: What sort of support is the central government providing on a fiscal basis? I mean, we've seen regions in France grappling with central government to get more support for businesses that are effectively being told to close again. We're seeing a similar story in the UK.</s>ANDERSON: What's the story in Italy and how concerned are you that by the end of this year as the support for businesses stops what happens then? Do hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs?</s>SILERI: Obviously we need to try to help obituaries and we did this over the last seven months and we may face to necessary unrest over the next few month. It's a very difficult question to answer because it depend for how long we need to fight against this Coronavirus. So I believe that what we are observing now is very different from February and March, and I don't think we will encounter a - an entire nation lockdown. So I think probably we will face temporary lockdowns for maybe a couple of weeks in some regions and some areas and this will be less compared to what happened from February to May when we did close almost everything. But to answer your question I think it would be very difficult even because, you know it's in the economic system that's not just Italy and this pandemic is offending the entire world. So I think the result of this will be more clear a few months from now, even in one year or two years from now.</s>ANDERSON: Sure. Listen, keeping schools open. One of the main reasons many countries are resisting full nationwide lockdowns, are you seeing COVID cases coming from schools, and if cases stay on this current trajectory in Italy is there a case to say that you must close schools and universities?</s>SILERI: I don't think - I don't think the schools are a problem right now, and we're not observing a lot of cases in the school. Actually the majority of the cases - occur in families so, you know, when - when you're outside your job or, you know, wherever there are no protocols. So usually in the domestic area so right now I think school is very, very - we observe problems where probable are not respected and usually when you see a - on Sunday with your family there are no protocols. There is only you and you need to keep the distance and keep the mask. But, you know, in the school or - TVs where they have protocols or jobs there we are not observing increases or diffusion of the virus. Mainly it is outside and the reason while we are stopping some recreational activities. In the North of Italy they are closing - before midnight and keep everything closed until 5:00 in the morning. I think there isn't a problem the main problem for the spread of the virus but not the school, not the school.</s>ANDERSON: And thank you for explaining because this is literally one of the most pressing concerns for so many governments around Europe as is the idea of Europe sticking together on this. Margaritis Schinas, who is the Vice President of the European Union's Commission for Promoting "Our European Way of Life" which is an odd title in and of itself, spoke to me about how the EU is coping during this pandemic. I just want you to have a listen, sir.</s>MARGARITIS SCHINAS, VICE PRESIDENT, EU COMMISSION FOR "PROMOTING EUROPEAN WAY OF LIFE": Health is not such a competence of the European Union and this is a problem because people have expectations from the European Union in an area where the European Union has not much legal competence.</s>ANDERSON: By which he means that health isn't sort of a coordinated file, as it were, across Europe which may change, I guess, going forward. Are you receiving any or enough support from the EU?</s>SILERI: We are - we are discussing a lot with Europe, and our main stories obviously in contact with the other entire health minister in Europe. But obviously a strategy should be done all together, for example, for travel for example for lockdowns or even for diagnostic tests.</s>SILERI: We are facing something very hard for the next six, seven months, so I think that right now we need a strategy that this - I think the way to fight against the virus. I mean, what's happening in the North of Europe, for example, in France and in the UK, something that will happen there also. They reached almost 20,000 cases, 15,000, 20,000 cases and this would happen in either and since we need to survive with this virus and go ahead for the next few months, obviously we need something for Europe basically. I think--</s>ANDERSON: Sir, thank you for your time, and it's been a pleasure. I'm going to have to stop - close this interview out here because we've got to just get on with a couple of other things, but thank you. Very valuable to hear your perspective the Deputy Health Minister in Italy. Well, as we mentioned, thank you, Ireland ready to move into what they call a level five alert, the country's highest level of COVID-19 restrictions. In just minutes we'll speak to a family about what this will mean for them. And ahead on "Connect the World" that the next U.S. Presidential Debate, Republicans demanding a focus on foreign policy but the Biden camp says that's just a way for Donald Trump to avoid questions on the pandemic.

President Trump Repeatedly Attacks Dr. Fauci For Telling The Truth

ANDERSON: Well, folks, we're now just two weeks out from that election, yes, two weeks until Americans elect leader of the free world, a decision that will be felt right across the globe wherever you are watching the show. In this final sprint to the ballot box, you'll be forgiven for feeling some political fatigue and that's for those of us watching from afar. Imagine what it feels like being an American voter is. Well, after all the battle lines were drawn long ago Donald Trump downplaying the Coronavirus and boasting about the economy Joe Biden slamming the administration's mishandling of the pandemic while pleading for national unity. Well, in this last leg every day counts, and don't the candidates know it. Mr. Trump last night admitting it's been a rocky few weeks for his campaign.</s>TRUMP: We're going to win. I wouldn't have said those three weeks ago. Three weeks ago, two weeks ago, I don't know. I wouldn't have said it. It was tougher for me.</s>ANDERSON: Well, part of that turmoil, of course, was President Trump's recent bout with COVID-19, an issue he continues to downplay.</s>TRUMP: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had it we've COVID. People are saying whatever just leave us alone. They are tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people, these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci is a nice guy. He's been here for 500 years.</s>TRUMP: He called every one of them wrong.</s>ANDERSON: Well, keep in mind 31 states currently reporting an uptick in cases in the U.S, the national average just under 60,000 COVID cases a day. To most, well, these are pretty dire numbers to. Mr. Trump it is not the main headline.</s>TRUMP: They are getting tired of the pandemic, aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN, that's all they cover. COVID, COVID, pandemic, pandemic, COVID, COVID, COVID you know why, they are trying to talk everybody out of voting. People aren't buying it, CNN, you dumb bastards.</s>ANDERSON: Well, Attorney and Former South Carolina State Representative Bakari Sellers joins us to look into all of this. On CNN and on CNN International we tell this story because it is such an important story to everywhere, everybody wherever they are watching in the world, and that's the response of the U.S. President. How crucial are these final two weeks, sir?</s>BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, here speaking as a dumb bastard I guess per the President of the United States I will tell you that you echoed those sentiments correctly, that people are dying at extremely high rates for a virus that did not have to be this bad if we would have had leadership that takes it seriously. It's not only a public health issue but also an issue of our economy which had to slow and shut down in many areas and a lot of places are going back into shutdown mode. These last two weeks are critical for one phase and one phase of the election only. That's the GOTV phase that's get out to vote. I don't believe there are any undecided voters in this country right now. If you're still struggling with whether or not you're going to vote for Joe Biden or Donald Trump you really just haven't been paying attention. And what we're seeing is the highest turnout in many states in the history of elections, and so I do believe that the energy is there. You just have to spend the next two weeks getting your voters to the polls.</s>ANDERSON: So let's have a look at the CNN Poll of Polls which averages across ten key battleground states showing a tight race in seven states heading into this final fall out. Biden is however holding sizable advantages in Pennsylvania, Michigan and in Wisconsin, three states, of course that Trump won in 2016. You say that you're pretty convinced that there are no undecided voters at this point. So if these polls were correct, that would mean that Biden would win this thing by some distance, but the Biden Campaign is absolutely out there saying don't get complacent? They are worried at this point that this isn't going to be an out and out victory. Why is that?</s>SELLERS: Well, I mean, you have to be worried. Any campaign worth its salt would be telling you to don't count the polls. Polls don't vote. People do, and so while the polls show that he's ahead in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, three states, the proverbial blue wall that he needs to maintain. If he wins those three states he's the President of the United States. You know, we still have to make sure that we're doing the ground, the blocking and tackling as we say, doing the groundwork and laying the foundation in states like North Carolina, in Florida, in Ohio, in Iowa. I believe that Vice President Biden is going to have a very strong night in the blue wall, but I also think he's going to carry Arizona. I think he's going to do extremely well in North Carolina and he is probably going to win Florida, but it's going to take the work and that means people have to show up and vote.</s>ANDERSON: You said there are no undecided voters which suggest that there's no point of having a last debate but there will be one. At least we think there will be one until one of the candidates tells us that they are not going to turn up. We heard Donald Trump reflecting on a few rough weeks for his campaign, but he says he's on the road back to victory. Biden's Campaign has urged against complacency, of course. As we look towards this debate, this final debate, what do you think we should expect, sir?</s>SELLERS: I don't know. I don't think anybody knows with these two. I mean, will they show up? I don't know the answer to that. In politics, this 2020, the writers have been completely out of control if this was a Sitcom or your favorite show on Netflix so I have no idea. I know that Donald Trump needs this debate more than Joe Biden. I don't think this debate will change any minds. Donald Trump is goes to rant and rave over the moderator. They actually have a mute button now which probably is a bad idea.</s>ANDERSON: Yes.</s>SELLERS: But we'll see how it plays out. It's going to be 90 minutes of a car crash, and, you know, people like to watch car crashes. So we'll see what happens?</s>ANDERSON: Bakari, it's a pleasure having you on. I mean, you made me laugh out loud. When you laugh to this stage you really don't know the answer to that question. If it was about anything else I'd be disappointed though I'd had you on to commentate. I totally get it and I sympathize. But thank you for doing your best.</s>SELLERS: That's all I can do. Thanks for having me.</s>ANDERSON: I really appreciate honestly at this point.</s>SELLERS: Have a good day.</s>ANDERSON: Bakari Sellers, I mean, it's almost getting ridiculous, isn't. Anyway you got still two weeks to go and we have to take this very seriously and we'll do our best to try to get you some answers of what's going on in the U.S. Meantime, still ahead Ireland is going on its highest alert to tackle a surge in Coronavirus case. Yes, this story is an important one. We'll talk to a family in Dublin about life under some of what have are some of the strictest restrictions going into place in Europe.

Ireland To Reimpose Nationwide Lockdown For Six Weeks.

ANDERSON: Some really stark numbers just coming into CNN showing the scope of the new peak in Coronavirus in the UK. The government there, reporting 241 new COVID-19 deaths today that's more than three times the number of deaths reported on Monday. The update goes on to say that each of those people died within just four weeks of their positive test. Well, from Italy to Switzerland to Slovenia, we are seeing country after country in Continental Europe taking urgent steps to try to slow a devastating new wave of the virus. Now Ireland is just hours away from becoming the first EU country to return to a full nationwide lockdown. Stay-at-home orders will take effect on Wednesday and will last six weeks. All non-essential businesses will close, although schools will remain open. Even getting fresh air and exercise is going to have its limits. People will have to stay within five kilometers of their home. We've been to Liverpool this week, and we've been to Austria to talk about the human toll of this lockdown and the pandemic in general, and we've talked to real families who are living through, just been reporting on it. We just wanted to quite frankly speak to people who are living this, and now we want to go to Dublin for you. Meet the Martins. Dad John, mom Caroline and sons James, Ben and Tom. What's up, guys? Welcome to the show.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.</s>ANDERSON: Hello! John.</s>JOHN MARTIN, FAMILY FACING NEW COVID RESTRICTIONS: Yes.</s>ANDERSON: What are the restrictions, and how do they impact your daily life, my love?</s>MARTIN: I'll tell you. Come tomorrow night at 12:00 we're going to be hit again with a level five. So it's our second time being around this corner. We're going to find it restricting but fortunately this time they are keeping the schools open so that is really going to help us obviously. So once we have that, we - Carol and I can focus on our work which will really going to help us but this five-kilometer restriction now, it's only for exercising and for basic shopping that we're allowed to leave our homes. I have my folks close enough so I can get down to them to help them with the shopping if need be, but, unfortunately, Caroline's folks are all the way down in Cork so she hasn't seem them in person in quite a while.</s>MARTIN: So it's - I suppose the difference this time, but the lockdown, last time we didn't know what was coming. This time we know what's going to happen. We know, you know how difficult it's going to be for all of us, you know, and so we are just hoping.</s>ANDERSON: Yes.</s>MARTIN: We're going to come up with a vaccination.</s>ANDERSON: You make a good point. At least you sort of know what's coming. Caroline, how do you feel about these new restrictions? They are pretty stringent, aren't they?</s>CAROLINE MARTIN, FAMILY FACING COVID RESTRICTIONS: They are, yes. It's going to be very strange with all the shops closed and I feel it's really hard on the shop owners and the retailers and the hairdressers and the pubs and everything closed but you know I think it's a momentous need must, we really need to try to flatten the curve again. We did a really good job at the start back in March so it's just to get it back down again, you know, from a business point of view. It's been full on for John and myself and an awful lot of people and I think these six weeks, especially with retail, there will be a lot of shops that won't reopen which is going to be really hard on the economy.</s>ANDERSON: Yes, sure. Listen, I mean, I'm hoping - I see the lads have got there - is that their Irish - Irish Rugby top on there or those football tops?</s>J. MARTIN: Flying the flag for you.</s>ANDERSON: Well, I hope you can still throw a ball around whichever shape it is. James, I understand it's your ninth birthday in a few weeks, and I know that you won't be able to celebrate with your friends. How does that make you feel?</s>JAMES MARTIN, FAMILY FACING COVID RESTRICTIONS: Well, it makes me feel sad, but I hope I'll do something nice for birthday anyway.</s>C. MARTIN: There will be cake.</s>J. MARTIN: Yes, there will. I hope there will.</s>ANDERSON: Bless. Well, I'll tell you what, from all your friends at CNN and around the world, we wish you a happy birthday ahead of time.</s>J. MARTIN: Thank you.</s>ANDERSON: You'll have a much better one next year, I'm sure. Happy birthday ahead from all of us here thank you, family Martins. Thank you for watching everybody around the world. Stay safe. Good night.

Trump Slams Debate Moderator Kristen Welker As "Terrible" & "Totally Partisan"

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And that's it for us. The news continues. I want to hand things over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME". Chris?</s>CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Thank you, Coop. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME. Fourteen days until Election Day, and divided we stand. The two presidential campaigns are complete opposite realities. Trump has us wondering if he's OK. And wondering where Biden is? Now is the last chance for these guys. Many of you actually solidify your feelings about whom to vote for in the two weeks before an election. Here we are. Trump is likely going to win or lose based on what you think of the pandemic and the response. He knows that. So the question is why does he think he can hide from COVID? He says "We're rounding the corner." For that to be true, it is only true, if we're rounding a corner, and right after it is a huge cliff, and all the time that he had to build a bridge, the bricks of which would be testing, and helping states with tracing, the mortar of it would have been the economic pain that he can't get a deal on. Where is the money? Where is the relief? Why won't he send more to people, on his own, like he did before? Instead of addressing those, at least letting you know that he's aware, he wants you to be aware of the real danger, Tony Fauci.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing I say is he's a little bit sometimes not a team player.</s>CUOMO: Are you talking about Fauci or you? Forget that many of you trust Fauci about COVID way more than Trump. Who cares about Tony Fauci? All due respect! We seem to be collectively standing by as a pandemic is having its way with us. People are in food lines, all over this country, Red and Blue. The virus is the truth. It doesn't play BS games. It does what it does. Too many of us can't get back to normal. Too many of our kids are in bad school situations, stressing the kids, stressing our families. Does Trump speak to that, a single idea to get things more open? No. He just says "We need to get back to normal." Captain Obvious could not have said it better. The question for him is, how? What has he got on that? His refusing to deal with the pandemic doesn't make it go away. His desire to make this election about something other than what we're all being suffocated by is not impressive and not normal. It's abnormal. This is only normal for him. In his mind, pandemic's not the problem, media is.</s>TRUMP: Kristen Welker is terrible. I mean, she is totally partisan. There are people out there that could be neutral.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.</s>TRUMP: Kristen Welker cannot be neutral at all.</s>CUOMO: He doesn't want neutral. Why do you think he's always on State TV? He wants this. "Mm hmm Mm hmm" You're not going to get that from Kristen Welker or from any of us. She's the Debate Moderator, by the way, for the second debate. She's also NBC's White House Correspondent, the real deal, OK? Now, why is he doing this? Is this the COVID talking? Maybe the first lady isn't the only one who hasn't recovered. I was having hallucinations at night from fever, from where the President's point is now. And they made a lot more sense than his approach to this pandemic. Now, this seems like a perfect moment for Biden to be on TV as much as he can. Should be here tonight, talk about the pain of the pandemic, talk about what he would do, say what's not being done, say what the fix is, how does that happen. His people say he's hunkered down, doing debate prep. OK. But listen let's be honest about the debate, them putting in the mic-muting rule for two minutes for each guy, that's going to do most of the work for him. At least he's going to be able to make a case. For a campaign that's trying not to repeat the mistakes of Clinton 2016, is sure quiet right now, maybe to a fall. And look, I get it. Trump is doing the work for him. How many of you decided to vote for Biden today, when you heard the President of the greatest democracy ever take to TV to insist that the Attorney General should prosecute his campaign opponent over baseless claims that the Attorney General himself has decided are baseless.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you be appointing a special prosecutor?</s>TRUMP: We've got to get the Attorney General to act. He's got to act. And he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. This is major corruption and this has to be known about before the election.</s>CUOMO: You remember all the heat that came down when Bill Clinton met privately with Obama's A.G., Loretta Lynch, on that tarmac in Phoenix, in 2016, and rightly so? Looked terrible! Biden should be all over what this President is trying to do with the A.G., make the case about what it means for where we are headed, if he's in leadership. But I have no sound of that for you. But I do have sound of Trump, from four years ago, when that Clinton meeting happened. And boy, did he see what it was then, even though it's just as damning as what he's doing now.</s>TRUMP: I think it's so terrible. I think it's so horrible. You know I've been talking about the rigged system, how it's rigged. Even in terms of judgment, how bad a judgment is it for him, or for her, to do this? I mean who would, who would do this?</s>CUOMO: You would! Now, draining the swamp seems to mean yelling at the biggest alligator to go after his opponent. And, by the way, he's picking the right gator, because remember, A.G. Bill Barr knows how to play the part. You remember this jewel of an exchange with Senator Harris?</s>SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Attorney General Barr, has the President, or anyone at the White House, ever asked or suggested, that you open an investigation of anyone?</s>BILL BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I wouldn't - I wouldn't--</s>HARRIS: Yes, or no?</s>BARR: Could you - could you repeat that question?</s>HARRIS: I will repeat it.</s>BARR: Yes.</s>HARRIS: Has the President or anyone at the White House ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone? Yes or no please, Sir.</s>BARR: The President or anybody else--</s>HARRIS: Seems you would remember something like that and be able to tell us.</s>BARR: Yes, but I'm - I'm trying to grapple with the word "Suggest." I mean, there have been discussions of - of matters out there that they have not asked me to open investigation but--</s>HARRIS: Perhaps they've suggested?</s>BARR: I don't know, I wouldn't say suggest--</s>HARRIS: Hinted?</s>BARR: I don't know.</s>HARRIS: Inferred? You don't know?</s>BARR: No.</s>HARRIS: OK</s>CUOMO: Listen. I'm a lawyer too. When you play with words, it's because you need to. And it's usually a defensive strategy. Wonder if Barr would say that now. "Suggest? Hmm?" Come on, man! Trump should be banging on McConnell and Pelosi's doors, not on Barr's. Get something done for the people who are desperate. And that goes for Biden too, to be honest. Why isn't he speaking out about Speaker Pelosi's role in this, pushing to get something done? Look, if the Democrats are right and the GOP are playing games, in the committee process, and stifling this, from getting any deal, call it out. Show it to us. Show us you know how to push the players and the process. Instead, two weeks out, we are in crisis, but Congress is playing quid pro quo, and those who want to lead us seem to be more of the status quo. So, our question, as we begin tonight is who is making the better play for your vote, two weeks out? Van Jones, Rick Santorum join me now, thank you both. First, Rick, I don't - we've discussed this several times. I don't get the President's play, man. I still think throwing money, at people in need, and putting his arms around the pandemic, and say, "I am going to get us through this, here's what I'm going to do," seems like the smarter play than attacking me and Tony Fauci.</s>RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR - PENNSYLVANIA, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well he's certainly throwing money at this. I mean the President has upped the ante, I think now, for the third time. I think he's even at the number that Nancy Pelosi has suggested which, by the way, isn't where the Republicans in the United States Senate are. But he's throwing money at this. He wants to make a deal. And Nancy Pelosi is pretty clear. She wants her deal, and not anybody else's. Even at that, even if the President were to strike a deal with Nancy Pelosi, in the House, which it seems like he's doing everything he can, to get that deal, I seriously doubt that it passes the United States Senate. I just don't think the votes are there, on the Republican side, to do another $2.5 trillion deal right now.</s>CUOMO: Well, Van, look, here's what my reporting says. That's not true. He's not trying to kill himself to get it done. He's not doing the dealing himself. He's having other people do it. And, if he doesn't have the votes in the Senate that confirms that he's not doing everything he can, because if he can't control McConnell and his boys, over this, then he can't control them over anything. The question is, are the Democrats misplaying this as well? Because they do get some of the stink of "Well get something done," Van.</s>VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well I think that's true. But I mean the - it's not just that the numbers are getting closer together. The substance of what Pelosi is trying to do versus what Mnuchin is talking about is just night and day, in terms of the amount of relief, those dollars would translate to for ordinary people. Pelosi is really trying to drive a lot more relief to ordinary people. The reality that you have is, I mean just in case people have forgotten, here is what it looks like when a President is doing all he can. He calls the leaders into the White House. He basically locks the door, and says, "We're not leaving until we get a deal, period." And it's not, "I've got Mnuchin over there," literally overseas, talking to her, at 4 o'clock, in the morning, while I'm doing 17 rallies, and sometimes talking about this issue on Fox. This is not a president, who is focused on the main pain of the American people. People have two sources of pain, the virus and the economy. Trump is dealing with neither. Instead, he's trying to sic the Attorney General on his opponent. That is insane. It's terrible. It's wrong. And there's no way to polish that turd, and make it into something more than it is.</s>CUOMO: Well, Rick, look, I see the long blink, when he was talking about the A.G. It does look terrible, especially after the A.G. came out - well he didn't really come out, but word got out that "Yes, we looked at that. We're not going to do anything with it right now." But just as a tactic, you're two weeks out, Rick. This is the time, we know, a lot of voters actually solidify preference right now. And we know they can vote every day, if they want, in a lot of the states. Do you think he's saying the right things to the American people right now?</s>SANTORUM: Well, first off, Nancy Pelosi is not trying to get more aid to the American people. She's trying to get more aid to Democratic governors. That's where the sticking point is, is money to the states that--</s>CUOMO: It is one country, Rick. It's one country.</s>SANTORUM: --that that - but - well yes, but it's going to big state governors. That's where that--</s>CUOMO: Well that's where a lot of the pain is--</s>SANTORUM: --that's where Nancy Pelosi's throwing a lot.</s>CUOMO: --Rick, a lot of the pain--</s>SANTORUM: Well yes.</s>CUOMO: --is in those same places.</s>SANTORUM: And some would say self-imposed pain. But to answer your question more directly--</s>CUOMO: You mean they got COVID on their own? They brought it upon themselves?</s>SANTORUM: I didn't say that. I said that--</s>CUOMO: Well you just said "Some would say self-imposed."</s>SANTORUM: --the self-imposed economic--</s>CUOMO: What do you mean?</s>SANTORUM: --the self-imposed economic pain of keeping this - keeping their states shut down--</s>CUOMO: What choice did they have?</s>SANTORUM: --unnecessary.</s>CUOMO: What was the better option offered by the federal government, Rick?</s>SANTORUM: Well if you look at - look at states like Florida, and Texas, and Arizona, and others, who went through this, are now in numbers lower than Illinois, lower than Wisconsin, lower than other states that are seeing another rise, who have been shut down this entire time. So look, I don't think there's a clear path--</s>CUOMO: That's not an accurate assessment, what you just said, by the way, Rick.</s>SANTORUM: It is. It is. I mean the highest numbers in the state--</s>CUOMO: Texas had big trouble. They had to force a shutdown because they waited--</s>CUOMO: --hold on a second. They had to force a shutdown because they waited too long. They had a lot more pain in waves that they didn't see coming that they didn't prepare for, because that Governor was playing with Trump. And in Florida, come on Rick! Florida has been a national embarrassment. And you know it.</s>SANTORUM: The national embarrassment were New York and New Jersey, not Florida and Texas. I mean look at the death rates in those states.</s>CUOMO: New York and New Jersey are travel hubs.</s>SANTORUM: That's just the reality.</s>CUOMO: They're at the top of the list of international travel hubs, Rick. You know why they got sick. Why would you play this kind of politics with people's pain?</s>SANTORUM: I'm not playing politics. I'm just sticking with the numbers.</s>CUOMO: You know the reality, Rick.</s>SANTORUM: You want to have a factual discussion? Let's have a factual discussion.</s>CUOMO: Yes, let's.</s>SANTORUM: And look at the numbers.</s>CUOMO: Let's. The Governor of Florida said, "Hey, you said it was going to be bad down here, where is it?" moving his neck like that, like a bad caricature of Italian people. And then what does he do? He says spring break. He exports the virus all over the place. He plays with the numbers. They keep playing with the numbers. He doesn't want people to report them. Now he's got cases spiking all over the place.</s>SANTORUM: That's just - well first off--</s>CUOMO: Look at - look at the rate down in Florida.</s>SANTORUM: Florida's cases are not spiking all over the place and they're in--</s>CUOMO: The last two weeks in Florida, look at the rate of cases. Why would you defend bad leadership?</s>SANTORUM: They're not - they're not - they're not anywhere near what they are in Wisconsin, which is a much - or half this - half this - less than half the size of the State of Florida. They're worse in Illinois, which is smaller than the State of Florida--</s>CUOMO: But why would you cherry--pick it when they're up between 10 percent and 50 percent? We just showed it on the map.</s>SANTORUM: Again, from where?</s>CUOMO: Why would you call that success?</s>SANTORUM: They went way down, now they're going back up a lot and just every other--</s>CUOMO: Yes, of course they are, because he doesn't do anything--</s>SANTORUM: --state it's because--</s>CUOMO: --consistent with leadership, Rick.</s>SANTORUM: They are--</s>CUOMO: And if you don't do that in a pandemic, the virus will spread. But hold on a second.</s>SANTORUM: They are primarily, as you know, they are primarily younger people, going back to school, and that's why these numbers are spiking.</s>CUOMO: They are not primarily. Not down there.</s>SANTORUM: Yes, they are.</s>CUOMO: They've got all the snowbirds. And that was another thing. The Governor didn't want to count people who were snowbirds as Florida residents because that's really genuine, that's an authentic thing to do. It's not like that State has an entirely big population that comes in and out but they don't count all the sudden. But wait, I have something for Van as well. Biden. Biden is hidin'. I know he says he's getting ready for the debate. But Van, this is the time to speak, brother. He should be everywhere, making the - having the conversation I'm having with Rick, with the American people. And it probably wouldn't go as well, depending on where he is, but we're professionals. It's fine. But he's not. And I get that he's getting ready for the debate. But it's more than that, Van.</s>JONES: Look, I would love to see him more. I'd love to see Kamala more. I'd love to see, you know - but the reality is Trump is doing 27 rallies an hour. He's all over the place. He's saying so much crazy stuff. It's almost impossible to participate in a news cycle with the guy. I think what you're seeing with Biden and Kamala in that campaign is a disciplined strategy to get to 270. They're trying to win this thing. And they want to be able to win this thing and be able to govern. I agree with you, I would love to. Listen, but the thing is, Trump is doing so much dumb stuff, you could spend your whole day just whack-a- moling on all the dumb stuff he's doing as the candidate. And I think it's better and smarter for him. He's on Zoom calls all day. He's talking in these, shoring up his support in places. It is a big, fractious coalition. He's got to hold this thing together. And he's - instead of broadcasting and fighting with Trump, he's narrowcasting to his campaign and--</s>CUOMO: I'm not saying he should fight with Trump. I'm saying he should be here right now until you - instead of you two handsome mugs, and he should be talking to me about this stuff. Kamala Harris should be doing it.</s>JONES: Look--</s>CUOMO: They should be taking every opportunity. It's just my take.</s>JONES: I'd love to--</s>CUOMO: Van, I appreciate yours. And Rick, I always appreciate yours. I do.</s>SANTORUM: Thank you. Me too.</s>CUOMO: We don't have to disagree. I love you, brother, and I want you to be heard.</s>SANTORUM: Me too.</s>CUOMO: And I'm happy for you to be heard here. People got to disagree with decency, my brothers and sisters.</s>SANTORUM: Thank you.</s>CUOMO: This other way is getting us nowhere. Gentlemen, have good night.</s>SANTORUM: Good night.</s>CUOMO: I mean it. I say it to you all the time. Look, we can get after it on this show. I don't agree with a lot of his analysis. Doesn't mean I think he's my enemy. I know he's not my enemy. We got to get back to that. This "Divided we stand thing," man, it's not who we are. We're not going to make it this way. I'm telling you, this country has to come together. Our strength has to be a function of our sweetness. We don't do well with harshness. We're not bullies here. This doesn't work. We've got to get to a better place. How? Great question! Now, here's what I know. Not much, but I know what doesn't work, a threatening message landing in the inbox of voters in at least two states. "Vote for Trump or else!" I don't like the way it smells. It can't be as obvious as it looks. I'll take you through what it looked like to people. But now we've been working it. We have Donie O'Sullivan digging into what's happening. It's real. It's widespread. It's having an impact. But we have to get to the bottom of it, and we're going to take a step in that direction, next.</s>TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

Voter Intimidation In Florida & Alaska As E-mails Threaten Voters

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.</s>CUOMO: Voter intimidation, I told you we've been watching the polls, we're going to watch the process, and this is something you need to know, OK? This is happening as we speak. We've seen it in Alaska. Now, we're seeing it in different parts of Florida, all right? It doesn't involve guys with guns at the polls, thank god. It's happening in voters' inboxes. But it can be scary, all right? Voters are getting emails like this one, claims to come from the Proud Boys. When I saw that, immediately, I had to be like, "Well they can't be doing this. They know they'd get in legal trouble immediately." But the impact is the same. The Proud Boys are a hate group, right, and they're a symbol as well. The President told them to "Stand back and stand by." Now, this, the subject line threatens "Vote for Trump or else!" The email says they have the person's personal information, and threaten to come after them, unless they vote for Trump. Now, this is what voter intimidation looks like, OK? And it is definitely illegal, which is why I didn't buy the email there being so obvious. Let's bring in Donie O'Sullivan on the investigation into these emails. Donie, one of the classic mistakes is "Ah! Come on! I mean they already voted. I mean how could these people be worried about that?" It's scary, when you're not used to this kind of behavior. So, what do we know about who is doing it? Do they really believe it's the Proud Boys?</s>DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN POLITICS & TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Yes, Chris, I mean, so when you see an email there, that email you showed, when it shows up on your computer screen, you just see the message. But there is details, metadata it's called, sort of under the hood of an email. So, we have obtained some of these emails that were sent to voters, in Florida, over the past few days. I'm working with John Scott-Railton. He's a cyber-expert, at The Citizen Lab, at the University of Toronto. We've been looking into how these emails were sent. And here is what we know. We know that one of the emails that we looked at was actually routed through computers in Saudi Arabia. Earlier, VICE News looked at the same message sent to a different voter. When they looked at this metadata, they saw it was routed through Estonia. Now, does that mean that these emails came from somebody in Estonia and Saudi Arabia? No. What it does mean is that whoever is behind, sending these messages, are taking pretty sophisticated steps, this isn't a totally amateur operation here, pretty sophisticated steps to hide who they are, and also to make sure that they can get around Gmail's and other services' spam filters, to make sure that these messages are getting into voters' inboxes and are tracking them, Chris.</s>CUOMO: So, what does that tell us about whether or not this is somebody from the outside who is doing what we see inimical actors do all the time, or that this is a friendly to the Trump side, or a friendly to the Biden side? Who is this seen as helping, and what's the answer to the other question?</s>O'SULLIVAN: Yes. So, I mean, the answer right now is we do not know. We have to be very clear that we do not know who is behind sending these emails, whether they are an actor here in the U.S. or somebody outside of the U.S. The Proud Boys, the hate group that Trump embraced, deny that they sent these messages. Obviously, as you mentioned, the effect here is the same. The voter is still intimidated. And Chris, you might remember, earlier in the summer, you and I spoke about, when there was protests, happening across the U.S., there was a fake Antifa account that was set up on Twitter that ended up being amplified by Donald Trump Jr. as sort of an example as to why we should all fear Antifa.</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>O'SULLIVAN: It later turned out that that account was actually run by White supremacists. So, it's very possible that in this case, this might not be from the Proud Boys at all, but could be from somebody either in the U.S. or outside of the U.S., trying to gin up trouble, trying to sort of push that unrest.</s>CUOMO: Donie, appreciate it, thank you very much. I wish we had some news you can use, in terms of how to stop it. But it's hard. They're finding ways away around spam filters. So, if you see it, relax, call the authorities, tell them what it is, they may have an answer for you about what's happening in your area. But it is happening, and I want you to know. Information is power. Trump, in Pennsylvania tonight, hoping to shore up support in that battleground state. He says, to his supports, he's winning three points to four points in Pennsylvania. Is he right? Let's check in with the Wizard of Odds. Is he right about that, his notion of how he's doing in Pennsylvania, that "If the election was today, I'd win in North Carolina, I'm up in Ohio," you know, "Obviously, I'm up in Florida?"</s>HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER & ANALYST: Ha! You can look at my facial expressions. We could look at the average of polls there in those states. And the fact is, is he's losing in all of them, right? He's losing in Pennsylvania. He's losing in Florida. He's losing in Wisconsin. He's losing just across the board in the six closest states that he won in 2016. Now obviously, in North Carolina, those races are much closer, right? They're within the margin of error. But Michigan and Wisconsin, he has clear leads - Biden has clear leads right now.</s>CUOMO: All right. There have been 50 polls in Pennsylvania that we appreciate, here at CNN, as legitimate. How many have had Trump leading?</s>ENTEN: Yes, this is exactly right. I went back and looked at the non-partisan polls, in Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin, in Michigan. And if you add those states to the Clinton states that she won four years ago, that gets Joe Biden over 270 electoral votes. Trump ahead in any of them, zero. Zero pollsters in the State of Pennsylvania have found Joe Biden ahead. In Michigan, it's just two. In Wisconsin, it's just one. And those are polls that I don't necessarily trust all that much, to be perfectly honest with you. If you look at just the pure number of polls that have been taken in these places, non-partisan polls, I just don't really understand. And if the Trump campaign really wants to say, "Oh, in fact we're out there," then they can publish their partisan polls. We'd at least get a look at them. Otherwise, it's just like a lot of the things that Trump says. There's just no proof for it anywhere.</s>CUOMO: Zero have found Trump ahead, as we just showed on the slide there. OK, thank you for that point. Now, two other things. One, White working-class voters, what do we know about how Trump is doing with them, in battleground states? And what kind of notion do you have as to why there's slippage?</s>ENTEN: Yes, so if we could jump ahead to the slide, look at Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, basically take an average of them, right? And what we saw, back in 2016, was Trump won amongst those voters, in those states, by 21 points. Now, that's dropped down to 11 percentage points. So, he's still ahead. But the fact is when you're only winning those states by a point or less, you need to be able to hold onto your base. Now, here is what I think the key sort of factor is. It's really White women, White non-college women, who have been slipping away, and that is part of a larger discussion, in which Donald Trump has really just lost any of the ground that he held with White women. If you look at White women overall, he's trailing there. He won that group in 2016. And we're seeing that leak into the non-college White women as well.</s>CUOMO: I skipped over the "Even if Biden doesn't win Florida, he could still win," because I reject the premise. I think if you lose Florida, means something about what's happening in the macro electorate. So cobbling together the states is not just math for me, because the methodology matters. If Biden loses Florida, we have a very long night, that night, and probably for two days or three days afterwards, so we'll deal with that when we get closer. But Harry, thank you very much, for making the picture a little bit more clearer. Here we are, 14 days out. Thanks, Wiz.</s>ENTEN: My pleasure, my friend.</s>CUOMO: All right. So, our next guest worked alongside Donald Trump before there was even a Trump Tower, OK? Her name is Barbara Res. And she is sharing story after story about what she says was a man full of racism that there's no question for her that the uglier assessments of his character and what he's about are accurate in her experience. 18 years of life in Trump-world, she's going to make the case, she's going to deal with the shots against her, and her case, next.</s>TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

Former Longtime Trump Associate Releases Scathing Tell-All Book.

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.</s>CUOMO: "Donald Trump didn't want people to know that African-Americans helped build Trump Tower. He didn't want them hanging out in the lobby because people were going to come in there, looking to buy million- dollar condos." Those are just a couple of the scathing allegations from Barbara Res. And she would know. She worked for Trump, for nearly two decades, including as an Executive Vice President for the Trump Organization. Her new book, out today, is called "Tower of Lies." Barbara, welcome to</s>PRIME TIME. BARBARA RES, FORMER EXECUTIVE VP, TRUMP ORGANIZATION, AUTHOR, "TOWER OF LIES": Thank you, it's my pleasure.</s>CUOMO: Should have written it sooner, should have written it 40 years ago. What are you doing it now for?</s>RES: Yes. Well better late than never, right? I think it's very important that any information, anything anyone can do, should be done right now, to see if we can stop this man from getting reelected. And this is what I can do. I can share my information and my stories.</s>CUOMO: Trump says time and again, "I'm not a bigot. I love Black people. I see everybody the same." You don't buy it?</s>RES: No. I mean, you know, the funny thing is that there are so few people that he sees the same. He discriminates for different reasons against most of us. But with the Black people, that was very, very bad, very telling of him to, to call us over, myself and the project manager, then he saw a Black man, working on the deck, the concrete deck, and he said, "Get him off of there. I don't want people to thinking Blacks are building Trump Tower." That was shocking to me, actually.</s>CUOMO: Is it true that the President or then-citizen Trump had a desire to only have Jewish people do the accounting, and count his numbers, and that even when he had an African-American man, who was distinguishing himself, in the casino businesses, as a bean counter, as a money guy, he said, "No, no, no, I want Jews counting my money?" Is that true?</s>RES: It sounds like it might be true. It sounds very true. But that was from someone else's book.</s>CUOMO: OK.</s>RES: But I do - I do think that. It sounds like him.</s>CUOMO: Now, you say, "Hey, it doesn't matter that I worked for him a long time ago, it's the same." I don't think that's the problem. The problem - the hurdle for you is, if he was so bad, why did you work for him for so long?</s>RES: Yes, people ask me that all the time. First of all, he wasn't as bad then as he is now. I mean, the seeds were there. And that's what my book is about, it's sort of like transitioning you from, back in the 1980s, through you know, today. And he was - he did do things that were racist. He did many things that were sexist. But you got to look at it from my point of view. I was a woman engineer working in the construction development business. There weren't a lot of places for me to go. And the people weren't really very different back then. I was unhappy with the incident with the young architectural student in the lobby. I was very unhappy with that and</s>I-- CUOMO: You're talking about when you brought someone in for a job, and they were Black, and he said, "No, no, no, I don't want them coming in. I don't even want them in the lobby, when I got people in here buying expensive places?"</s>RES: Yes. Actually, he saw the man in the lobby, and told me, "Don't ever do that again. I don't want - I don't want Black kids," he called him a kid, he was probably 20, "Sitting in the lobby, where people are coming in to build multi-million dollar apartments." But I thought to myself then, and more so now, actually, as I go over this, what would I have done, if I wanted to hire the young man? See, he wasn't my first choice. He just - he was - there were others that I wanted to use above - preferred over him. And I'm back and forth over it. I'm not - I'm not so sure. But I think I might have hired him. I think I probably would have taken down on that one.</s>CUOMO: And I know you say in the book, because look, another obvious challenge to the theory is, if he's such a sexist, how come it didn't affect you? You say you were the exception, not the rule. But I think the big thing for people to glean from the book is that his supporters love him and see him in a way that's not really about love. It's really the wrong word. Identity. He gets who they are. He understands them--</s>RES: Right.</s>CUOMO: --in a way that these other politicians don't. You say that that's his greatest con. How so?</s>RES: Well he's - since way back, when in '78, when I started working on the Hyatt, he'd go around with the contractors, and he'd glad hand them, and he put his thumb on their back, "How are you doing? What do you think of my building? Isn't this great? Blah, blah, blah," he had no respect for them whatsoever. He just didn't - he knew how to play it, and he knew that that would make him popular, and that's what he thought he needed to do. But I'll tell you a story that's in the book, which is a good story, really. When you finish a project, you have a big celebration. It's called a topping up party. It's actually when you finish the structure. And everyone gets together and there's a big--</s>CUOMO: It's usually for the crew.</s>RES: Excuse me? Well, that's the point, that's my story.</s>CUOMO: Oh.</s>RES: So, when we told Donald, we had to plan this, he was "Oh, great! You know, we're going to do this. We're going to do that. It's going to be great, great, great, great, great." And, at some point in time, we mentioned the men, you know, it's going to be hard to pull together with the men, you know, because we had so many. And Trump said, "What are you talking about? I don't want them there." It was like, "But this - Donald, this is for the men." It was all men at the time, and it still is, not for the politicians and the owners and stuff, you know. And it took us a long time to get him to actually, you know, "Well can't we just have the foremen? Do we have to have the men? You know, I'm going to have champagne here, and caviar and, you know, this is not for construction workers." And it was very, very telling to me because it just - it was not even a thought to him. He had absolutely no regard for these people that were building this building for him. No regard at all.</s>CUOMO: Barbara Res, interesting book! Especially now, people want to know what's going on. The "Tower of Lies" is the book. If you want to know, read. Barbara Res, thank you for talking to me about it tonight, best of health to you and the family.</s>RES: Thank you, Chris, good night.</s>CUOMO: All right. Now, the word "Deplorable," when Hillary Clinton used it in that election, boy, did it zero in on the sense of humiliation, and being looked down on, and this division between the us and them, the elites and the workers. When Hillary Clinton did that, it was a big deal. And it hurt a lot of people. Now they wear it as a badge of honor. I want you to ride in a dune buggy with Trump's higher-earning supporters. It sheds light on why they vote the way they vote. This is not about those scrapping to get by. Why are they voting for him? What does it mean? What does he mean? Next.</s>TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

Supreme Court Allows Pennsylvania To Count Votes After Election Day; Debate Commission Adds Mute Button To Trump-Biden Face-Off; President Trump Focuses On Attacking Dr. Fauci, Not COVID.

LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR: A divided Supreme Court rules ballots can still be counted even if they arrive after Election Day in a critical swing state.</s>CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: And what happens if Thursday's debate disintegrates into a sideshow? We'll explain the commission's new rule. Good morning, this is EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.</s>JARRETT: And I'm Laura Jarrett, about 32 minutes past the hour here in New York. And we begin with a big lift for Democrats in maybe the most pivotal battleground state. As President Trump heads to Pennsylvania today, the U.S. Supreme Court, overnight, rejecting a request by the state Republican Party to limit mail-in voting. Now this decision could change the fate of thousands of ballots in a crucial swing state that the president won by just a hair back in 2016.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Pennsylvania voters deserve clarity and confidence in an election that's already underway here in Pennsylvania, and this ruling tonight by the Supreme Court of the United States gives them both. And it shuts down yet another attack by Donald Trump and his enablers on the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.</s>ROMANS: As of last Friday, Democrats had requested almost three times as many mail ballots as Republicans in the state. The Supreme Court decision may also foreshadow the way the court is about to be reshaped. CNN's John Harwood has more from Washington.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The United States Supreme Court has handed a major victory to Pennsylvania Democrats and Joe Biden's campaign by allowing a State Supreme Court ruling to stand that permits mail-in votes to be counted if they're received up to three days after Election Day, even if the postmark is not legible. Three points to make about this ruling. First of all, it's a big advantage for Democrats because Pennsylvania may be the tipping point state in the campaign -- the one that decides the Electoral College battle. And most people who have indicated a desire to vote by mail say they plan to vote for Joe Biden. Republicans have wanted as few of those mail-in votes to count as possible. The second point is that because Joe Biden has a significant lead -- more than six points in the polling averages -- the ruling may not end up mattering all that much because it may not be close enough that the number of disqualified ballots makes a big difference. The third point to make is that the U.S. Supreme Court was deadlocked four to four and that increases the importance of Amy Coney Barrett, who Republicans are trying to rush through in the Senate to join the court to have a full component of nine justices. In this ruling, it was a deadlocked court, four to four -- the four hardcore conservative justices on the court versus the three liberals and Chief Justice John Roberts, who is very concerned about preserving the credibility of the court and making it not seem so partisan. But if Amy Coney Barrett gets on that court, we don't know what cases could reach the Supreme Court that were relevant to the election. But if so, it appears likely, given her ideological predisposition, that those deadlocked cases would tip toward the conservative and the Republican side -- Laura and Christine.</s>JARRETT: John, thank you for that. Breaking overnight, both presidential candidates will have their microphones muted during portions of their final debate on Thursday night. Now, the Commission on Presidential Debates announced the change after President Trump constantly interrupted Biden during that first debate. At the start of each of the six debate segments, each candidate will be given two minutes to answer a question -- and during that period of time, the other candidate's microphone will be muted. It's worth noting, however, that even if the microphones are off, interruptions would still clearly be heard in the debate hall and that could slow things down. The president has called the change unfair but he says he will nevertheless participate.</s>ROMANS: All right. If you were looking at Twitter or listening to a campaign call or watching a rally Monday, you saw a common thread. President Trump on the offensive -- not against coronavirus but against the man charged with stopping the pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci. Two hundred twenty thousand Americans are now dead. Fifty-eight thousand new COVID cases yesterday alone. For comparison, Japan, with about one-third of the U.S. population, had a grand total of 310 cases yesterday.</s>JARRETT: The president held two more rallies without social distancing and very few masks to be seen in the battleground of Arizona. Mr. Trump has traveled to 10 states in the last nine days, the vast majority of them where cases are skyrocketing, and he's holding potential super-spreader events. Cases are declining only in one state, Hawaii. But the president's closing argument for the election has devolved into a campaign of insults against. Dr. Fauci.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had and we have COVID. People are saying whatever, just leave us alone. They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots -- these people -- these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci's a nice guy. He's been for 500 years. He called every one of them wrong. And he's like this wonderful guy -- a wonderful sage. And yet, we keep him. Every time he goes on television there's always a bomb, but there's a bigger bomb if you fire him.</s>ROMANS: So that's how the president talks about one of the most respected public health experts in the country. But he loves Dr. Scott Atlas, someone who has dismissed the value of masks and been pushing a herd immunity strategy that health experts warn is dangerous and unethical. And piling on Fauci right now is not leaving scientists amused.</s>DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: What Donald Trump is doing is attacking the fire department when the house is burning down. This is a very, very dangerous time, especially to be attacking the one person the nation now looks to for clear, consistent guidance.</s>JARRETT: Tonight, first lady Melania Trump will attend a rally with her husband in Pennsylvania. It's her first big public appearance since contracting COVID and her first campaign appearance in over a year.</s>ROMANS: So, coronavirus concerns go beyond case count. Hospitalizations at their highest point now since August 26th, and these are not the asymptomatic people who can recover at home. These people are sick -- they have to be hospitalized. Nursing homes still a big concern, too. All 62 residents in one Kansas nursing home became infected; 10 died. Over the past two weeks, 42 states have seen hospitalizations increase by more than five percent. Fourteen states have hit peaks in the last week.</s>DR. TOM MILLER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH HEALTH: We are managing right now, but if we increase another 20-30 percent we're going to have to pull in all kinds of additional help. The kids going back to school, colleges getting back together -- those infections generally in those age groups don't very often result in hospitalizations, but then there's vertical transmission to parents and grandparents, and then those people who are at risk.</s>JARRETT: In California, the governor says the state won't allow any vaccine to be distributed until it's reviewed by the state's own panel of experts, no matter who wins the November election. In Mississippi, the governor is now requiring hospitals across the state to reserve 10 percent capacity for coronavirus patients and require face coverings in nine counties there. This includes Jackson County where nearly 200 band students are now quarantined after several members tested positive.</s>ROMANS: All right. There are only two weeks until Election Day, but no matter who wins one of the most pressing issues the administration will have to solve is America's battered jobs market. In a new report, S&P Global's chief U.S. economist said, quote, "Labor market data shows the economy mired in a weak recovery, with the unemployment rate still high at 7.9 percent -- above or equal to the peak of eight of the past 11 recessions." The jobless rate might actually underrepresent how fragile the pandemic labor market is. Americans discouraged by the lack of available jobs, worried about the virus, or needing to stay home to be caregivers -- they have dropped out of the labor force. The unemployment rate doesn't factor those workers in. The jobless rate isn't expected to get back to pre-pandemic levels before the year 2024.</s>JARRETT: The country hardest hit by coronavirus right now -- it's the Czech Republic. It has more new cases per million people than any other major country in the world. Now, early on, mask-wearing helped keep the virus under control there but patience ran out, people stopped wearing their masks, and COVID, of course, surged. Now the government is making a big shift. CNN has reporters covering the pandemic around the world.</s>SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in Berlin where the nearby Czech Republic is recording more new coronavirus cases per capita than any other major country on earth. The first wave of the virus there was barely a blip on the radar screen thanks, in part, to a strict mask mandate. But in the summer months when the cases started to rise again, the populist prime minister said no to reinstating it. Yesterday, though, the health minister announced that masks will again be required outdoors in urban areas. There are some exceptions but this mandate is nearly as strict as the one in place in the spring, which helped make Czech Republic so successful in tamping down the virus.</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Phil Black in London where the government has announced it wants to pay for volunteers to be exposed to the coronavirus. This hospital will host human challenge trials where young, healthy people are given a potential vaccine. And then to test it, they're deliberately dosed with the virus. The government thinks this will be a useful tool for more efficiently identifying the most promising of the many vaccines being developed around the world. But there will be risks because there are no guaranteed treatments for COVID-19.</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Melissa Bell in Paris. The French first lady, Brigitte Macron, is having to self-isolate for seven days as per French rules after coming into contact with someone last Thursday who turned out to be COVID-19-positive. This as France's positivity rate continues to climb, standing now at 13.4 percent nationally. All eyes very much now on whether the curfews that are in place in 10 French cities, including here in Paris, will have the desired effect. For now, though, the number of COVID-19 patients in ICUs has risen above 2,000 for the first time since May.</s>DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm David Culver in Yiwu, China and this is a city about a four-hour drive outside of Shanghai. The reason we're here is because this is one of the first places where China is releasing the COVID-19 vaccine, one of many that they have in phase-three trials. And you can see folks are gathering around this community hospital. We learned over the weekend they had several people receive the vaccine. However, one hospital worker telling us today they have just run out. Folks here standing by for when new supplies come in.</s>ROMANS: All right, thanks to our reporters all around the world. We'll be right back.

Supreme Court Allows Pennsylvania to Count Votes After Election Day; Debate Commission Will Mute Candidates

LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR: A divided Supreme Court rules ballots can still be counted even if they arrive after Election Day in a critical swing state. It's a decision that could help Democrats now but serves as a warning of what could happen on the high court later on.</s>CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Then what happens if Thursday's debate disintegrates into a side show? We'll explain the commission's new rule. Welcome to our viewers in the United States, and around the world. This is EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.</s>JARRETT: And I'm Laura Jarrett. It's Tuesday, October 20th. It's 5:00 a.m. here in New York. Exactly two weeks to the election. Early voting starts today in Wisconsin, Utah, and Hawaii. There's also a deadline to request a mail-in ballot in Maryland, Nevada, and New Mexico.</s>ROMANS: Big lift for Democrats in maybe the most pivotal battleground state, as President Trump heads to Pennsylvania today, the U.S. Supreme Court overnight rejected a request by the state Republican Party to limit mail-in voting. As of last Friday, Democrats had requested almost as many as three times as the mail-in ballot as Republicans in the state. So, this decision could change the fate of thousands of ballots in a crucial swing state the president won by just a hair in 2016.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Pennsylvania voters deserve clarity and confidence in an election that's already underway here in Pennsylvania. And this ruling tonight by the Supreme Court of the United States gives them both. And it shuts down yet another attack by Donald Trump and his enablers on the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.</s>JARRETT: Case in point, remember we told you last week that Allegheny County, including Pittsburgh will have to reissue 29,000 ballots because incorrect ballots were sent across the county. Well, now, those voters won't have to worry if the mail is slow. The decision may also foreshadow the way the high court is about to be reshaped for generations to come. CNN's John Harwood has more now from Washington.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The United States Supreme Court has handed a major victory to Pennsylvania Democrats and Joe Biden's campaign by allowing a state Supreme Court ruling to stand that permits mail-in votes to be counted if they're received three days after Election Day, even if the postmark is not legible. Three points to make about this ruling. First of all, it's a big advantage for Democrats. Pennsylvania may be the tipping point state in the campaign, the one that decides the Electoral College battle and most people who have indicated a desire to vote by mail say they plan to vote for Joe Biden. Republicans have wanted as few of those mail-in votes to count as possible. Second point is that because Joe Biden has a significant lead, more than 6 points in the polling averages, the ruling may not end up mattering all that much because it may not be close enough that the number of disqualified ballots makes a big difference. The third point to make is that the U.S. Supreme Court was deadlocked 4-4, and that increases the importance of Amy Coney Barrett who Republicans are trying to rush through in the Senate to join the court to have a full component of nine justices. In this ruling, it was a deadlocked court, the four hard core conservative justices on the court, versus the three liberals, and chief justice John Roberts who's very concerned about preserving the credibility of the court in making it not seemed so partisan. But if Amy Coney Barrett gets on that court, we don't know what cases could reach the Supreme Court that were relevant to the election. But if so, it appears likely given her ideological predisposition that those deadlocked cases would tip toward the conservative and Republican side -- Laura and Christine.</s>ROMANS: All right, John, thank you so much for that. The Supreme Court ruling just a part of a nationwide battle over voting, especially in crucial swing states. In Michigan, Republicans scored a win when an appeals court reinstated election day as the deadline for absentee votes. A lower court extended by two weeks because of the pandemic's effect on mail delivery. And in North Carolina, the state board of election will accept ballots through November 12th, if postmarked by Election Day. Early voting records shattered, by the way, from Georgia to Texas to North Carolina, to Florida where some big counties started in-person early voting yesterday.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it'd take a whole day, I'd be standing here.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be standing here all day. I'll do that.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people aren't working right now. But regardless of what was coming, I know what I intended to do.</s>JARRETT: More long lines are expected across Wisconsin as the state opens up for early voting. The state played a central role in Trump's victory back in 2016, as rural and working class voters rejected Democrats throughout the Upper Midwest. It's part of the reason 94-year-old Mildred Madison, born when Calvin Coolidge was president had her son drive her more than 600 miles from Illinois back home to Michigan so that she could vote after she never got her absentee ballot.</s>MILDRED MADISON, TRAVELED MORE THAN 800 MILES TO VOTE: Women got the last, especially black women, we're the last ones that got the power to vote. It's wonderful to see a black woman running for vice president.</s>JARRETT: More than 28 million Americans across the country so far have already voted for president.</s>ROMANS: Breaking overnight, both presidential candidates will have their microphones muted during portions of their final debate Thursday night. The Commission on Presidential Debates announced the change after Trump constantly interrupted Biden during the first debate. At the start of each of the six debates segment, each candidate will be given two minutes to answer a question. During that two minute period, the other candidate's microphone will be muted. It's worth noting, even if microphones are off, interruptions will still be heard in the debate hall and could slow things down. President Trump calls the change unfair, but says he will participate.</s>JARRETT: So, if you were looking at twitter or listening to a campaign call or watching a rally on Monday, you saw a common thread. President Trump on the offensive, not against coronavirus, though, but against the man charged with stopping the pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci. Two hundred and twenty thousand Americans are dead, 58,000 new COVID cases yesterday alone. For comparison, Japan, with about a third of the U.S. population, had a grand total of 310. Yes, 310 cases yesterday.</s>ROMANS: The president held two more rallies without social distancing and few masks if battleground Arizona. Mr. Trump has traveled to ten states in the last five days. Cases are skyrocketing and he is holding potential super spreader events. Cases are declining in only one state, Hawaii, but the president's closing argument for the election has now devolved into a campaign of insults against Dr. Fauci.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I have had, and we have COVID. People are saying whatever, just leave us alone. They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci is a nice guy. He has been here for 500 years. He called every one of them wrong, he's like this wonderful guy, a wonderful sage. And yet we keep him. Every time he goes on television, there's always a bomb, but there's a bigger bomb if you fire him.</s>JARRETT: So, that's how the president talked about one of the most respected public health experts in our country, but yet he loves Dr. Scott Atlas, someone who has dismissed the value of wearing a face masks, and has been pushing so-called herd immunity, a strategy that health experts warned is very dangerous. And the piling on Fauci right now is not leaving scientists very amused.</s>DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: What Donald Trump is doing is attacking the fire department when the house is burning down. This is a very, very dangerous time especially to be attacking the one person the nation now looks to for clear, consistent guidance.</s>ROMANS: That's a powerful metaphor there. With the Trump campaign desperately needing a softer touch in a way that maybe preempt attention on former President Obama campaigning for Joe Biden tomorrow, Melania Trump will attend a rally with her husband in Pennsylvania tonight. It's her first public appearance since contracting COVID and her first campaign appearance in over a year.</s>JARRETT: So, coronavirus concerns go beyond case counts right now. Hospitalizations are rising at a startling rate. Just look at this, they are at their highest point since August 26th and these are not the asymptomatic people who can just recover at home. These are people who are very, very sick. Over the past two weeks, 46 states have seen hospitalizations increase by more than 5 percent.</s>DR. TOM MILLER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH HEALTH: We are managing right now, but if we increase, you know, another 20, 30 percent, we're going to have to pull in all kinds of additional help. Kids going back to school, colleges, you know, getting back together. Those infections generally in those age groups very often result in hospitalizations but then there's vertical transmission to parents and grandparents, and then those people who are at risk.</s>JARRETT: New research also shows long-term heart damage is likely in some survivors of COVID-19. The virus damages the lungs and their ability to infuse fresh oxygen into the blood.</s>ROMANS: In California, the governor says the state won't allow any vaccine to be distributed until it's reviewed by the state's own panel of experts, no matter who wins the election. In Mississippi, the governor is requiring hospitals across the state to reserve 10 percent capacity for coronavirus patients and requiring face coverings in nine counties, this includes Jackson County where band members were quarantined after several members tested positive at Ocean Springs High School. New York state is working to get hot spots under control, a wedding for a rabbis grandson, expected to draw more than 10,000 guests, that has been barred by state order.</s>JARRETT: All right. Still ahead for you, it's deadline day for a stimulus deal. We have been waiting for this. Millions of Americans desperate for help right now, all but guaranteed to be left behind by Congress, and a White House that won't do their jobs.

Dodgers and Rays Square Off in World Series.

ROMANS: Well, after a season of road blocks, the World Series is set to begin tonight in Arlington, Texas. Andy Scholes is there live with more of this morning's "Bleacher Report". Hi, Andy.</s>ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, good morning, Christine. You know, there was a time we didn't think baseball was going get here after COVID-19 outbreaks with the Marlins and the Cardinals, but tonight, the two best teams during the shortened regular season, the Rays and the Dodgers are going to take the field for game one of the World Series, first ever neutral site World Series. And I'll tell you what, the way the two teams were built, the Dodgers and Rays could not be more different. The Dodgers, one of the highest payrolls in all of baseball, while the Rays have one of the lowest. Now, Tampa Bay, one of five teams who have never won a World Series. The Dodgers meanwhile have not won one since 1988 and this is going to be L.A.'s third World Series in the past four years, and they think this will finally be their year.</s>JUSTIN TURNER, LOS ANGELES DODGERS THIRD BASEMAN: From day one, you know, we came out as a group, and said if there's a championship to be won, we're going to go after it, and we're going to try to run it down.</s>TYLER GLASNOW, TAMPA BAY RAYS PITCHER: I think we understand mow good we are as a team. I think stepping outside of it knowing that they all do have high payrolls, and we have the lowest it pretty outstanding. I just say in terms of numbers in general, just like how good the front office has done and what the organization has done to put this team together is pretty amazing.</s>SCHOLES: All right. Now, across the street from where we are here at Globe Life Field, Monday night football is taking place between the Cowboys and Cardinals. Last night, about 25,000 fans on hand for this. And Kyler Murray just loves AT&T Stadium. Dating back to high school, he has never lost there. Now, a perfect 7-0. He threw for two touchdowns. Cardinals blew out the Cowboys, 38-10. Some sad times for Cowboys fans as they are 2-4 on the season. The Chiefs and Bills playing their rescheduled game early last night. Usually it's the Patrick Mahomes show, but the Chiefs going to the round in this one, rushing, 161 yards rushing in this one. Mahomes did throw for two touchdowns, as the Chiefs beat the Bills, 26-17. Finally, the Match is back, no Tiger Woods this time around. It's going to be Phil Mickelson teaming up with basketball hall of famer, Charles Barkley. They're going to be taking on Peyton Manning and Warrior superstar Steph Curry, and exhibition golf match. You can watch it on our sister channel TNT the day after Thanksgiving. The event is going to benefit historically black colleges and university. And Charles Barkley has guaranteed that he and Phil Mickelson are going to win. Definitely going to be fun watching Chuck out there playing golf because he's notoriously one of the worst golfers ever. But, Laura, here in Arlington, Texas, they're going to have about 11,000 fans for each game at the World Series. You have to wear a mask. You have to socially distance yourself in the seats at the stadium, and I tell you what, whoever wins this World Series, Laura, definitely going to spoil their fan base because the Lakers just won for the City of Los Angeles a couple of weeks ago, and the Tampa Bay Lighting won the Stanley Cup for the city of Tampa. So, whoever wins this World Series is going to be spoiled this year.</s>JARRETT: I can tell you're fired up. We're glad you're there this morning for us, Andy. Thanks so much. Good to see you. All right. Two major developments on the election overnight. A deadlocked Supreme Court decides mail-in ballots can get counted even after Election Day in a pivotal swing state. And the debate commission debates when the candidates can talk.

Trump Holds PA Rally as Closing Days Become Increasingly Erratic

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing. Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.</s>ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump's erratic closing argument abruptly ending a national interview attacking the media, attacking Dr. Fauci, even top Republicans are saying change course now. Plus, the path to 270, John King on who has the momentum and which states are flipping. And an alarming warning tonight from Trump's former FDA Commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, warning the U.S. could be just days away from a 'rapid acceleration of cases'. Let's go OUTFRONT. And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, frantic and erratic. Trump's behavior two weeks before election day is causing fear among Republicans tonight. Top Republicans saying get it together and change course fast. So will the President listen to that advice? He's got a chance tonight. Live pictures, rally. This rally is in Erie, Pennsylvania. A county the President won by fewer than 2,000 votes in 2016. He needs every vote to get him across the finish line, yet the President today chose to focus his ire, yet again, on Dr. Anthony Fauci.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a nice guy, but he's been wrong. The only thing I say is he's a little bit, sometimes not a team player. But he is a Democrat and I think that he's just fine.</s>BURNETT: Of course, Fauci is not a Democrat, even though that wouldn't matter. And the attacks on Fauci are causing concern among Republicans and that's part of why our Manu Raju is now reporting that several influential Republicans have been pleading with the President to change his ways immediately. Sen. John Thune is the second most powerful Republican in the Senate. And he tells Manu and I quote Sen. Thune here, "I would like to see in the closing days of the campaign him prosecute the argument against the Democrats and the difference in policies. Stay away from personal attacks. Quit attacking the media. Quit attacking Fauci and focus on issues. He's got to stay disciplined to do it, and I think that's how you're going to win over the middle people." OK. So you just heard the list of things Sen. Thune said not to do. In other words, he's saying President Trump, don't do this.</s>TRUMP: Michigan, she has to open up. She wants to be a dictator in Michigan, and the people can't stand her. Now we have Kristen Welker. She's a disaster. Pandemic, they're getting tired of the pandemic, aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN, that's all they cover, COVID, COVID, pandemic, COVID ... People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots. Fauci is a disaster. I mean, if I listen to him, we'd have 500,000 deaths.</s>BURNETT: Stay away from personal attacks, quit attacking the media, quit attacking Fauci. Good luck, Sen. Thune. Just tonight, is it to put an explanation point on the chaos Trump has created, the President abruptly walked out of an interview with Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes. An interview that he had chosen to do. He had acquiesced to doing. He had sat down to do and then he walked out. CNN learning the President spoke with Stahl for about 45 minutes and then he was supposed to tape a joint interview with the Vice President Mike Pence. The President though then walked away. Then he tweeted a video, attacking Stahl for not wearing a mask during the interview. Now a person familiar with the situation tells CNN Stahl had a mask on from the time she entered the White House until just before the interview began. That video was apparently taken immediately after Trump ended the interview and Stahl had not yet gone back to get her mask. Just now Trump tweeting, " I am pleased to inform you that, for the sake of accuracy in reporting, I am considering posting my interview with Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes, PRIOR TO AIRTIME! This will be done so that everybody can get a glimpse of what a FAKE and BIASED interview is all about." OK. Sen. Thune, what did you say again? Quit attacking the media. Again, good luck, Sen. Thune. Is picking a fight like that, really spending time on that a good use of time? That's what this comes down to for the President of the United States when there are two weeks to go until Election Day. Even the President's own party says no. Kaitlan Collins is traveling with the President tonight OUTFRONT in Erie. So Kaitlan, what were you learning about what happened here, why the President walked out of that interview?</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, we're told they were in the room together for about 45 minutes doing this interview. And then, the President abruptly ended it, did not want to go on any longer. It was not a mutual agreement to stop the interview there. And then, of course, the President never returned for that tape portion that they were going to do with the Vice President. So Vice President Mike Pence taped his own interview separately and they are not appearing on camera together as scheduled. But the way you're seeing the President lash out, as you just noted, he is on Twitter, Erin, is really this pattern that we're seeing this week where the President has preemptively gone after the debate moderator for Thursday night. He's also gone after another reporter for what he considered was not asking enough about that unsubstantiated New York Post story and then also these attacks against Dr. Fauci. The sustained messaging that the President is using that is not exactly what his political aides thought was going to be his closing message to voters with just two weeks to go before the election. And it's also clearly not what Republicans want to see either because you're seeing Republicans start to distance themselves from the President and from his messaging. And so this is not what he aides had picture, but this is how the President is responding in a way that some people have said is predictable that, of course, he is going to go after someone like Lesley Stahl. Because remember they did that 2016 interview as well and the President has really held this kind of grudge against Lesley Stahl since then. But it is on tape, the White House has not released any of that yet. Neither has 60 Minutes, so we'll just have to wait to see exactly what it was, what the President's reaction was when he wraps that interview.</s>BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much. And OUTFRONT now Abby Phillip, CNN Political Correspondent, Ed Goeas, Republican pollster and strategist, and former Political Director of the National Republican Congressional Committee, and Paul Begala, who served as White House counselor to President Clinton. Ed, let me start with you. You hear Sen. Thune, stop attacking the media, stop having these personal attacks, of course, as the President continues to do those things. Are Republicans doing the right thing to call that out, to run away from Trump right now or not?</s>ED GOEAS, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER AND STRATEGIST: I don't know that it's running away as much as is calling among things that he needs to be called on and it does need to stop. It's not helping the environment at all. It is very interesting that if you look at four years ago, both candidates that were running, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, hit over a 50 percent unfavorable rating. That's not where this race is today. He is still upside down by 10 points on his favorables and Biden is net 18 points better on his favorables. So as he finds people lash out, all he's doing is activating his negatives. He's not helping draw any new voters to him at this point.</s>BURNETT: So Paul, when you hear Ed's analysis, I mean, that's just his objective analysis as Republican pollster. Are Democrats feeling confident right now or if so, do they do so at their own peril?</s>PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They do so at their peril and you're exactly right. They're not overconfident, believe me. They're living in this border town between passionate and panicked. In fact I talk to Democrats all the time. The most common thing that Democrats say is - they're scared to death and they're highly motivated and I want them to be that way. I'm sorry for screaming your ear, but that's what they say. Seriously, you call them, that's what they say, a primal scream at the prospect that somehow Trump might get a second term. So they're highly motivated.</s>BURNETT: So Abby, the President says he's going to release the 60 Minutes footage. Let's just be clear, though, obviously there's Sen. Thune saying just stop with these wars with the media. They're not helpful right now. So the President is now doing this whole thing with 60 Minutes. The audience for that show, obviously, is not just his base, though. Ed is talking about those very small group, but the undecided or independents who haven't quite decided what they're going to do. But the President clearly thinks that this battle going back to his usual tropes works with two weeks to go.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't know that the President really cares whether it's working or not. It seems like he's acting based on what he wants to do what he thinks is the most comfortable for him in response to provocations whether it was a tough questioning from Lesley Stahl or perhaps feeling like the interview was tougher on him than it might have been on Dr. Fauci or on Joe Biden, who also had a recent interviews on 60 Minutes. So the strategy, honestly, there is no strategy to any of this. I mean, think about 60 Minutes as a program. The reason the President cares so much about it is because it has a lot of viewers and a lot of those viewers are actually people he needs to support him older voters who he's struggling with in this campaign. So when it comes to strategy, the President is going against a strategy that would work best for him. And on top of that, even if you take all of this stuff that the campaign is trying to put out there about Hunter Biden, all of these attacks on the media are a distraction from even that message. And I'm not sure that message is breaking through. So you have the President kind of going here, there and everywhere. There is no strategy whatsoever. And he's not talking about the one thing that he is really competitive with Joe Biden on and that's the economy. That's what Sen. Thune is trying to get him focused on. The President seems very disinterested in that.</s>BURNETT: So Ed, the polls right now do give Biden a big lead nationally and you're referring to the favorables/unfavorables just as a gauge how people have an emotional feel for someone. You do have some key states though within the margin of error, must- win states. Clinton, of course, came into the 2016 election with a national lead and Trump still won. Because it came down to those specific counties, those places where the margin was so razor thin. Is it possible we see a repeat this time of that?</s>GOEAS: Here's where I think things are different. In 2016, 24 percent of the electorate all through the fall dislike both candidates. And going into the final weeks, neither candidate was getting more than 20 percent of that vote, 60 percent of it was up for grabs, it was the swing vote of 2016. Whoever got the focus of the negative last was going to lose and that's what happened with the FBI report. This year, it's only 7 percent dislike both candidates and that's where his numbers in terms of Biden's being net positive by 10 points is so important. Because even if you look at these close races that are equally close to several years ago, 19 percent of the voters that voted on election day in 2016 dislike both candidates and he ended up getting a three to one margin with most of those voters and most of those key states. There's not enough of those voters. They're not the swing vote this year. He has to pull those voters back and he's not going to pull him back at this point by getting them to dislike Biden.</s>BURNETT: Right. It doesn't work that way, so then so then Paul, how or do you think there's any strategy or anything to the media battles that he's picking now? Kristen Welker is the moderator for the debate this week, so he's now slamming her. And, of course, walking out of the interview with Lesley Stahl. So he's playing up the media thing as much as he can right now.</s>BEGALA: And I think Abby's reporting is spot on. I don't think this is driven by a strategy. You heard Sen. Thune, you heard Ed Goeas. I mean, Mr. Trump would do very well to listen to Ed, to listen to Sen. Thune. But what they're saying is focus on issues, focus on the economy, stop the attacks on Dr. Fauci, stop inciting domestic terrorism. But it's like telling Trump that all he needs is a six pack ab and a full head of hair. It's not going to happen. He's Trump. Trump's going to Trump. And these Republicans running away from him, they're running like the devil runs from holy water. In my home State of Texas, John Cornyn who votes with Trump 96 percent of the time is now trying to distance himself from Trump. I mean, even Trump doesn't agree with Trump 96 percent of the time and yet Cornyn is somehow trying now to run away from him.</s>BURNETT: Ed, does the slamming of Fauci, what are your feelings on that? How that plays?</s>GOEAS: Well, I kind of saw that a little bit differently. Whenever you see Trump going out there and just story after story after story going after someone and everyone is kind of shaking their head on what's going on, I thought the story that was going to be out there yesterday morning was that the gross national product in China, the third quarter was 4.9 percent. And the story about how they shut things down, they got control the virus and then they reopened the economy and it's grown in the second and third quarter.</s>BURNETT: Yes, it's ripping. Yes.</s>GOEAS: I think what he was doing yesterday was trying and he was effective at it is to divert the attention away from that story, not one news network play that trend story after about nine o'clock yesterday morning.</s>BURNETT: And you're saying that that would have been, what, a very bad story for Trump.</s>GOEAS: Whenever he is going on a tangent like that, he's usually trying to divert from something he thinks is more harmful.</s>BURNETT: Abby, do you think that's what it's about? I mean, obviously, just to put the context around that, that would show the Chinese strategy, which was complete lockdown had worked and China is rising stronger than ever, when he's trying to say, oh, I'm the guy you should be picking to take on China.</s>PHILLIP: It's possible that that's part of the calculus, but I also think having covered this president for several years, the President lashes out at people who he thinks are attacking him. And in this case, Dr. Fauci said things about the President. He talked about how the White House held a super spreader event. He wasn't surprised that the President contracted the coronavirus. He was sort of saying things that the President did not find to be complimentary and talking about wanting to encourage the President to encourage mask wearing. I mean, look, I think that there's generally in the President's mind, a sense that Fauci needs to get in line and really be in his words, a team player, and he wasn't doing that. Sure, I think it is definitely possible that the President is trying to distract from other headlines that undercut his argument about the strategy that U.S. should be taking. But I also think that at this point, the President is acting based on his gut instincts and his impulses more than anything else.</s>BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you all very much. I appreciate it. And next, John King at the magic wall since we are now T minus two weeks. It comes down to the number 270 and so many votes already cast. Who has the momentum this hour? Plus, Trump's former FDA Commissioner with a dire warning about the coronavirus. Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota OUTFRONT about the surge in his State and the connection to that rally. Remember the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally? Well, it could be a big part of all this. Plus, the push to get one of the most powerful voting blocks to the polls.

First Lady Backs Out of Trump Rally in Key Swing State of PA Due to Lingering Cough Amid Coronavirus Recovery; Biden Showing Momentum in Key Swing States as Trump Fights to Hold Down States He Won in 2016.

BURNETT: New tonight, First Lady Melania Trump backing out of her first Trump campaign event in over a year because of a lingering cough. She recovers from Coronavirus. The rally taking place tonight in Pennsylvania, a key state to Trump's surprise victory in 2016. A state though that could be on the verge of flipping back to Joe Biden. So John King is OUTFRONT the magic wall. So John, when you look at Pennsylvania, what are you seeing there and other key swing states when it comes to this - where we are here, this all important path to 270?</s>JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, we're two weeks out and look at the map. It is clear advantage, Joe Biden. We have 290 electoral votes, the President at 163, dark blue solid Biden light blue leans Biden same for the Republican side. So why are Democrats so nervous? Because they are haunted by 2016. First, let's take a look at the National numbers. I'm the person who tells you all the time, don't over invest in national numbers, but Democrats have reason to be confident. When you have a double digit lead, this is the average CNN poll of polls, averaging five recent credible national polls and 11 point lead tells you that's pretty comfortable. If it gets inside single digits, that's when you worry. So on the surface, Democrats should be happy. But let's do the state by state and that's where you see some reason to be a little bit cautious if not nervous. Let's go state by state. Ten states CNN rates as the most important battleground. In three of them; Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, you see a pretty healthy, comfortable Biden lead, although nothing is comfortable in American politics. But look at the others. Texas, the President has a narrow lead. Ohio, call that a tie, call that a small Biden lead, same in Georgia, Iowa is a tie, North Carolina, Florida, Arizona, very narrow Biden leads certainly within play for the President. So let's play that out on our map. We already lean Texas Republican, let's say the President keeps it. Let's say he gets Arizona back perfectly within the realm of possibility and let's say he runs the toss up states. The President wins Iowa, the President wins Ohio, the President wins North Carolina, the President wins Georgia and the President wins Florida, these are all states the President won in 2016 not out of the realm at all, they would win them again. Where's that get you? 279 to 258. Where else does that get you? Back to Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Under this scenario, if the President won Pennsylvania, again, game over for more years for Donald Trump, right there. Let's say Joe Biden holds on, he was born in Pennsylvania, let's say he holds it. It's 20. It's the biggest of these prizes. President could still get there with the scenario I showed you plus Michigan again. And what if Joe Biden holds Michigan, but the President once again surprises us in Wisconsin? At that point, it could get interesting, 269 to 268. Who wins Maine's second congressional districts in that scenario? If Joe Biden does, he's the President of the United States. If Donald Trump does, it's 269, 269 and it goes to the House of Representatives. I am not suggesting that's what is going to happen. What I am suggesting is if you're Joe Biden and you're looking at this map now and you're thinking how big, how bold, where do I spend my money, do I think I can win Texas, how much time should I spend in Georgia. The one lesson is, remember, right now, you're leading comfortably in Wisconsin, in Michigan, in Pennsylvania and remember 2016, those were the three that made Donald Trump president. If Joe Biden wants to win, priority number one, flip those back to Blue, Erin.</s>BURNETT: John King, thank you. And I want to go now to Larry Sabato, the Founder and Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. So Larry, I'm really glad to have you back on, OK. So you and John King on the same page in terms of the electoral votes. You both have Biden up at 290. Obviously, that gets you the White House. But let's talk about where you see the momentum. Where do you see Biden with the most momentum right now?</s>LARRY SABATO, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: I don't know that there's momentum, Erin, and by the way it's kind of phenomenal. John King and I don't coordinate, we have exactly the same electoral college map for both Trump and for Biden, not that that should lend any credibility to either one. But the fact is, we agree. I don't think there's momentum as much as their stability. And there wasn't stability. Four years ago, Hillary Clinton was up and down at sometimes she was tied with Trump. And there was there was something going on as we found out on election night. Whereas this one, at least for most people, seems to be at least preliminarily decided in their minds about their vote.</s>BURNETT: So OK, are there any states, it's interesting, I like how you phrase that, we're not talking so much momentum as we are stability. Are there places where you think Democrats should be concerned?</s>SABATO: Well, they need to be concerned in the five total tossups, because Trump won them all last time. He won Iowa. He won Ohio. He won North Carolina. He won Georgia. He won Florida. Of course, if Joe Biden can take even one of those winning the other states already leaning to him, I think we may actually have an early election night. Some of the ones leading to him, though, need extra work, whether it's Nevada, which ought to go Democratic, but we all know the Hispanic vote is not as solidly Democratic this year as it was four years ago or Arizona. It's always going to be close for a Democrat. It's amazing that a Democrat could even carry it. Only Clinton did in 1996 and that was a three way race with Dole and Perot.</s>BURNETT: It's pretty incredible when you look at it. Now, you mentioned Iowa. Trump won Iowa by nearly 10 percentage points in 2016. So the fact that you're now talking about that as one of your toss up states, just to give people context on the significance of that move in and of itself. But you actually also say that state being in play could actually decide the Senate as well.</s>SABATO: Yes. The amazing thing is that a freshman Republican who was thought to be safe at the beginning of the year, Joni Ernst, is now either tied or a bit behind the Democrat Theresa Greenfield. And she seems to have a consistent yet small lead and she seems to be doing a bit better in her state than Biden does overall. Biden-Trump are tied 50-50. They're right there next to one another. So yes, it could and if not Iowa, not Greenfield, it could be North Carolina if the Democratic candidate Cal Cunningham hangs on despite the scandal. The one term Republican there, Thom Tillis has been trailing for virtually the entire general election period.</s>BURNETT: Yes. That has been a fascinating race to watch and a lot of unexpected curveballs, as you point out. Republicans, though, Larry, are pointing to voter registration right now in some of these key states. Everybody's been watching this voter registration to try to figure out what you can read into it. Some data show they have narrowed the gap in some crucial states, like North Carolina, like Pennsylvania, like Florida. A states that, by the way, in 2016, as you point out, did go for Trump. So when you look at that voter registration data and Republicans think that it looks good for them, do you agree or do you think there's a nuance we're missing?</s>SABATO: Actually, it's not clear. It could be one of several things not to bore your readers, but could be one of several things. I think it's more important to say, yes, that could be a plus for Republicans. But the tremendous turnout we're seeing in many of these states, dominated by Democrats. Clearly, there about two thirds of the people showing up is a good sign for Democrats. It's a good sign for Biden. So you can play this game all day and all night. And in the end, all of these different variables will balance out and we'll have a winner. And right now in mid-October, it looks to be more likely Joe Biden than Donald Trump, 14 days in the Trump administration, 14 eternity, so we'll see.</s>BURNETT: Right. I mean, so much could change and obviously we still have that debate coming up. Thank you very much, Larry.</s>SABATO: Thank you, Erin.</s>BURNETT: And next, a former Trump official warning of a rapid acceleration of the virus in coming days. The Minnesota Governor, Tim Walz, is OUTFRONT to talk about the surge he's saying in his state. And breaking news this hour, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell telling the White House not to make a major stimulus deal with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi before the election.

Lawmakers Still in Deal Deadlock Just Hours before the Democrats' Deadline Ends; The Final Presidential Debate Will Use a Mute Button; Two Countries, Two Vaccines, a Spotlight on Efforts to Find a Way Out of the Pandemic.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know. Stimulus standstill. Lawmakers still in deal deadlock just hours before the Democrats' deadline ends. Silence secured. The final presidential debate will use a mute button. And trialing times. Two countries, two vaccines. We spotlight efforts to find a way out of the pandemic. It's Tuesday. Let's make a move. A warm welcome to you, all our First Movers all around the globe. Great to have you with us. As the stimulus soap opera drags on in Washington. It's do or die deal time as Democrats have that 48-hour window that closes by the end of today. And as a result, stocks are yo-yoing up and down. U.S. futures, as you can see right now are higher, taking back at least some of Monday's losses on words that progress is being made and talks will continue today. We shall see. European and Asian stocks pretty mixed as you can see on the board there, too. The S&P and the NASDAQ fell some 1.5 percent on Monday. The heavy hitters like Apple, Microsoft, and Tesla pulling back some 1.5 percent, as you can see, or more. Remember, Senate Republicans still have to agree and their message has been bigger, it is not necessarily better. President Trump, though, said just minutes ago he believes that the Senate Republicans will back a deal. We'll see what happens. I have to say, I remain skeptical, and amid all the stimulus uncertainty, profit uncertainty, too, at least on Wall Street. IBM falling premarket after failing to provide guidance about the outlook. Investors are rewarding businesses that can give that guidance and are increasingly less forgiving of those that simply can't. The banks with strong trading businesses, meanwhile, continue to surprise, too. Swiss giant, UBS out with its strongest Q3 results in a decade, profits rising almost 100 percent. It also set aside fewer than $90 million for bad loan provisions, a third of the money booked in the previous two quarters. And one breaking story at this hour, too, sources telling CNN that the U.S. will sue Google for alleged anti-competitive abuses related to search functions later today. All the details on that coming up later on in the show. There's plenty to get through. Let's get to the drivers. The microphones of President Trump and his Democratic rival, Joe Biden will be muted at key moments of Thursday's final presidential debate after chaotic interruptions disrupted their first face-off. Boris Sanchez joins me now. Boris, the Commission acknowledged that one party here is going to say, look, you're not going far enough, and the other party, aka President Trump, is going to say, hang on a second, that's not fair. That's kind of exactly what we got.</s>BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a lot of contention about this decision from the Commission on Presidential Debates. Essentially, the debate is broken up into six 15-minute segments and each candidate gets two minutes at the beginning of that segment to speak without interruption. And the way that the Commission is going to enforce that rule is by muting one of the microphones of these two candidates as their opponent is speaking. This is not something that the Trump campaign is eager about. A Trump campaign official effectively saying that this reveals the Commission's bias for Joe Biden. The President himself actually this morning on a conservative news outlet saying that he believes that this has happened to him before. The President delving into conspiracy here after he had a mic issue during a 2016 debate with Hillary Clinton. Of course, there was no muting of his mic. The audience could hear everything he was saying. It appeared to just clip at different points. That's not stopping the President from moving forward with that claim, though. Of course, one of the big questions here is, how Republicans are going to ultimately defend this stance from the President, considering that many of them argue that during the first debate, Joe Biden started the interruptions by interrupting President Trump during one of his initial responses. It is going to be a huge night on Thursday. It is going to be the final opportunity for these two opponents with such a huge audience to go head- to-head and deliver their message to the American people -- Julia.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's going to be a big night to watch. Boris, someone else who wishes that perhaps they could hit the mute button on President Trump is Dr. Fauci. The President calling into question Fauci's credibility once again yesterday. Fauci, cool as a cucumber said, look, it's a distraction and quoted "The Godfather." talk us through this.</s>SANCHEZ: Yes, Fauci channeling Michael Corleone saying that this is not personal, it's strictly business, that Fauci just wants the American people to be protected and to follow the science when it comes to protecting themselves from the coronavirus. The President, though, this morning, once again going after Fauci with a bit more tame remarks than we've seen in the past. Previously, the President falsely arguing that Fauci has been wrong on an array of issues when it comes to coronavirus, claiming that hundreds of thousands more people would have died if he had followed Fauci's advice than already have in the United States. Today, the President saying that he believes that Fauci is a Democrat, a good friend of the Cuomo family. Quick fact check, Fauci is not affiliated with either political party. The President, though, yesterday making clear that he feels that firing Anthony Fauci would present a lot more problems for him, so it's just something he apparently has to stomach -- Julia.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes. And if I remember in the movie, when you say, nothing personal, strictly business, it's right before you bump someone off, which is interesting, too. But we will say no more about that. Boris Sanchez, thank you so much for that.</s>SANCHEZ: Thank you.</s>CHATTERLEY: Now, besides stimulus plans and earnings reports, many analysts say what's going to be pivotal for economic recovery and turning and corner here is the timing of a vaccine. And in China, the world's number two economy, they are now cautiously rolling out coronavirus vaccines before the conclusion of Phase 3 trials and demand is already high, as David Culver reports.</s>DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They arrived early from all over China, folks lured to the international manufacturing hub of Yiwu City, specifically to this small community hospital. This is one of the first public locations where China has rolled out an experimental COVID- 19 vaccine. They began injecting people over the weekend. The cost, about $60.00 for two doses. Word spread quickly. Some showed up Monday thinking they would get a shot. Anny Ku among them. "This is something important to you, isn't it?" I asked her. "Yes," she replied. Adding, "Because, well, if you have the vaccine it's much safer to leave the country." For more than twenty years, Ku has worked in import/export in Chile and returned home to China amidst the outbreak. She flew to Yiwu the night before we met her. It's a two-hour flight from her home in Southern China. Eager and admittedly, a bit desperate for immunity.</s>CULVER (on camera): And so, they told you they don't have any and so you have to go and find another place.</s>CULVER (voice-over): Hospital staff confirmed to CNN that they had run out. Local officials later announced this distribution was only for those with specific foreign travel needs and preapproval. Ku was not the only one disappointed. Notice the groups of people waiting around the hospital parking lot. Some of them traveled in from neighboring provinces, wanting the vaccine.</s>CULVER (on camera): Yes, would you take the vaccine?</s>CULVER (voice-over): Originally from Syria, we met Anas Chahouta, as he pulled up with his young daughter and wife in the backseat of their car. He was curious, if not also a bit hesitant.</s>CULVER (on camera): If you were to walk in there, and they had it, would you take it today?</s>ANAS CHAHOUTA, YIWU RESIDENT: Actually, I don't know, I don't have the answer.</s>CULVER: As you kind of go through this main entrance here, we do know folks are going in to inquire about how they might be part of this trial, essentially. Because you've got to remember, this is part of the Emergency Approval Use granted by the Chinese government. This is not an actual release of an approved drug as of yet.</s>CULVER (voice-over): The vaccine distributed at this Yiwu hospital is made by Sinovac Biotech. CNN took you through the Beijing-based biotech company in August. It is one of more than a dozen Chinese companies working on a coronavirus vaccine. At the time of our visit in late summer, they were constructing a new facility to meet the production demands, while still going through Phase 3 clinical trials which have not yet concluded. It all seemed to be happening at rapid speeds.</s>HELEN YANG, SINOVAC YOU BIOTECH: None of the staff is sacrificing any quality of our vaccine. Because Sinovac's goal is to provide a vaccine with good quality, good safety, good immunogenicity to the people in the world.</s>CULVER (voice over): China has been trying to push past the early allegations of mishandling, cover ups and silencing of whistleblowers surrounding the initial outbreak in Wuhan. And instead, officials here have highlighted their swift and seemingly successful responses to many cluster outbreaks. The most recent in Qingdao last week, following a major travel holiday. After only a handful of confirmed cases surfaced, health officials began strict contact tracing and tested more than 10 million people in less than a week, and life it seems quickly returned to near normal again. But that's mostly within China, a bubble of sorts. For some whose livelihood is rooted in other parts of the world where cases are surging once again, their only hope may be the vaccine. Anny Ku others on to the next location to track one down. David Culver, CNN, Yiwu, China.</s>CHATTERLEY: Well, let's move on to the next location in the United Kingdom. The government is launching the first human challenge studies for the novel coronavirus. A group of volunteers will be deliberately infected with COVID-19 after being injected with a potential vaccine. Phil Black joins us from London.</s>CHATTERLEY: Phil, the critics here would say without a proven vaccine, this is unethical. These people are certainly brave, taking part in this study. What more do we know?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The way these trials will work, Julia, is that volunteers, indeed, brave, courageous, but financially incentivized volunteers and compensated volunteers will be given a potential vaccine, and then some weeks later, they will come here to London's Royal Free Hospital where they will be deliberately dosed with the virus and doctors will then assess whether the vaccine does its job. And they believe that this is useful to more efficiently assess and identify the most promising of the many vaccines that are being developed around the world. Even before they get to that point, though, they need a round of volunteers who will simply be exposed to the virus itself in what they call a characterization study. This is a very specific study to increase understanding of the virus, but also to refine and develop the specific dose that will be used to then challenge the vaccines in those trials which follow. I spoke to Dr. Martin Johnson, one of the doctors responsible for setting up this challenge trial program. This is what he explained to me in terms of why they need to, first of all, infect volunteers or seek to infect volunteers before you even introduce potential vaccines. Take a listen.</s>DR. MARTIN JOHNSON, SENIOR MEDICAL DIRECTOR, HVIVO: So basically, we're watching disease in motion, right from the very start of inoculation right through to the disease going out of the body. So, it gives us an absolute view of what is happening to the human body during an infectious process.</s>BLACK (on camera): And what is the ideal reaction that you're trying to trigger?</s>JOHNSON: So what we're trying to do is we're trying to get the minimum number of symptoms that are safe and then gives enough scientific evidence.</s>BLACK: Ethically, risk minimization is key to conducting these trials. But they are controversial because you need to minimize risk, you need to use young, healthy volunteers. Critics of challenge trials say that means you're dealing with a very limited profile and these are people who do not represent those in the broader community who most need protection from an effective vaccine. But there is still risk because as you point out, there is no effective guaranteed treatment for COVID-19. It will all be assessed and monitored and overseen by an Ethics Committee, and the job of that committee is to ensure that risk is minimized, but also that the risk is balanced by the potential rewards that could flow from conducting these trials -- Julia.</s>CHATTERLEY: And that's the challenge, isn't it? Balancing all of these things to get a vaccine as efficacious as possible in the soonest possible time. Phil Black, thank you so much for that update there. Fascinating to see. All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories that are making headlines around the world. Russia has recorded its largest daily increase in coronavirus infections, but despite the rise, officials don't believe a full lockdown is necessary. Russia has the fourth highest number of coronavirus cases now in the world. That's in contrast to Latin America where the trend in most countries is now downwards. New cases slowing right down, particularly in Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Peru and Colombia are also moving in the right direction. Argentina, however, has just surpassed one million cases. Now, staying in Latin America, it is not official yet, but the socialist candidate appears to be the winner of Bolivia's high stakes presidential election. Luis Arce, handpicked by the former President, Evo Morales is already receiving congratulatory messages and his rival has accepted defeat. All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, the cost of Bidenomics. Americans will be poorer and unemployment will be higher under President Biden, says a new report from the Hoover Institute, we discuss with author, Kevin Hassett. And building resiliency, the Executive Chairman of high-end gym chain, Equinox joins me as the industry grapples with the coronavirus pandemic and a brewing winter. Stay with us. That's next.

U.S. Supreme Court Allows Pennsylvania to Count Late-Arriving Ballots; Coronavirus Cases Soar Across U.S., Trump Attacks Dr. Fauci.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Just trot all upon the rules and speaking time in the first debate. And now, the Trump campaign says they don't like these new rules. Still he will show up Thursday night to debate Joe Biden.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Okay, now to the coronavirus. Doctors say we've entered a new and more deadly phase in the pandemic. More than 58,000 new coronavirus cases were reported overnight, and that is a very high number for a Monday when counts tend to be lower. 31 states are seeing a rise in cases this morning. Only one state, you can barely see it on our map, but it's Hawaii down at the bottom there, that's the only one in green this morning that's heading in the right direction. 14 states have a record number of hospitalizations this morning. More than 220,000 Americans have died. President Trump is not talking about any of that. Instead, he's attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci, arguably the most respected authority on infectious diseases we have in this country. Public health expert William Haseltine equates this to attacking the fire department when the house is burning down. But we begin with the breaking Supreme Court news and what it means for Pennsylvania and the entire presidential election. Joining us now is Pennsylvania's attorney general, Josh Shapiro. Good morning, Mr. Attorney General.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning. Good to be with you.</s>CAMEROTA: Good to have you. Okay. So the Supreme Court rejected the Republican push to require all ballots be received in Pennsylvania by Election Day. So tell us what this means for Pennsylvania and your reaction when you heard it.</s>SHAPIRO: Look, I'm pleased with the reaction because the voters here in Pennsylvania deserve clarity and confidence in an election that's already under way, where we've had more than a million Pennsylvanians already go to the polls and exercise their right to vote. Look, time and time again, the president and his enablers have tried to make it actually harder for people to vote here in Pennsylvania. And time and time again, I've told the people of Pennsylvania that I would secure and protect their vote and we've beaten them in court just to be able to do that. They haven't won a single case. And now, the rules are set. Voting is under way. We're deep in the fourth quarter. And I'm pleased that the people can now have confidence and trust the process going forward.</s>CAMEROTA: But, practically speaking, what does it mean? Because in Pennsylvania, you can't start counting the votes, as I understand it, until 7:00 A.M. on Election Day. And so, is it highly possible that we won't have an answer in Pennsylvania on election night?</s>SHAPIRO: Well, practically speaking, what this really means is essentially two things. Donald Trump and his enablers sued to try and do away with, eliminate the drop boxes where people are returning their ballots in seemingly record numbers. And they also tried to unwind a state supreme court decision that said, look, as long as your balance slot post marked by 8:00 P.M. on Election Day and received by friday at 5:00 P.M., you know, three days later, it would be counted. And the Supreme Court of the United States essentially reaffirmed that with their ruling. Look, we should want all votes to count, not fewer. But Donald Trump has recklessly been trying to sow doubt in this process and limit the voices of the people of Pennsylvania. And what this assures is that they'll count. As for when we'll know results, I think you're going to have a real good sense of where Pennsylvania is going in the early, early hours of Wednesday morning between the precinct votes and the overall trends of the votes by mail. I think there you're going to have a real good sense statewide. You won't have the precise number, certainly, for a few days, but I think you're going to have a real good sense of where things are going.</s>CAMEROTA: Let me redo a different opinion. This is your top election official, the secretary of the commonwealth, who said she thinks the overwhelming majority of Pennsylvania's votes will be counted by the Friday after Election Day. And, you know, I mean, I just -- this is critical, obviously, because if Pennsylvania is the deciding factor in the presidential race, as some pundits think it will be, that's a long time to wait.</s>SHAPIRO: Right. And I think, technically, she is correct. I mean, obviously, you will still have ballots coming in that were properly post marked in the days after the election. What I'm saying though is you will have a very good sense based on trends at the precincts and the trends on who's voting by mail. They'll have a develop good sense of who won Pennsylvania before Friday.</s>CAMEROTA: As I understand it, this presidential election will also be the first general election in Pennsylvania where there will be this many mail-in ballots, where there's been a rule change and where they will be allowed people no longer need to come up with an excuse or whatever, present an excuse for why they would use a mail-in ballot. So given that, how can you be confident today that it will go smoothly?</s>SHAPIRO: Yes. Let me break this down for you. There were about 6 million people who voted in the presidential election in 2016. Nearly 3 million, about 2.8 million Pennsylvanians have requested their ballots through the mail and more than a million have already returned those ballots. We're seeing a record level enthusiasm. And it's going smoothly. While there have been some clerical issues here and there, people are getting their ballots, they're filling them out quickly and returning them. They're dropping them off in drop boxes. I've said all along that I would go to court to secure and protect your vote to stop the attacks from Donald Trump and his enablers, and that's exactly what we've done. And what I keep telling folks is this, ignore the noise coming from the president. Ignore all the legal back and forth. And just make your plan to vote. And now more than ever, we've got opportunities to vote in Pennsylvania from home, in-person, and in other ways. And so I'm confident that this process is going to go forward. What people need to do right now is to make a plan to vote.</s>CAMEROTA: This Supreme Court decision last night was a 4-4 vote. Is it your sense that if and when Amy Coney Barrett is seated or if she had been seated that this would have gone differently?</s>SHAPIRO: Well, look, I took two things out of -- out of this ruling last night from the court. Number one, that the chief justice cares deeply about the credibility of this court and protecting the election and giving the American people confidence in the election process. I think that's a good thing. But I think it's also clear in a 4-4 case like this that would there be a Justice Barrett, that would be a pivotal vote, obviously. She would have to go one way or the other. Bottom line here is this. We are deep in the fourth quarter of this game. It would be really reckless and irresponsible for any court, let alone the Supreme Court of the United States, to change the rules of the game while people are already voting. Why should we change the rules and make it harder for people to participate in our democracy? We need all legal, eligible votes to count and every time I've gone to court, we've won to protect that right.</s>CAMEROTA: Attorney General Josh Shapiro, thank you very much for being on New Day.</s>SHAPIRO: Thank you. Stay safe.</s>CAMEROTA: You too.</s>BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, CNN Political Correspondent Abby Phillip. Abby, thank you so much for being with us. I just want to make sure people fully understand the immediate impact of this ruling and what it might mean for the presidential election and the road to 270. There is probably no state that is more important than Pennsylvania. It is the swingiest of swing states, as we like to say. And what this ruling does is it allows more mail-in ballots to be counted for longer. And we know that Democrats are voting by mail at way, way higher rates in Pennsylvania than Republicans. So, this has got to help Democrats, right?</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it absolutely does. I mean, I was getting messages from Democratic lawyers who were saying this is hugely significant for them. And a lot of it is just because of how critically important Pennsylvania is to Biden's chances of getting to 270. Pennsylvania is all most like a linchpin state, as you laid out, if people were watching earlier with Harry, it is a critically important linchpin state for both Biden and for Trump. And allowing more votes to be counted is going to give that state more leeway that they really are going to need. This is a state that has only recently had this robust mail-in voting program, they also have new voting machines this year. So a lot of election officials I've been speaking to all year have been very concerned about Pennsylvania and how they would be able to handle this influx. And I think this court ruling gives them some leeway, but it also settles the issue critically before Election Day. People that I'm speaking to say, once these issues are decided before Election Day, it gets harder to change them after the fact. Not impossible, but certainly harder.</s>CAMEROTA: Abby, let's talk about what we think is going to happen this Thursday night, and that is the next presidential debate. It looks like both candidates at the moment are going to show up. And there are these -- it will look and sound different than the last presidential debate, because the Debate Commission has decided to enforce these new rules whereby each candidate will get two minutes solid to answer a question without interruption. The other person's mic will be muted during those two minutes. President Trump's campaign doesn't like this rule but has said that they will abide, I guess, by it or at least show up. And, again, I mean, just why do you think that they wouldn't like the rule if they won't be interrupted for two minutes and they won't be able to interrupt? Why is that? Why would that be, you know, a sign of lack of impartiality, as they're saying?</s>PHILLIP: I mean, first of all, I feel like we have to say if you're working the refs in a situation like this, it's definitely a sign that you're coming into this situation from a place of weakness. And that's what the president and his campaign has been doing all along, criticizing the topics, criticizing this change, criticizing the format constantly, even well before the coronavirus. So there's that. But I also think the president wants to be able to do exactly what he did the last time at the last debate. And he also wants to -- I think it's one of the strategies here is to accuse the debate commission of favoring Biden so that if he doesn't perform as well, there's sort of a built-in excuse there. The problem is this actually might be somewhat beneficial to the president. It might be better for him to not actually interrupt as much because, as we saw after the first debate, viewers, particularly women in our focus groups and in others, in some of these polls afterwards, they really responded very negatively to the president's behavior. So while his instincts are do it again, obviously, voters don't agree and it would probably be better for him to just take a completely different strategy this time around. Though I think we can agree that that's probably unlikely.</s>BERMAN: All right. Maybe the biggest development over the last 24 hours in terms of the election and the public health of the nation is the president directly attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci, the most respected infectious disease doctor in the country. He's really taken it to a whole new level criticizing Dr. Fauci. This morning, we have a fresh response from the doctor. First, I want to give people a taste of what the president has said and then I'll play for you Dr. Fauci's response. First, let's listen to the president.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had and we have COVID. People are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people, these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci is a nice guy. He's been here for 500 years. He called every one of them wrong.</s>BERMAN: All right. And this just in is Anthony Fauci's rather ice cold response. Listen.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It's like in The Godfather, nothing personal, strictly business. As far as I'm concerned, you know, I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country. That's all I want to do.</s>BERMAN: And The Godfather, when you say it's strictly business, Abby, you're about to whack someone. So, Dr. Fauci here is saying, I'm just going to lay it out. This pandemic is bad. We are at a bad place in this country and not headed in the right direction. And if president doesn't like that, I don't care.</s>PHILLIP: Yes, he seems like he's had enough, frankly. I mean, what a waste of an opportunity on the president's part. Dr. Fauci spent so much of this pandemic really trying to not step on President Trump's toes, avoiding criticism of the president pretty religiously. And now he has no choice because he is being publicly attacked by the president and by his campaign to stick up for himself and stick up for science, frankly, because that's really what the president is attacking. He is lumping Fauci in with other scientists who he doesn't want to listen to. So, you know, this is such bad politics for this president at a time when he is not viewed as handling this pandemic well, and also at a time when he's trying to use Fauci's words and likeness in a campaign ad to his advantage. It makes absolutely no sense. And it also tees this up really easily for Joe Biden as we head into this debate. There's a reason the president doesn't want to talk about things other than foreign policy on Thursday, it's because he doesn't want to talk about the coronavirus. And now, there's going to be all of this fresh ammunition from Biden to basically say, yes, the president has explicitly said it, he doesn't want to listen to the scientists, he doesn't want to listen to Dr. Fauci.</s>BERMAN: Abby Phillip, as always, thank you very much for being with us. Joe Biden and Donald Trump face-off one last time, the final presidential debate CNN's special live coverage begins Thursday night at 7:00 P.M. Eastern. The numbers on the pandemic this morning getting much worse, they are alarming. CNN has just learned that all 62 residents of one Kansas nursing home have been infected. Ten of them have died. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us next.

U.S. Supreme Court Allows PA to Count Late-Arriving Ballots; Trump & Biden to Have Mics Muted During Parts of Final Debate; Coronavirus Cases Soar Across U.S. as Trump Attacks Fauci.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're learning from the Supreme Court ruling that mail-in ballots can be accepted in the crucial battleground state in Pennsylvania up to three days after the election.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This is not something the Trump campaign or Republicans wanted to see.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is going to need to be really patient on election night.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via phone): People are tired of COVID. People are saying just leave us alone.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Experts say the fall surge of coronavirus has arrived, and the numbers bear that out.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hospitals are filling up. The number of dead is increasing. This is a very, very dangerous time.</s>ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, October 20, 6 a.m. here in New York. We begin with two major breaking stories on the election. First, the U.S. Supreme Court rejecting a Republican attempt to block mail-in ballots received after election day in the battleground state of Pennsylvania. The high court was deadlocked, so Pennsylvania's Supreme Court ruling stands. It allows mail-in ballots to be counted, even if they are received within three days of election day, even if they do not have a legible postmark. The 4-4 decision underscores the decisive role that Judge Amy Coney Barrett could play in election disputes if Republicans succeed in confirming her next week. Also developing this morning, the Commission on Presidential Debates announcing that they will mute the candidates' microphones during parts of the Thursday's -- of Thursday's final presidential debate to limit interruptions. President Trump's campaign does not like this, but they say that he will still debate Joe Biden.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So all of this is happening in the shadow of a pandemic that could be hitting its darkest moments. More than 58,000 new coronavirus cases were reported overnight. That is a very high number Monday, when counts tend to be lower. Thirty-one states are seeing a rise in cases. All the states there in red or orange are seeing a rise. The beige states are static. Static at a dangerous level. Just look at that map. Fourteen states had seen record numbers of hospitalizations in the last week. More than 220,000 Americans have now lost their lives. This very well might be it. The exact moment that public health officials have warned about, the big cold weather wave. And it's at this exact moment where the president is denying the numbers, ignoring the trends, and instead attacking the doctors. A full day of attacks and insults on Dr. Anthony Fauci, probably the most respected authority on infectious diseases in the country. So the less significant question is, why is the president doing this? The more important question is, how does this help save lives? Public health expert William Haseltine equates it to attacking the fire department when the house is burning down. We have a ton of news this morning. We're going to start with the Supreme Court, a big election decision. CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us. The net effect here, the biggest of big pictures, Kristen, is this means that more ballots will be accepted by mail in Pennsylvania for longer.</s>KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John and Alisyn. That's absolutely right. I don't think we can stress enough just how big of a deal this is on so many levels. And let's start with what's in front of us. This could potentially affect thousands of votes in Pennsylvania, a critical swing state, a state Donald Trump won in 2016, a state he needs to win in 2020, and a state that both campaigns are laser-focused on. And Alisyn broke it down a little bit here. It essentially says that ballots can be counted up to three days after the election -- This is absentee ballots -- as long as they are postmarked on or before the election or if that postmark isn't legible. We've all been there. Get a letter in the mail, you can't really see what it says. Those ballots still have to be counted. This is a big win for Democrats. Republicans wanted absentee ballots to stop being counted after election day. Here's the secretary of state in Pennsylvania talking about it.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Pennsylvania voters deserve clarity and confidence in an election that's already under way here in Pennsylvania. And this ruling tonight by the Supreme Court of the United States gives them both. And it shuts down yet another attack by Donald Trump and his enablers on the laws of the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.</s>HOLMES: OK, so now let's talk about why this is important on other levels. And Alisyn, you touched on this, as well. We say a win for Democrats, but win is a little bit deceiving. This was a deadlock, and we'll show you the breakdown. Here you have liberals on one side with Chief Justice Roberts. And then you have conservatives, including two of Donald Trump's confirmed judges -- excuse me, justices, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch -- on the other side. This shows you just how critical that ninth seat is. Had Amy Coney Barrett already been confirmed, we would likely be talking about a very different outcome here. So, this is going to affect other litigations that's coming before the court if she is confirmed. It's also going to affect all litigation. Gives you an idea of what it's going to look like with the Supreme Court.</s>BERMAN: Yes. There are long-term implications, to be sure. Short-term in Pennsylvania, more Democrats are voting by mail. This will allow more ballots by mail. No question about that. That's why, in the short-term, it is a win for the Democrats. Kristen Holmes, thank you very much. Developing overnight, the Commission of Presidential Debates says it will mute microphones during parts of the final presidential debate to limit the interruptions. Obviously, everyone remembers that President Trump interrupted Joe Biden all over the place in the first debate. CNN's Boris Sanchez live at the White House with the latest. Boris, this has to do with the first answers that the candidates give in each section of the debate. It's not like they'll be muting willy- nilly during the hour and a half.</s>BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, John. It has to do with the first two minutes of a response from each candidate. Then they get about 15 minutes of open discussion. Of course, this is going to be the last chance for these two candidates to go head to head with such a huge audience, only two weeks out from election day. The Commission on Presidential Debates says that this tweak is really just a mechanism to allow the moderator to enforce the rules that these two candidates have already agreed to. Despite that, the Trump campaign is crying foul.</s>SANCHEZ (voice-over): After the first presidential debate quickly devolved into chaos.</s>TRUMP: Are you going to pack the court?</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Make sure you, in fact, let people know.</s>TRUMP: He doesn't want to answer the question.</s>BIDEN: Your senators. I'm not going to answer the question, because --</s>TRUMP: Why wouldn't you answer that question?</s>BIDEN: -- because the question is --</s>TRUMP: You want a lot of new Supreme Court justices.</s>BIDEN: The question is --</s>TRUMP: The radical left --</s>BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?</s>TRUMP: Listen.</s>SANCHEZ: The Commission on Presidential Debates announcing new rules to help prevent the candidates from interrupting one another during Thursday's event. Now, former Vice President Joe Biden and President Trump will have their microphones muted for portions of the debate. The commission says each candidate will have two minutes of uninterrupted time at the start of each 15-minute segment. During follow-up discussions, both microphones will be unmuted. In the final stretch to election day, Biden's off the campaign trail to prepare for the final presidential debate. Meantime, Trump traveling across Arizona, holding two rallies without social distancing and few masks. The president attacking the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, as coronavirus cases soar across most of the United States.</s>TRUMP: I don't want to hurt him. He's been there for about 350 years.</s>SANCHEZ: Trump's latest tirade against Fauci appeared to start during a phone call with campaign staffers Monday.</s>TRUMP (via phone): People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots. Every time he goes on television, there's always a bomb. But there's a bigger bomb if you fire him. But Fauci is a disaster.</s>SANCHEZ: This coming just one day after Fauci said he was not surprised the president was diagnosed with COVID-19.</s>DR. JONATHAN LAPOOK, CBS CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Were you surprised that President Trump got sick?</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Absolutely not. I was worried that he was going to get sick when I saw him in a completely precarious situation of crowded, no separation between people, and almost nobody wearing a mask.</s>SANCHEZ: During his rally, Trump also slammed Biden for trusting health experts like Fauci during a pandemic.</s>TRUMP (on camera): Biden wants to lock it down. He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci. And Dr. Fauci said, Don't put on masks. Don't put -- You see the thing. And now he says put on masks. And they say, You know, he's a wonderful guy. And he is a wonderful guy, I like him. He just happens to have a very bad arm.</s>SANCHEZ: Biden responding to Trump's attacks with a one-word tweet, quote, "Yes." The Democratic nominee later releasing a statement writing, "The American people are tired. They're tired of your lies about this virus. They're tired of watching more Americans die and more people lose their jobs because you refuse to take this pandemic seriously."</s>SANCHEZ: Now, the president is facing criticism for his statements about Dr. Anthony Fauci even from within his own party. Retiring Republican Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee putting out a statement saying that Fauci is, quote, "one of our country's most distinguished public servants." And these attacks on Fauci, Alisyn, they are just confounding, because not only is the president going after a very popular figure, but he's also, by doing so, acknowledging that he does not listen to the scientists and his own experts, while then attacking his opponent for supposedly being willing to do so. It's a Biden campaign ad that writes itself.</s>CAMEROTA: Boris, we're going to talk about the why behind all of those things. Thank you very much for setting it up for us. Meanwhile, the coronavirus pandemic is getting worse by the day here. Thirty-one states are seeing an increase in new cases over last week, as you can see on your screen. Fourteen states have hit record hospitalizations in the past week. And that includes Kansas, where CNN has just learned that all 62 residents of one nursing home had been infected. Ten have died. Utah also being hit hard. CNN's Martin Savidge joins us from Salt Lake City. What's the situation on the ground there, Martin?</s>MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Well, Utah continues to see new coronavirus cases at unprecedented levels in hospitals like the one we're at here and across this state are struggling to keep up and keep people alive. And Utah is not alone.</s>SAVIDGE (voice-over): Coronavirus cases spiking across the country. More than 58,000 new coronavirus cases reported on Monday. Thirty-one states seeing a rise in new cases over the past week.</s>MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH & POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: In many of our locations, up to half of these people have no in many of our locations, up to half of these people have no known source of exposure. That's how much virus is floating around in our communities right now.</s>SAVIDGE: The Midwest still struggling with the surge. Wisconsin reporting around 8,000 cases over the last three days. Fourteen states have seen peak hospitalizations over the last week. Several of those states in the Midwest. And in the northeast, New Jersey's governor encouraging residents not to travel after recent increases.</s>GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): New Jersey's come a long way, but our numbers are up. This is not just a northeast state thing, and it's not just a blue state thing. It's an American challenge at the moment, and it's real.</s>SAVIDGE: In Utah, the average daily case count has more than doubled since the summer months. The state reported nearly 1,200 new cases on Monday, with a test positivity rate at more than 15 percent. Dr. Emily Spivak is an associate professor of medicine at the University of Utah Health. She attributes the state's surge to a lack of leadership and complacency of residents.</s>DR. EMILY SPIVAK, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH HEALTH: I don't know what the end is. I mean, hopefully, it's when a vaccine, you know, in mid- to late 2021. But it's hard to be optimistic about people even taking a vaccine when they won't wear a mask. I mean, there's so much that could be done by our leaders, and they're just not doing it.</s>SAVIDGE: Hospitalization rates are also a big concern in Utah. The state has seen record highs over the past few days, and that is taking a toll on many in the state, including Laurie Terry's family. Terry's a 47-year-old mother and recently suffered a heart attack at home. With crucial minutes ticking by, doctors and nurses tried to transfer her to a different hospital with the right equipment. But could not find one with space. (on camera): So, to people who say, Look, this whole COVID thing say hoax or it's not that serious, it's life and death for your sister.</s>STEPHANIE DEER, LAURIE TERRY'S SISTER: My sister could lose her life right now today, because she was unable to access medical care in a timely manner.</s>SAVIDGE: She was eventually transferred to another hospital. Her sister is urging Americans to continue to take precautions seriously.</s>DEER: No sporting event or family party or dance party is worth losing somebody you love.</s>SAVIDGE: This past week has taught medical officials here that they soon will have to make those painful discussions that they have had to make in other states. In other words, that Utah doctors will have to start to decide who has access to life-saving medical care. Who may have to wait and who may not get it at all -- Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: We remember those life-and-death decisions being made by doctors this spring. Martin, thank you very much. As coronavirus rages across much of the country, why is President Trump attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci? Hear Dr. Fauci's response to the attacks next. and what the strategy is.

Coronavirus Cases Soar across U.S.; Supreme Court Allows Late- Arriving Ballots

CAMEROTA: OK, breaking overnight, the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that Pennsylvania can count mail-in ballots for up to three days after the election. Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the liberal wing, which made it a 4-4 decision, meaning the lower Pennsylvania court decision stands. But for how long? Joining us now is CNN contributor Steve Vladeck. He's a professor at the University of Texas School of Law. Professor, great to have you here. The timing here is so significant because, again, this was a 4-4 decision on the Supreme Court. This Thursday the Senate Judiciary Committee is voting on Judge Amy Coney Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court. Is there a way that this will be revisited in the next two weeks before the presidential election?</s>STEVE VLADECK, PROFESSOR OF LAW, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SCHOOL OF LAW: Yes, Alisyn, it's possible. I mean so what happened was the Supreme Court last night denied a pair of applications for stays of this decision by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. There's nothing that bars the same parties, the Republican Party of Pennsylvania, couple of Pennsylvania state legislators, from going back to the Supreme Court for another stay or, indeed, trying and get the Supreme Court to hear this case on the merits. I think the question is whether once Judge Barrett is confirmed, is the court going to want to touch this again? That is to say even though the four other conservative justices dissented from last night's orders, as we get closer and closer to the election, is the court really going to want to change the rules where absentee ballots that are mailed by Election Day but either have no legible postmark or no postmark are going to be counted for now, are they really going to change that, you know, the night before the election, the night after the election? It's possible, Alisyn. I think it's pretty unlikely, though.</s>CAMEROTA: And what's the significance of Chief Justice John Roberts having sided with the more progressive wing?</s>VLADECK: Yes, I mean I think once again, you know, we're seeing the chief justice in the role he played over and over again through the court's term last year and really up until Justice Ginsburg passed away last month where, you know, there are cases where he's crossing over, not necessarily because he agrees with the progressive justices, but because his institutional sensibilities really are guiding him, where he thinks that it's just a bad sign for the court to be intervening in a way that looks so transparently partisan. You know, in that respect, I think what's telling is less that the chief justice crossed over to create this 4-4 split, but that you had four dissenters, that you had four justices, you know, from the conservative side, folks who usually are the first to defend the autonomy of state courts, who, in this case, were willing to put aside the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's interpretation of its own election law.</s>CAMEROTA: And just explain that. Why wouldn't state -- a state court have the final word in a state election law?</s>VLADECK: Yes, so usually, Alisyn, of course it does. And here the -- the challengers, the Pennsylvania GOP and these two state legislators made an argument to the Supreme Court that what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court had done, by allowing these either un-postmarked or allegedly postmarked ballots to be counted for a couple days after Election Day, even if it's consistent with Pennsylvania law as interpreted by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court runs afoul of the federal Constitution. That say a remarkably broad argument that if accepted could have massive consequences not just for Pennsylvania, Alisyn, but across the landscape for all of these states trying to figure out exactly what they can and can't do to count as many legal ballots as possible, given the complications of COVID and just how many more Americans this year are voting remotely, are voting by mail, you know, how many more of these ballots are going to come in at the last minute.</s>CAMEROTA: And, Professor, just explain again, the Supreme Court sent this back. They basically said the lower -- the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision stands. So why isn't that good enough? When you say that this could come up again, Republicans could revisit it with the Supreme Court, why isn't that decision final?</s>VLADECK: Yes, I mean, Alisyn, again, it's the posture that matters. So this was not an appeal of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision. This was an application for an interim stay basically putting in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision on hold while the U.S. Supreme Court considers it. By denying the stay last night, the court has not precluded it going forward from either taking up a full appeal or even considering another application for a stay. I think the critical point is that the court has the power, Alisyn, to still come back and hear this case. But the closer and closer we get to Election Day, and with so many folks already voting, I think the more unlikely it is the justices are going to be inclined to potentially change the rules where Pennsylvania voters may think that as long as they mail their ballot by the day before Election Day, even Election Day itself, it's likely going to be counted. It would, I think, a huge power grab and a really disruptive move if the court were to change those rules, you know, between now and November 3rd.</s>CAMEROTA: Steve Vladeck, we really appreciate you understanding and explaining all of this for us. Thank you.</s>VLADECK: Great to be with you.</s>CAMEROTA: You too. Which states do Trump and Biden need to win individually to secure a victory? We're going to break down the road to 270 electoral votes, next.

New Polls on Presidential Race

BERMAN: All right, the big, breaking news from the Supreme Court overnight, a ruling that will allow more mail-in votes to be counted for longer in Pennsylvania, which might be the most critical of all the swing states in the country. So let's talk about what this means in the short-term. Let's talk about what it means in the race to 270 electoral votes. The man for that, CNN's Harry Enten. Harry, thank you very much for being with us. Just why are Democrats so excited about this ruling from a mathematical perspective?</s>HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, it's pretty simple. It's because if you look at the breakdown in the polls of who's going to be voting absentee versus those who are going to vote on Election Day in the state of Pennsylvania, you see this very well in the ABC News/"Washington Post" poll, look at this, among absentee voters, Joe Biden holds a nearly 75 point lead, while the president of the United States hold about a 20 point advantage among those who are voting on Election Day. So the more absentee ballots that are counted, the better it probably is for former Vice President Joe Biden. I should note that Pennsylvania is one of a number of the six closest swing states that Donald Trump won in 2016, where, in fact, you can get votes that come in after Election Day as long as they were sent by Election Day, Michigan and North Carolina being the other ones. So I think this just goes back to the point that we're going to be -- have to be very, very patient on election night and thereafter to understand who's going to be the next president of the United States because it's going to take a long time to count those votes.</s>BERMAN: Yes, legislators in Pennsylvania are blocking the ability to process these ballots that come in now before Election Day. They're creating a backlog there, making it a longer process to be sure. Let's talk about 270 electoral votes, Harry. Obviously, that's what a candidate needs to get to win the election. Where do things stand in the states that make the big difference?</s>ENTEN: Yes, I mean, look, here's the situation. You look again at those six closest swing states that President Trump won in 2016, and what you see is that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a lead in all of those particular swing states at this time. Obviously the leads are somewhat larger in those Midwestern battleground states, Pennsylvania and Michigan, Wisconsin leads of eight to nine points, while it's close in Florida, Arizona, and North Carolina. But, of course, the key there is the left side of your screen, those electoral votes are enough if you add them to the Clinton states for Joe Biden to get to 270 electoral votes.</s>BERMAN: That's right. Just to reemphasize that, all those states to the left, and we can put it back up so people can see, those states on the left, Joe Biden holds a pretty big lead. And that's all he need. That's all he needs to win the election. Now, if we expand the map, though, Harry, to get a better sense of where things stand, I'm sure the Trump campaign would like to pick off some states that Hillary Clinton won four years ago.</s>ENTEN: Yes, I mean, he'd like to do it. And take a look here. I think this sort of gives you an even better understanding of why this election is tilting towards former Vice President Joe Biden. In the Biden reaches, the Trump states that -- the states that Trump won by five to ten points in 2016, which you basically see as like an even race, right? Georgia plus one, Iowa, tied, Ohio plus two for Biden, Texas with Trump with a small lead of four points. But look at those Trump reaches, right, the states that Clinton won by three points or less in 2016. Former Vice President Joe Biden has an overwhelming advantage in pretty much all of them. The closest is Nevada, where Biden leads by only seven points and Maine where he leads by 15 points. So if you look at those reaches, it really gives you an understanding that Biden is much deeper into Trump territory than Trump is into Biden or Democratic territory.</s>BERMAN: Could we put that up full? Could we put that graphic up full so people can maybe see the smaller numbers? And there's one point I want to make there is all the states there on the right, Georgia, Iowa, Ohio, and Texas, where at least by our counts right now, the averages, Biden's either tied or ahead in three of them, he needs how many of those to win the election, Harry?</s>ENTEN: Zero. Zero. Zero, zero, zero.</s>BERMAN: And Pennsylvania, Harry, why is Pennsylvania so important in terms of a tipping point?</s>ENTEN: Pennsylvania's so important in terms of a tipping point because if you look at the states in which Biden has held a five-point lead or more in both September and October, if you look at this electoral map, what do you see? You see that in those particular states it adds up to 279 electoral votes. But if you took away Pennsylvania, then all of a sudden Biden would fall below 270 electoral votes. So, Pennsylvania, in my mind, is probably the most important swing state because it has 20 electoral votes and if it would go over into the Trump column, it probably would correlate very, very well with Trump winning the election.</s>BERMAN: Harold, as always, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Very insightful.</s>ENTEN: My pleasure.</s>BERMAN: All right, what are the Winter Olympics, France's election and the Ukraine electrical grid have in common? The Justice Department says all were targeted by Russian intelligence hackers. New details, next.

U.S. Charges 6 Russians for Cyberattacks.

CAMEROTA: Developing this morning, the Justice Department has charged six Russian military officers for allegedly carrying out some of the world's most destructive cyberattacks. CNN's Jessica Schneider is live in Washington with more. What have you learned, Jessica?</s>JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, these six Russian intelligence officers are from the same military unit investigators say were responsible for the interference back in 2016. So the message from prosecutors here is really clear, that the Russians are still at it. And, in fact, they're more aggressive than they were in 2016. So this indictment covers malware attacks around the world, including in Ukraine, where they knocked out the power grid, the 2017 French elections, where they hacked into e-mails, even the 2018 Olympic games in South Korea, where investigators say they interfered with the opening games. It also includes hacks into computer systems at two hospitals in west Pennsylvania. So prosecutors continue to crack down on these Russian-led interference efforts all around the globe while the president continues to down play it. Take a listen to what they said yesterday.</s>JOHN C. DEMERS, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: No country has weaponized its cyber capabilities as maliciously as irresponsibly as Russia, wantonly causing unprecedented collateral damage to pursue small, tactical advantages and fits of spite.</s>SCHNEIDER: Now, we have seen Russian intelligence officers indicted before. In fact, in 2018, the special counsel, Robert Mueller, indicted 12 GRU officers for conspiring to hack into the DNC, as well as the Clinton campaign. But, Alisyn, it's unlikely that any of these Russians will ever see a judge here in the U.S. That's because we have no extradition treaty with Russia. However, it could restrict their travel because if they do travel to another country, they could risk being turned in. Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: OK, good to know. Jessica, thank you very much for all of that reporting. And NEW DAY continues right now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mail-in ballots can be accepted in the crucial battleground state of Pennsylvania up to three days after the election.</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: If only the president had been encouraging, this could actually be helpful to the president.</s>JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Can't we all agree that we should have every eligible voter vote? Why is that controversial?</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Trump is attack Dr. Anthony Fauci and dismissing the pandemic as infections are rising in multiple states.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fauci's a nice guy. He's been here for 500 years. He called every one of them wrong.</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The president is referring to him as an idiot. It's obviously just totally ridiculous.</s>ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.</s>BERMAN: All right, welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. Two major breaking stories on the election. The U.S. Supreme Court just opened the door for more mail-in ballots to be counted in Pennsylvania for a longer period of time. This is a big deal for Democrats. And probably the most crucial of all swing states as Democrats are showing much greater enthusiasm for voting by mail. And now ballots will be counted if received up to three days after November 3rd. Now, this was a 4-4 decision at the Supreme Court, which means a state court ruling stands. And it also underscores the decisive role that Judge Amy Coney Barrett will play when she is confirmed. Also developing this morning, the commission on presidential debates announced they will mute candidate microphones during parts of Thursday's final presidential debate to limit interruptions. You will, of course, remember that President Trump just trod (ph) all upon the rules and the speaking time in the first debate. And now the Trump campaign says they don't like these new rules. Still, he will show up Thursday night.

Presidential Debate Commissions Adds Ability to Mute Microphones of Participants During Debate; Supreme Court Splits on Pennsylvania Vote Counting Decision; Coronavirus Cases Rising in States Across U.S.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Is not low at all. Thirty-one states are seeing a rise in cases this morning, all those states in red and orange there. Fourteen states have seen record numbers of hospitalizations in the last week. More than 220,000 Americans have died. The president is using his time now to attack Dr. Anthony Fauci, the most respected infectious disease doctor in the country. This morning Dr. Fauci has a new response to the president. We will play that for you in a moment. He's quoting "The Godfather." As for the president, it begs the question, why is he issuing these attacks. It makes you wonder whether he thinks his campaign sleeps with the fishes. We begin with the breaking news on the Supreme Court, what it means for Pennsylvania and the election. Joining us now, CNN's John Harwood and Abby Phillip. Abby, I want to start with you. Bigger picture, the Supreme Court ruling means in Pennsylvania more mail-in ballots will be counted for longer, for three days after November 3rd, after in- person Election Day is over. Why are Democrats this morning so excited about this ruling?</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, in some ways you can't extrapolate too much from this ruling, but the very individual significance for Pennsylvania is why Democrats are so happy about this ruling. Pennsylvania is such a critical state, particularly for Joe Biden. It makes his path to 270 much easier. But it's a state that Democrats were really worried about in terms of how quickly they'd be able to count ballots, in terms of how long people would have to submit their ballots. And so this legal war has been going on for so long. What I'm hearing is that people are saying that this is basically a win because, in large part, this issue is being settled. We are now 14 days, two weeks exactly, before Election Day. It is going to be very difficult for this to be reversed after the election, which is something that the White House and the president had signaled that he would attempt to do in a lot of these critical swing states. And Pennsylvania is a state they are new to this mail-in voting thing. So for voters who are doing this for the first time, who are not sure how to do it, who may get their ballots late because of mail delays, this is going to give them a lot more leeway. And of course, we know Democratic voters are much more likely to vote by mail than Republican voters, and that's a ratio than I think Democrats need to be in their favor. They need as those ballots, as many of them to be counted as possible.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And for the rest of America, John, it means it could be a long election night. It could be an election Friday. That's how long, at least the head of the election division in Pennsylvania, is saying that they can count for, and we should prepare that they will still be counting until then.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: In theory, that's correct. However, Joe Biden in Pennsylvania, which as Abby indicated, is ground zero for the Electoral College, it's what we think is most likely to be the tipping point state that decides who gets to 270 electoral votes. Joe Biden has had a lead that's pretty substantial in Pennsylvania. If you look at the polling averages, he's up more than six points there, he's over 50 percent. So the odds that the increment of vote that comes in after Election Day for those three days tipping the state is lower. It matters more if the race is razor thin. It's not right now, and we have got a new "New York Times" poll out this morning nationally showing Joe Biden holding a nine percentage point lead. So the larger Joe Biden's lead, the less this case matters. But as Abby noted about Amy Coney Barrett, this was a four-four decision in the court. The four hardcore conservatives on one side, the three liberals and Chief Justice John Roberts, who is conservative but is very concerned about the reputation of the court, that it not appear to be too partisan, he sided with the three liberals. That deadlocked the court and let the state Supreme Court ruling stand. If Amy Coney Barrett gets confirmed as we expect next week, that means that given the ideological predisposition she has and the way she ducked certain questions and said she wasn't necessarily going to recuse herself from election related cases, that suggests that she's going to tip that balance toward the conservatives. So if we end up with a closer election than we expect, in cases that matter, in states that matter, this could be very significant in terms of where the alignment of the court is headed.</s>BERMAN: John, you and Abby have both moderated presidential debates, so I know this news is of keen interest to both you. The debate commission says it will enforce rules -- by the way, these rules actually had been agreed to by both campaigns at the very beginning of this, which is that each candidate get two minutes of uninterrupted speaking time at the beginning of each segment to answer the initial questions. Those rules actually were in place. What's different now, Abby, is the debate commission says they will mute the microphone of the candidate not answering the initial question during that two- minute period. Why? As we know, President Trump trod all upon those two minutes. He didn't wait for Joe Biden to speak for the two full minutes before he interrupted. So now the debate commission will start figuring out a way to mute the microphone here. The Trump campaign saying it doesn't like it, but the president is still showing up, which shows you how much he needs this debate. What's the major takeaway, Abby?</s>PHILLIP: The major takeaway is that the president and his campaign, they want the fight with the debate commission, they want this counter narrative that this is all rigged against him. Even though, as you point out, this is not something that is counter to the rules. Actually, that is the rule. And it's that the president wanted to break the rules, so now he's upset because the mics will be muted. I don't think it will substantively change anything. The two candidates are going to be able to debate. They're going to be able to talk over each other or two each other after this two-minute period. But a key part of the strategy, and I think this is clearly a base strategy because I can't see this really working for many of these independent, undecided voters, women voters, it's a base strategy to work the refs and basically say this is all just a game rigged against me and rigged against us. That will only get the president so far. He, as you pointed out, needs this debate. He needs this debate to go well for him. And it actually would be, probably, in his best interest to, to some extent, play by the rules and not give off the same kind of energy that he did last time, which really a lot of voters did not respond well to.</s>CAMEROTA: John, we want to ask you about Dr. Fauci, because this war of words between President Trump -- really it's coming from President Trump. Dr. Fauci has just said and responded to the insults from President Trump and said it's nothing personal, it's just business. But of course, President Trump makes things personal. John likes it because it was a "Godfather" reference that Dr. Fauci was alluding to.</s>BERMAN: It's ice cold. You only pull out "The Godfather" when you mean business.</s>CAMEROTA: I understand all that, but I guess that the bigger question, John, is what does this mean for the health of the country? Is Dr. Fauci still able to be helpful? Is he still able to weigh in on any sort of plan if one were to exist? Or is he so sidelined that really it has just deteriorated into only a war of words?</s>HARWOOD: I think, Alisyn, he is still able to be helpful. The American people believe Tony Fauci much more than they believe President Trump. And what we see is even in the absence of government mandates, say a mask mandate, which Joe Biden has talked about encouraging in states across the country, people are scared and they're protecting themselves. It's not perfect. It's not 100 percent. But people recognize that cases are surging. What President Trump is doing, he's essentially given up on fighting the coronavirus and he's trying to justify that in the remaining days as he goes around to these mask-less rallies and gets applauded by people who laugh at his jokes about Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's trying to make himself feel better. He's very insecure, and he is trying to justify what he's done. It's not gaining him votes, just like, as Abby indicated, his wild debate strategy a couple weeks ago did not gain him votes. But he's doing what makes him feel good. Anthony Fauci, by standing up for public health, for views that are shared broadly in the American public, is still making a difference because his voice is believed where Donald Trump's is not.</s>BERMAN: John Harwood, Abby Phillip, thank you both very much. Just so people know what Dr. Fauci said, I just want to play you Dr. Fauci quoting "The Godfather" here in response to President Trump. Listen.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It's like in "The Godfather," nothing personal, strictly business.</s>FAUCI: As far as I'm concerned, I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country. That's all I want to do.</s>BERMAN: He says it's strictly business, nothing personal, which in "The Godfather," as you know, is what you say before you're about to whack somebody. Joining us now is Michael Osterholm, director the Center of Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. Also with us, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That's all politics. What matters now, friends, is where we are in this pandemic, 58,000 new cases reported on a Monday. That is the worst Monday we have had since July. And Professor Osterholm you're on the record saying that we are about to enter a six to 12 week period that could be the darkest of the pandemic. What has you so concerned?</s>DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: What we're seeing right now is that the general public has largely come to the point of saying we're done with this virus, even though the virus is not done with them. We're seeing transmission in our communities, in the home, in bars and restaurants, at family gatherings, funerals, weddings, you name it. And for the first time in many areas we're seeing half the cases having no recognized risk exposure, meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So it shows you how prevalent or how common this virus transmission is in our communities. We're not going to have vaccines in any meaningful way well into next year. And so you put that kind of situation with exposures and the fact that we're only going to see more transmission occur with indoor air, people inside, this is going to be a rough fall.</s>CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Sanjay, that's a really interesting point that 50 percent of the people have no known exposure because this is such a mysterious virus. The first thing we're going to do is say, where did you get it? Who gave it to you? And if you can't answer that question, that makes it really challenging. And then I know that you're also focused today on what we're seeing with hospitalizations.</s>SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, to that first point, we've never really had a meaningful contact tracing program in this country. In part it's very challenging if you have got 50,000 people becoming newly infected every day to contact trace that many people. So that's a challenge. But that's exactly right, you don't know where you got it from. People in that nursing home in Kansas, it's not probably clear exactly how the virus entered that nursing home and then spread to every resident. But that's a huge concern. Hospitalizations I think are a very practical concern. We talk about these dark days, as Dr. Osterholm has mentioned. But what does that mean for people? What is that going to look like? If you look at hospitalizations around the country, we know in 42 states they are increasing. In 14 states they are the highest they have been, and I think a dozen more states are getting close to that range. What is that going to mean as we go into these next few months? I know the hospitals where I work here in Atlanta, some are close to 80, 85 percent even occupied, and we haven't really started to have significant flu of coronavirus upticks in these places yet. That's going to happen. So are we going to run into a situation where we need field hospitals again? Are buildings, conference centers, are they going to be turned into emergency overflow areas? I don't know. That's the sort of planning that's going on right now, which is really sad. It's the same sort of discussion we had back in April, we're needing to have that discussion again.</s>BERMAN: Sanjay just asked what does it mean for us. And Professor Osterholm, my wife and I both listen to your podcast religiously, and you speak to people in ways that lets them know what they have to do, nuts and bolts of what they have to do. The director of the NIH, Francis Collins, just this morning, much like Dr. Anthony Fauci, who said we're going to have to bite the bullet on Thanksgiving, Dr. Francis Collins says he did bite the bullet on Thanksgiving. He says, quote, I had to have a family Zoom call with my family on Sunday and conclude that for the first time in 27 years there will be no family Thanksgiving. He says, it's just not safe. What's your feeling on this? What do people need to know about Thanksgiving?</s>OSTERHOLM: This is our COVID year. We have to keep remembering that. It's not going to be like last year, and hopefully it won't be like next year. Hopefully the vaccines will help make that a different situation. But if you really love someone, the last thing you're going to want to do this year is put them into harm's way by bringing the virus into the home. I have to tell you personally, I know of far too many situations where young, healthy adults, not realizing they were infected, came home for some kind of an event, and three weeks later mom or dad, or grandpa or grandma, or uncle Bill and aunt Sue were dead. That's the kind of thing that we have to help people understand the reality. And that's where leadership comes from. This isn't about the science anymore. We have enough in the science to say this virus is out there and it's moving. What we have to do is help people understand, how can you reduce your risk, but more importantly, how can you also help reduce the risk the others? And I think that's going to be a very key point of our messaging about the holidays over the weeks ahead.</s>CAMEROTA: Dr. Osterholm, as John knows, it's hard for me to accept that about Thanksgiving, just like every other American. I love it. It's my favorite meal of the year. And so are you saying that even if we had a lot of ventilation and kept the windows open or ate outside with a heater, that we wouldn't be able to see the grandparents?</s>OSTERHOLM: Transmission of this virus is all about breathing somebody else's air, that they in fact had the virus and exhaled that out. Far too often in home setting like this, particularly with colder weather, you just can't eliminate that risk. It's just too hard inside a home. So you have to then begin to look at yourself and say, what can I do? The one thing you can do is avoid the risk. And anything short of that is playing with fire. And I know that's hard for people to hear, but you know what's even harder is to find out that your mom or dad just died from coronavirus infection because of something you brought home. I have personally seen that happening. So I think that's the message we want to get across people. And again, I just emphasize, this is our COVID year. It's this year. OK? We have to sacrifice for this year. And then by next year, hopefully, these vaccines will get us out of this situation. But in the meantime, this is the kind of message we have to get across if we're, in fact, not to see this happen.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: He's really giving me some strong medicine there, isn't he? Dr. Osterholm, thank you. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as always, thank you very much.</s>OSTERHOLM: Thank you.</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right. Today is the date that Nancy Pelosi said will be a deadline to reach some kind of deal on a relief package, a stimulus package before the November 3rd final Election Day. We are going to ask a member of House leadership where the negotiations stand at this minute, next.

Hours to Go Before Deadline to Reach Stimulus Deal; Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC) is Interviewed About the Stimulus Deal.

CAMEROTA: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says today is the last possible day for a stimulus deal in order to have a vote happen before Election Day. So is it going to happen today? CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill with the latest. What is the latest, Manu?</s>MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, both sides are still skeptical that a deal can be reached that would allow a bill to be passed before the election. There are just so many differences the two sides have to narrow in order to get to that point. While they moved closer on the price tag, Nancy Pelosi has been pushing for $2.2 trillion now they're talking something in the $2 trillion range. There's a whole wide range of differences once you start getting into the details, whether it's for state and local governments, whether it's wide range tax provisions, whether it's money for testing, COVID testing, and contact tracing. Those are differences they tried to resolve over the last days. Behind the scenes, staff has been sitting down to resolve those issues. They've gotten close in some areas. Other areas, they have not. But Nancy Pelosi wants to a point where they believe they can have deal by the end of the night because it has to go through the legislative process and that's going to take in her view be about two weeks time, to get the bill drafted, to go to the relevant committees, to bring it to the floor, all before the election. And then you have the problem about the Senate Republicans who are in a different place than the Trump administration. Senate Republicans are moving to bring up a bill that has already failed a $500 billion plan. They believe $1.8 trillion to $2 trillion of the administration's proposal right now is just far too much. Even the number two Republican, Senate Minority Whip John Thune, told me yesterday that will probably be too much for Republicans anything around that $1.8 trillion price range. So, John, even if a deal is reached between Mnuchin and Pelosi, there's no guarantee that something can pass the Republican-controlled Senate -- John.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Manu Raju for us on Capitol Hill, thank you very much. So, where do the negotiations stand exactly? Let's get a view from the inside. We're joined now by House majority whip, Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn. Congressman, as always, thank you so much for being with us. You are the number three Democrat in the House. What have you heard most recently? Where do these talks stand at 8:21 a.m.?</s>REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me. First of all, I think that the talks are still ongoing. I think there's still an outside chance that something will get done before the elections. But the window is closing. I want to say how much I appreciate Nancy Pelosi. You know, people keep saying why can't she do a deal? The question got to be, what will be the deal? You know, I hear all this talk all the time telling me about the new deal or what the new deal did to bring us out of the depression. Well, let me tell you something, I represent counties where the new deal was a raw deal. When you put the new deal program together and then you send all the jobs to the South, CCC, WPA, and you put a little tag on them saying white-only, that may be a new deal for some people but it was a raw deal when it's white-only. So Nancy Pelosi is trying to stand up for people who are being left out of this deal. Here is an administration that's saying we're going to spend X number of dollars but nothing is going to state and locals. I got 35 small town mayors here in South Carolina that got small police officers, small fire departments, they're about to go under and we can't get this administration to give them any help. So this is not just about taking care of Donald Trump's people on Wall Street. One of the things in this deal that Nancy Pelosi has turned down was a slush fund for the secretary of the treasury. That's what's going on right now.</s>BERMAN: There was --</s>CLYBURN: I would ask the media to look at the Main Street project that we put in the CARES package and ask how much is being spent. That money is not being spent because they're put rules and regulations on it, to make it impossible for the small businesses to use the money. If the minimum amount of the law that you can get us $250,000, and all I want to do is put on an outside patio on my restaurant, I don't need to borrow $250,000 for that, $45,000 or $50,000 would be I need to do it.</s>BERMAN: Congressman?</s>CLYBURN: Yes?</s>BERMAN: On the subject of state and local aid, there had been movement from the administration side, from the Republican side, not as much as you want in terms of aid to cities and local governments, but they've come up from zero to a number where there would be at least some state and local aid. And that movement, that something rather than nothing, is an issue we heard about moments ago from former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang. So, listen to what Andrew Yang just said.</s>ANDREW YANG, FORMER 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mnuchin's last offer that we know of, $1.8 trillion, was really not that far from where Nancy's $2 trillion threshold was. There were some elements of the package they disagree on. But to the average American family that's hurting right now, we need this relief bill. Every economist agrees. We have to say yes, when you're in position to do so and put the pressure on Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans who are going to approve the stimulus deal because many of them are in very, very close races.</s>BERMAN: What's your message to Andrew Yang, Congressman?</s>CLYBURN: Well, ask him to look inside the package. He's still talking about $1.8 trillion -- $1.8 trillion going where, and to whom? You're still not talking about the inside of the package. You said he's come a little ways, or he's come -- he's doing some, some could be one or two, where there needs to be 15 or 20. So I don't go for all this top line stuff. Let's look inside the package.</s>BERMAN: Again, one or two, as you said -- and I don't know where we'll end up -- is still more than nothing. If they do not reach a deal today or even if they extend it to tomorrow, if they don't reach a deal now, when do you think Americans can expect any relief?</s>CLYBURN: Well, when we change this administration.</s>BERMAN: So that's January 20th, if you win. That's if you win, that's January 20th.</s>CLYBURN: Yes.</s>BERMAN: That's a long time. That's a long time from now, Congressman. So, you're saying if they don't reach a deal today --</s>CLYBURN: It was not --</s>BERMAN: -- Americans have to wait until January 20th?</s>CLYBURN: It's a long time from June 30th or July 1. So, it's a long time. But, look, I am sick and tired of people telling me, here is all you get, this or nothing. I think that we've got to negotiate. This whole notion is that it's a compromise when you come around to my way of thinking. And that's what the Republicans said time and time again. Yes, I'm going to compromise and it's a compromise when you come around to my way of thinking. We've got some heads too, we got brains, we can think. That's the problem here. Nobody wants to give us any credit for being able to negotiate. So Nancy Pelosi is not standing out there by herself. I'm behind her, and a lot of other people in the Congressional Black Caucus are behind her because we are not going to take something just to have something done. We want to get a fair shake out of this.</s>BERMAN: What are you hearing from members of the Democratic caucus? Your job is to count votes. I know there are some Democrats maybe in more vulnerable districts who are pushing for something maybe more quickly. What are you hearing from them?</s>CLYBURN: Well, that's the gamble they're taking. Because there are some Democrats in vulnerable positions, they'll accept anything. Well, that's not going to be the case here. We are going to do what's fair. That's what we want to see done. And we are not just going to take anything simply because it'll be something. No, that's not what we're going to do. We want to negotiate from a position of fairness and we want them to come up with a package that's fair to everybody. That's what these people are gambling on. They're gambling on us caving just to get something. Well, that's almost like having second class citizenship. You got citizenship all right, but it ain't first class citizenship.</s>BERMAN: Congressman Jim Clyburn, we appreciate your time. We appreciate you letting us know where you stand and where things stand this morning. We'll look forward to seeing you again soon.</s>CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.</s>BERMAN: Take care.</s>CLYBURN: So President Trump is telling America not to be afraid of coronavirus. A doctor in a community that voted for him tells us about the fear that he sees in his patients every day. That's next.

Coronavirus Cases Soar Across the U.S.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump is attacking the country's most trusted infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, despite signs that the U.S. is headed for more very dark days in the coronavirus outbreak. New coronavirus cases increasing in 31 states this morning, including Michigan. One emergency room doctor there wrote a "New York Times" op-ed that read in part, "now the patients I have come to know and love over the years are starting to feel the full impact of following a science denier down the primrose path. As the president mocked masks and flouted social distancing by holding packed campaign rallies, the virus took hold of my corner of America." Joining us now is that doctor, Rob Davidson. He's an emergency room physician in west Michigan and the executive director of the Committee to Protect Medicare. Doctor, thanks so much for being here. It's interesting to talk to you because you're not in a big city. You're in a more rural part of Michigan. And so can you just tell us what's happening this morning in your emergency room and how it differs from a week or two ago?</s>DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Yes, right now, in our emergency department, and in many places around rural Michigan, and really the rural Midwest, we're seeing cases go up. And the first wave of coronavirus cases, where Michigan was a hot spot, it was mostly in metro Detroit area, in the large population centers. And now we're seeing it creep into the rural areas, largely because people didn't see it in the first wave, they didn't understand why masks were important, why social distancing was important and they, frankly, were listening to a president where, in my county, folks voted for him with 70 percent of the vote. And we're seeing the impact of that now with just rising cases, hospitalizations going up. Many hospitals in west Michigan now showing that they are -- their COVID units are full. They're opening up new units. And we know what happens after the hospitalizations go up, more and more people begin to die from this disease. And that's what we're trying to avoid.</s>CAMEROTA: I mean your area is interesting because your county voted 70 percent, as you said, for President Trump. This is a particularly, I would assume, rude and painful awakening for some of your patients. And so what do they tell you when they come in and they're so sick?</s>DAVIDSON: Well, I think, honestly, people are just afraid. I mean it's a really profound thing when you go in a room and somebody literally feels like they can't breathe and their oxygen is low and they have a -- just a look in their eyes, I can -- I can think of a few people recently that, you know, just look at you and ask, am I going to be OK? And the problem is, you can't tell them that 100 percent. You can do everything you possibly can, but they might end up being one of those people who eventually succumb to this. So that's -- you know, that's the fear for us and the fear for my patients.</s>CAMEROTA: And are they surprised that this happened to them? I mean now that they -- now that it has knocked on their door and I know that you've said and written that there were a lot of people in the area not wearing masks, are they surprised by what's happening there?</s>DAVIDSON: Yes, I think a lot of people now have expressed maybe a bit of regret, although I just -- just a couple of days ago I saw a patient who came in for an unrelated complaint and I asked him to put a mask on and he said, oh, you mean for that flu? And I just shook my head and said, listen, this is serious and we just need to protect you and protect us. And eventually they put on the mask. But, you know, that -- that sentiment still pervades and President Trump, frankly, had a -- had a rally 30 minutes from my hospital just over the weekend, in Muskegon, Michigan, where thousands of people gathered, mostly without masks and, unfortunately, are listening to him and not listening to the experts like Dr. Fauci.</s>CAMEROTA: And when you saw that rally close to where you are in the emergency room, what did you think?</s>DAVIDSON: It's, frankly, very depressing. You know, you do everything you can, you try following all of the guidelines and try encouraging your patients and your staff and your friends and family to do the same. And then, in one event, you may undo all of that hard work. It remains to be seen. Two or three weeks down the road is when you see more cases from something like that and then a few weeks later the hospitalizations and the deaths. So, you know, we can hope. We hope those people go back and wear masks in their -- in their grocery stores and the businesses around their homes. But I don't -- I don't trust that that will necessarily happen and I'm very concerned.</s>CAMEROTA: Do you have enough doctors and nurses in your emergency room for whatever is going to happen over the next couple of weeks?</s>DAVIDSON: You know, we always do. I love emergency medicine. I've been doing it over 20 years. And the people that work in this field figure it out, you know, the MacGyver's of medicine in the hospital. So you do figure it out. You figure out a way to serve the people that you've been serving for, again, like I said, two decades. So, yes, I think we will. I, unfortunately, still am using an N-95 mask for an entire shift instead of with each patient, as they are intended to be used. So is my staff. And so we do take on some degree of risk when we do that, but that's what we signed up for. You know, we're going to be here no matter what, even if our president isn't there with us.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, I understand. I mean and that is, you know, laudable, obviously, that you are there to pick up the pieces for, you know, whatever happens. You've called President Trump anti-expert. And so when he says to people, as he did after he got sick, don't be afraid of COVID. Don't let it dominate your life. What's your message?</s>DAVIDSON: Well, I want people to at least respect what this virus can do. I don't want people to live in fear. And then I heard a segment you had earlier about people missing Thanksgiving. We're going to be doing that as well, missing Thanksgiving with family. But I think we just have to look at the prize at the end of this. The prize is less people dead. The prize is getting the economy open. And the way we do that is the simple measures, like wearing masks, like social distancing. It just doesn't seem that hard. I believe the science is in. We know the science. Now it's always about communications and behavior. And that's where the president could help us out a ton if he just behaved differently and communicated differently.</s>CAMEROTA: Dr. Rob Davidson, thank you for being here. Thank you for all you do. We'll, obviously, be watching very closely what happens in your area and all of the states that are spiking right now.</s>DAVIDSON: Thanks.</s>CAMEROTA: Voters in battleground Wisconsin get to cast their ballot in person starting today. So we'll take you there live to show you what the lines look like, next.

Early Voting Begins in Wisconsin

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, as we sit here this morning, there are two weeks left to cast your ballots. More than 28 million Americans across the country already have. Early voting begins today in Utah, Hawaii, and in Wisconsin, a crucial battleground state where, by the way, the number of new coronavirus cases just hit a record high. CNN's Omar Jimenez, live in Milwaukee, watching people show up to vote in person for the first time today. Omar, what do you see?</s>OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. Well, for starters, the duty of voting and the coronavirus precautions are maybe -- being balanced nowhere more in the country than here in Wisconsin. Some voters we spoke to say -- who were even lined up before the doors behind me even opened, by the way, say they made a decision to come out anyway because they weren't sure what would happen with the mail.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vote counting is the biggest aspect, knowing that your vote is counted, but it's also your duty, your civic duty. If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion, that's what America's about.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We voted early in the spring also. So we kind of missed all of that. I'm glad. The only difference now is that we've got the social distancing. We have the masks on.</s>JIMENEZ: And this, of course, is happening within the backdrop of the coronavirus pandemic. Back in the spring primary, on April 7th, there was concern about the combination of long voter lines potentially and the coronavirus pandemic. But for context, the positivity rate was less than 10 percent at that time, with a daily case count of a little over 150. Now that number is over 2,000. The positivity rate is over 20 percent. They've even had to open a field hospital to deal with the surge of hospitalizations. Yet people are still choosing to come out because they want their vote to count. Again, walking that tight rope maybe more than anywhere else in the country through a significant role that Wisconsin can play in the general election, combined with the significant impact of the pandemic here in Wisconsin. John.</s>BERMAN: All right, Omar, thank you very much. Keep us posted. So, Scott Atlas has become something of a medical Rasputin with the president and coronavirus, whispering in the president's ear things that run counter to science, that masks don't work, that tests don't help. Well, one Nobel Prize winning economist tried to convince Scott Atlas of the science. What happened? We'll ask him, next.

Fauci Quotes "The Godfather" in Response to Trump's Attacks

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Dr. Anthony Fauci responding to President Trump's repeated attacks by quoting from "The Godfather". The president called Fauci a disaster and an idiot for telling the truth about coronavirus. Here's Dr. Fauci's response.</s>ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It's like in the godfather, nothing personal, strictly business.</s>CAMEROTA: All right, joining us now, CNN's Political Director David Chalian and CNN political commentator and former Democratic presidential candidate, Andrew Yang. Great to see both of you. You know, David, there's a lot of question about what does President Trump get out of this? What does he hope for in the last two weeks of this election? What's his strategy? Isn't it sort of just the politics of personal grievance and vendetta? He's angry that Fauci went on "60 Minutes", he's angry that Fauci has been saying something different than what President Trump wants to hear. Is it more complicated than that?</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes -- no, I don't think it is, Alisyn. And I think sometimes we look for strategy where there is none, and we think that there must be something larger at play. We know -- I mean, the president has talked about for years his admiration for that "60 Minutes" spotlight. That -- you know, remember, he talked about being stable mates at one point when he was on "60 Minutes", and I think Putin was on "60 Minutes" or somebody else was on "60 Minutes" with him --</s>CAMEROTA: Putin, yes.</s>CHALIAN: And I mean, this is a slot in American television which we know this president consumes like no other, that is meaningful. And so Fauci gets this prominent spot, it is a positive look at Dr. Fauci, and that drives President Trump crazy. It drives him crazy that Fauci gets better press than he does. And I really think it's as simple as that because if you try to apply strategy for it, there is no answer to it, right? I mean, it just -- it's confounding because both the sort of personal insult angle of this to Dr. Fauci, and the complete dismissal of science, that's a one-two punch that has driven some voting blocs away from the president over this year during the course of this pandemic that he desperately needs for re-election. So, you know, suburbanites or independents or women or seniors, key groups that he needs to win back some portion of to be successful. It is exactly this kind of behavior that pushes them farther away from the president.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Andrew Yang, when you were running for president, one of your slogans was math, right? And now you have the president explicitly running against science. The negative ads here are almost farcical. These are exact statements that the president said. You know, imagine a negative ad that the Trump campaign would run that would say, Joe Biden believes in science or, you know, 220,000 Americans have died in this pandemic, who is Joe Biden listening to? Dr. Anthony Fauci.</s>CAMEROTA: Is mister calling?</s>BERMAN: These are the worst negative ads -- those will be the worst negative ads in all time. It's like a farcical attack, Andrew. How do you make sense of it?</s>ANDREW YANG, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You don't. And I agree with Dave where if you're trying to dig for a rationale where you just have President Trump venting his spleen to friendly crowds, you're going to be disappointed. I was just in Philadelphia this weekend, and there's a lot of energy on the Democratic side. I think the numbers actually tell a story that will map to the reality of election night. I know that there are many Democrats who were traumatized by 2016, but all of the numbers look very positive, not just nationwide, but Joe has a steady lead in many of the battleground states that Trump won in 2016. It's one reason why you're seeing Donald Trump travel to Georgia and states that you would think that would be safely in his camp. His campaign team knows that he's losing and they're grasping at straws at this point.</s>CAMEROTA: Not so fast, Andrew Yang. There are some data points on the other side, David, that maybe you could comment on. President Trump, for one, told his campaign staff that he's never felt better. That he would have said three weeks ago that he --</s>BERMAN: Is that a data point?</s>CAMEROTA: That -- yes, I'm using as a data point. I mean, it's what passes for data on -- it's what passes for data on the Trump side. That he has never felt -- he wouldn't have said this three weeks ago, but now he feels very confident, and here comes the data point. Three critical states, the Republicans are narrowing the voter registration gap in North Carolina, in Florida and Pennsylvania. And so why don't you just tell us where we really are at this point, David.</s>CHALIAN: Well, Alisyn, the last point there, as you noted, is an actual data point, and it's one that the Trump campaign points to over and over again. Their success at voter registration over the Democrats in some of these key states throughout the course of this year. The Democrats largely, you know, pandemic hit just halted that ground operation of getting voters registered. Republicans continued to do that work and the Trump campaign -- in the words of the Campaign Manager Bill Stepien says that newly registered voter they believe is to be -- is the easiest kind of voter to convert into an actual voter. They're brand new registered and they want to go and do -- go and vote. Now, I will say though, when you look at those voter registration statistics, there are also lots of people who for a long time in some of these places have called themselves Democrats but have been voting Republican and voted for Trump and voted for Romney, and they are now changing their voter registration to the Republican Party as well. So a little -- you've got to be a little careful about where that's taking place, those voter registration statistics. But it is a metric that the Trump campaign points to, that they believe is on their side and shows that this may be closer than polls suggest. But here's the reality of where we are. In the road to 270, Joe Biden has multiple paths and Donald Trump's path is almost singular and it's just incredibly narrow. And the key for Joe Biden is in that critical upper Midwest Rustbelt region, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. Remember, Hillary Clinton lost those to Donald Trump by a very small margin. Joe Biden is performing quite well in those states that prior to the '16 election were traditionally Democratic. And if he just is able to win those back, he's already where he needs to be in terms of winning the presidency. He doesn't even need to win all three of them back actually. So it is -- it is important to note what a defensive position Donald Trump is in two weeks out and where Joe Biden has opened multiple paths to the presidency.</s>BERMAN: It is worthy of note as Andrew Yang was saying, though there still is Democratic anxiety. Why? Well, because of 2016. It's understandable, and right now, the Biden campaign is trying to make sure the Democrats aren't complacent. Andrew, if I can, I want to ask about a different subject which is the relief package that is being discussed and still negotiated by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin. You have pushed the house speaker to make a deal, any deal, because you have argued that people need this money, any money. So, what is your argument today? What message do you want to send the speaker as she has set a deadline for today in striking some kind of deal to get a vote before election day?</s>YANG: Millions of American families are struggling right now, John. To make basic ends meet, to keep a roof over their head. And if we don't get a relief package out the door before the election, lame duck Congress is not going to pass it. We're going to have to wait until a new administration in February. So you're talking November, December, January, February, four months of increased deprivation and desperation among millions of American families. Mnuchin's last offer that we know of, $1.8 trillion was really not that far from where Nancy's $2 trillion threshold was. There were some elements of the package they disagree on, but to the average American family that's hurting right now, we need this relief bill, every economist agrees, we have to say yes when you're in a position to do so, and put the pressure on Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans who are going to approve the stimulus deal because many of them are in very close races. And the last thing we want to do is say to their people in their communities, hey, we've got a chance to help you, but we came up short. So, if Nancy says yes, Mitch will say yes and we still have a chance to keep this together for millions of American families through the Winter.</s>CAMEROTA: We'll see what happens today. Andrew Yang, David Chalian, thank you both very much.</s>CHALIAN: Thanks.</s>CAMEROTA: President Trump's projection play is changing. We have a must-see reality check next.

Investors Hold on to Hope for Coronavirus Stimulus Deal

BERMAN: You heard Andrew Yang talking about it moments ago. The clock is ticking for Democrats in the White House to reach a relief deal. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has set a deadline of today to make it happen before November 3rd. Chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now with the very latest. Romans.</s>CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a lot of stimulus deadline drama. Can they get a deal today and, you know, will Senate Republicans even go along if they do? U.S. stock futures trying to bounce back here because stocks fell yesterday after the Treasury Secretary and the house speaker failed to strike a deal. The two sides talking again today. John, there's almost universal agreement more stimulus is needed to help households and businesses, real people still battered by the pandemic. For months, they have quarreled over how much money to spend, how to spend it. Democrats passed 3.4 trillion in stimulus five long months ago. The president has said he wants to go big, but Senate Republicans are not on board with the size. Now, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell has made it very clear, more stimulus is needed to secure this recovery. But, you know, lawmakers may not feel a sense of urgency here to spend more because of the uneven nature of the recession. While hotels, airlines, restaurants and cruise lines are in absolute crisis, there are other parts of the economy that are recovering. The CEO of Best Western called Congress out of touch, quote, "there is so much pain and suffering, but they're numb to it because the stock market is doing well and unemployment is below 9 percent." By the way, the unemployment rate might actually under-represent how fragile the labor market is. Americans discouraged by the lack of jobs, worried about the virus or who needs to stay home to be care- givers, they have dropped out of the labor force. The unemployment rate doesn't factor them in. If you factor in those people and count them as unemployed, S&P Global says the unemployment rate would really be 10.3 percent last month. The jobless rate is not expected, Alisyn, to get back to pre-pandemic levels before the year 2024. The shock absorbers are gone in the form of stimulus. This is real tough news for a lot families. We'll see if they get a deal today.</s>CAMEROTA: That's such an important context, Christine, thank you very much. Well, it's one of President Trump's favorite political tricks, accusing his opponents of exactly what he's accused of. As the polls tighten and time runs out, the president is projecting more and more. CNN's John Avlon has our reality check. Hi, John.</s>JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Ali. President Trump is all over the map in these final days of the campaign, and I don't just mean his helter-skelter travel schedule to states he won last time. In place of a closing argument, the president is venting his spleen, refusing to denounce QAnon. Re-tweeting conspiracy theories about Osama Bin Laden and attacking Michigan's governor, knowing that she was in a target of an alleged kidnapping plot. He's musing on a grab- bag of grievances that are frankly aren't hard to follow.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Could you imagine if I lose? Suburban women, will you please like me? I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics. I'm not going to feel so good. He'll listen to the scientists. Go buy a dishwasher. I said what's wrong with this thing? It doesn't clean the dishes, right? Suburban women, please vote for me. I'm saving your house. Maybe I'll have to leave the country, I don't know.</s>AVLON: But there's one clear consistency, Trump's irresistible impulse to project on his opponents what he's been credibly accused of. So buckle up for five premo projections from the last days of the Trump campaign. Number one, corruption.</s>D. TRUMP: He's a criminal and he should be in jail. What he's done was a criminal enterprise. Joe Biden is a corrupt politician and the Biden family is a criminal enterprise.</s>AVLON: It's not normal to have an American president say his opponent should be in jail, but then it's not normal to have a president facing a boat-load of legal problems when he leaves office. From his taxes to multiple sexual assault allegations to ongoing accusations that he corruptly profited off the presidency. Number two, national security threat. Yes, that's what Trump tweeted Joe Biden is, but, of course, that's one of the many concerns about the reportedly $421 million Trump owes to we don't know who as well as why he refuses to confront Russian President Vladimir Putin about anything. But Trump keeps projecting on Biden and China.</s>D. TRUMP: If he ever won, China will own the United States, OK?</s>AVLON: Of course, it's the Trump family who's gotten Chinese trademarks in office. Trump who initially praised China's COVID response, and Trump who, according to John Bolton, asked China's president for help winning in 2020, and gave the OK to Uyghur concentration camps. Now, number three is the boldest better projection, calling Joe Biden a liar in at least nine new Facebook campaign ads. This is, of course, from the man who's been caught in more than 20,000 false and misleading statements. Number four, is that desperate old chestnut, the war on Christmas.</s>D. TRUMP: The Christmas season will be canceled.</s>AVLON: But when it comes to the war on Christmas, the call is coming from within the White House.</s>MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY: I'm working like an ass --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know --</s>M. TRUMP: My ass off on a Christmas stuff that, you know, who gives a -- about Christmas stuff and decorations? But --</s>AVLON: And here's number five.</s>D. TRUMP: People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people. These people that have gotten it wrong.</s>AVLON: Well, people are tired of listening to idiots who have gotten it wrong. But a quick glance at the comparative credibility of President Trump and Dr. Fauci on COVID response shows that the idiot in question is not the good doctor. And that's your reality check.</s>CAMEROTA: I almost forgot about the war on Christmas. Thank you for reminding me, John.</s>AVLON: I mean, how can you forget?</s>CAMEROTA: Thank you for all of that reality. OK, a Florida mayor is accusing his governor of using a herd immunity strategy against coronavirus. Is that true? What's his evidence? He joins us next.

Miami Mayor Accuses Florida Governor of Using Herd Immunity to Combat Virus.

BERMAN: The mayor of Miami Beach is accusing Florida Governor Ron DeSantis of adopting the controversial practice of herd immunity as a strategy to fight coronavirus. Joining me now is Dan Gelber, the mayor of Miami Beach. Mayor, thank you so much for being with us. Why do you think -- why are you accusing Governor DeSantis of adopting this idea of herd immunity?</s>MAYOR DAN GELBER, MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: Well, I don't think it's an accusation. I'm not sure he would deny it. You know, we haven't -- he hasn't had Dr. Fauci here. He has had Dr. Atlas. And in fact, he -- at the end of last month, the authors of what's called The Great Barrington Declaration, so-called Great Barrington Declarations, which makes the argument that we should allow herd immunity into -- not the vaccine type of herd immunity, but the herd immunity of letting it naturally go through the community. The day after he held other press conference with them, he essentially went -- he eliminated almost every one of the mandates and protections we had in our community, including by the way, you know, all of the requirements for individual mask mandates. We cannot do mask citations anymore because his order eliminated that. We can't -- we can't have any individual mask citations now for a person who is not wearing a mask. I think that's what he wants. I don't think it was an accusation. I think he probably would admit that.</s>BERMAN: So the idea of herd immunity is that you protect so-called vulnerable populations, but among younger people, you let the virus spread. You go about your daily business, you don't wear masks, you go to school, you go to work, and people get it and so say these theorists, and you develop an immunity. The problem or the question I have for you, in a place like Florida, if you adopted this, how would you protect the so-called vulnerable populations? Vulnerable populations include older Americans which was as we know, there's a huge senior population in Florida. I don't even know how it would work there, mayor.</s>GELBER: I'm not sure where it would work, to be very honest with you. The idea of The Great Barrington Declaration is to let those with quote, "minimal risk" build it up naturally while trying to protect others. The problem is those others are about a third of the population. And they don't just include the elderly, they include people with asthma, people who might have weight problems, they are people with diabetes, and those people aren't living in segregated communities, they're living in homes with younger people or older people. That's what -- that's how our society exists. So the problem is, you can't protect them. And our doctors because we're relying on the main stream of, you know, of doctors, they say that you can't protect those people, and that the -- if you allow the virus to surge through the community and say that it's only going to be in those who have, minimal -- quote, "minimal risk", you end up giving it to everybody else or too many of those --</s>BERMAN: Right --</s>GELBER: Other people which will require an incredible amount of hospital visits and deaths.</s>BERMAN: I want to give people a sense of where things stand in Florida right now, for looking at the seven-day ruling average of new cases there. It is ticking up slightly, but it isn't going up at a startlingly fast rate yet, nowhere near where it was. And hospitalizations in Florida have also more or less leveled off. We're now seeing the rise yet in Florida that we're seeing around the rest of the country. As you say, I know you're concerned that this trend may reverse itself now that mandatory masks orders can no longer be in place in Miami Beach. And I understand that the curfews that had been in place are also being lifted, which means what? Bars, night clubs, they can open up and stay open past midnight? Do I have that right? What's the impact going to be there?</s>GELBER: Yes, the county mayor had a curfew that we had been slowly loosening, it was at midnight. We also had social distancing requirements for restaurants and bars if they opened. And those now, at a certain level are gone. The governor, really what he did was he opened up everything and also stopped local government from trying to protect its own residents. And for me, remember, I get millions of people visiting my community. I'm not just protecting our residents. I'm -- you know, we're trying to protect people who are going back into the communities from which they came. So, you know, it's really become a problem. We are trying to literally protect our residents from their government at this point because we can't even impose a requirement that people get citations for not wearing a mask. And that's become a real problem. Because I worry about the uptick becoming a surge. We've had that already.</s>BERMAN: You've been there once, let's hope you don't head there again. Mayor Dan Gelber, as always, thank you for being with us this morning.</s>GELBER: Thank you, thanks, John.</s>BERMAN: NEW DAY continues right now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're learning from the Supreme Court ruling that mail-in ballots can be accepted in the crucial battleground state of Pennsylvania up to three days after the election.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not something the Trump campaign or the Republicans wanted to see.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is going to need to be really patient on election night.</s>D. TRUMP: People are tired of COVID. People are saying just leave us alone.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Experts say the Fall surge of coronavirus has arrived and the numbers bear that out.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hospitals are filling up, the number of dead is increasing. This is a very dangerous time.</s>CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, this is NEW DAY. We begin with two breaking stories on the election. The U.S. Supreme Court just allowed mail-in ballots to be counted in Pennsylvania for three days after election day. This is a big deal particularly for Democrats in that crucial swing state where more Democrats vote by mail. This was a 4-4 Supreme Court decision, which means that a lower state court ruling stands. It also underscores the decisive role that Judge Amy Coney Barrett will play if and when she is confirmed. Also, developing this morning, the Commission on Presidential Debates announced they will mute the candidates' microphones during part of Thursday's final presidential debate to limit interruptions. President Trump's campaign does not like that plan, but says he will still show up to debate Joe Biden.</s>BERMAN: This is happening as Dr. Peter Hotez told us a short time ago, we are entering what could be one of the darkest periods in U.S. history. More than 58,000 new cases of coronavirus were reported overnight, that's the highest number for a Monday since July. Mondays are normally lower, 58,000 is not low at all. Thirty one states are seeing a rise in cases this morning.

Stimulus Negotiations Continue; Melania Trump Still Recovering From COVID-19.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And special live coverage starts Thursday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. And our special coverage today continues now with Jake Tapper.</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We begin today with the 2020 lead. Two days ahead of the final Trump-Biden debate, and two weeks out from Election Day, President Trump doing all he can in this final sprint to rally his base. He's calling into his favorite television channel, continuing his reckless rally spree today in Erie, Pennsylvania, coronavirus pandemic be damned, and already downplaying expectations for the debate by attacking the moderator, the highly regarded Kristen Welker, complaining about the topics. Plus, the nonpartisan Debate Commission has just announced new enforcement rules of debate rules, saying they will mute candidate microphones during some portions of the debate. And, of course, looming over all of this is the deadly coronavirus pandemic, which is getting worse in the United States. Yesterday, the U.S. recorded the highest number of cases on a Monday since July 20, which was, of course, during the summer peak. It is a stunning 40 percent increase from the total just one week ago last Monday. And we have just learned that first lady Melania Trump will not travel to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with the president, as previously planned, to go to the rally tonight because of the lingering effects of her coronavirus infection. Let's start with CNN's Ryan Nobles at the White House for us. Ryan, what do we know about the first lady Melania Trump backing out of going to this rally?</s>RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, first of all, it was significant that Melania Trump was going to appear with the president tonight in Pennsylvania, because she's had a little to almost no contribution to his reelection campaign. She did give a speech during the Republican National Convention, but she hasn't participated in any rallies. So, the fact that she was going to be there tonight was a very big development for the Trump campaign. It's also significant the reason that she has decided not to travel with the president tonight, and that is because she is still experiencing some lingering symptoms related to her coronavirus infection, her staff telling us that she still has a lingering cough, and that she just does not feel well enough to travel. Now, the first lady has tested negative for the coronavirus. Her staff tells us that there's not a risk of her spreading the virus. So, this has more to do with just how she feels. But, Jake, the other thing that's important here is that, at this point, there are no plans for her to get out on the campaign trail in any foreseeable fashion in the future. And first ladies are usually among the most important surrogates for candidates, both incumbents and challengers, of course, Dr. Jill Biden on the campaign trail quite a bit for Joe Biden. That appears that that's just not going to be the case with Melania Trump in campaign 2020 -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: And, Ryan, it's pretty clear that the U.S. is now in a second wave of the pandemic, or maybe we never actually left the first wave. Either way, it's getting worse. And yet President Trump's closing message to the American people again is attacking Dr. Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert?</s>NOBLES: Yes, at the very least, it seems strange, Jake. We have seen this building over the past few months on the campaign trail. The president has been very critical of scientists in general that have been giving him advice about the coronavirus. He's never specifically attacked Dr. Fauci until the last few weeks or so. But I can tell you, being at his rallies, that his supporters will often catcall Dr. Fauci's name, tell President Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. And he's now seems to lean into this by attacking him directly, accusing him of being a Democrat, which he is not, accusing him of being friends with Governor Andrew Cuomo and somehow suggesting that that means that he is a political partisan. Dr. Fauci has tried not to take the bait. He stepped away from this. He said today that this is just about business and it's about the business of helping the American people get through this. But, at this point, he's become a political figure. And, Jake, we should point out, it's something that the president's campaign advisers wish that he would not do.</s>TAPPER: And it's also undermining a very important public health voice at a time that the public needs to hear from him. Ryan Nobles, thank you so much. Appreciate it. As Joe Biden prepares for his final debate with President Trump on Thursday, he's picking up two interesting endorsements, one from a former chairman of the Republican National Committee, and another from a notable military leader who has never before endorsed anyone for president. CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now live. And, Arlette, these are two notable endorsements for the Biden campaign, with just two weeks left to go.</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Jake. And these endorsements speak to the appeal, the wide appeal that Joe Biden has with voters. First off, you have Michael Steele, a former chairman of the Republican National Committee, voicing his support for the former vice president. He's joining that group The Lincoln Project, that group of Republicans who adamantly opposes and is quite vocal about their opposition to President Trump, Steele saying that he believes that Biden is someone who can heal some of the division in the country. And then there is also this op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" from retired Navy Admiral William McRaven. He is that former top special commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. He revealed in that op-ed that he has voted for Joe Biden. He said that he considers himself a Second Amendment, strong defense type of conservative, but he's also someone who believes that black lives matter and believes in climate change. And in his endorsement of Joe Biden, when he said he voted for him, he said that he believes that Biden can restore leadership on the national stage. And this just speaks to that breadth of appeal that the Biden campaign believes that the former vice president has. You saw over the course of the Democratic National Committee many Republicans coming out in support of him. And Biden often talks about how he will be president for all Americans, as he's trying to appeal to voters of every stripe.</s>TAPPER: Arlette, today, the Biden campaign is honing in on the Rust Belt as an area of the country where they hope Biden can win over Trump voters in this final push.</s>SAENZ: Yes, this is going to be a critical area that the Biden campaign is really honing in on. Today, you have Kamala Harris holding a virtual early vote rally, as in-person early voting is under way right now in the state of Wisconsin, Jill Biden is in Michigan on the grounds making four stops. And, tomorrow, we will see President Obama hitting the campaign trail in Pennsylvania, as Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania are really those key states that the Biden campaign feels that could be pivotal to their nomination and election. Those were states that President Trump flipped back in 2016 that they are devoting significant time and resources to have Biden flip back to the blue column in November -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: All right, we will see. Arlette Saenz, thanks so much. Admiral William McRaven, former commander of special operations, will be joining us live at 4:00 p.m. Eastern on THE LEAD to talk about this extraordinary endorsement of Joe Biden that he's made. In our money lead today, right now, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Stephen Mnuchin are speaking in a last-ditch effort to come to some sort of agreement on a stimulus bill, a relief package for citizens, just hours before the deadline. Millions of Americans have, needless to say, been waiting months for some additional coronavirus relief, including the eight million people who have entered poverty, and six million people who have applied for food stamps just since May, making this bipartisan agreement crucial for millions of Americans who cannot afford rent or tuition or other necessities. CNN's Julia Chatterley joins us now. Julia, does it look like a deal will be made today?</s>JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Got to define what we mean by deal here. There's still plenty of skepticism, Jake, about whether we can get a deal through Congress, even if those key negotiators kind of agree terms today. Remember, this is not a two-way fight. This is effectively a three-way fight. You have got the Democrats, you have got the White House, and then you have got Senate Republicans. Up until just under an hour ago, we had no real indication from the Senate leadership that they'd be willing to consider a bill at that kind of price tag, if we're talking somewhere between, what, $1.8 trillion and $2 trillion. Then Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said, look, if the House can clear this bill, if it has a promise from the president that he will sign it, they will at least put it on the floor and consider it. That's a huge change. He also, though, didn't say whether he was happy with the price tag. So, at that point, if it can clear the House, if we can get an agreement, if the president will agree to sign it, it comes down to a political calculation. What's the cost of signing up to a big splashy deal like this for Senate Republicans vs. the political cost of doing nothing? And that's the sad fact.</s>TAPPER: Do we know what might be in this bill, if there were to be a bill?</s>CHATTERLEY: Wow, there's general agreement that a further stimulus check is needed, that there needs to be a further bump up in unemployment benefits, more support for small businesses, too. But this is where it gets really complicated, because, when you're talking about a bill of this size, there's a whole load of issues within there. Take a look at some of these. Remember, earlier this week, Nancy Pelosi talking about the specific language on testing and tracing, state and local governments. It's been a problem for months. Simply, how is the money going to be spent? Does it have to be specific to COVID-related issues or, as the Democrats would like to see, is it allowed to be spent on other issues, other critical things, child care assistance, Earned Income Tax Credits? All of these threads need tying up if we can agree a deal here, and, of course, time is slipping away.</s>TAPPER: What happens if they don't come to an agreement?</s>CHATTERLEY: Great question. There is a window of opportunity, perhaps, depending on the election, to do something to negotiate afterwards. If we don't do that, Congress has to come back to the drawing table to keep the government funded, to prevent a shutdown before December the 11th. And then, if we don't get a deal before then, we're looking at post the inauguration next year. And, Jake, at that point, we will be talking about almost a year since the CARES Act was signed. It's unimaginable for the millions of people that are struggling here. And it's a lifeline they need desperately.</s>TAPPER: All right, Julia Chatterley, thank you so much. Coronavirus cases just reached a high that has not been seen in the United States in months. What could this mean for the weeks ahead? And what could it mean for your possible holiday plans? Plus, a cluster of states that Donald Trump won in 2016 now look to be on Joe Biden's path to victory. But we have been here before poll-wise -- what the path to 270 could look like for both Biden and Trump. Stay with us.

Interview With Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL).

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our money lead: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is projecting optimism, saying that, by the end of today -- quote -- "hopefully," Democrats and the Trump administration will have an agreement for another coronavirus relief package. The clock started on Sunday, when she said they had just 48 hours to reach an agreement if they wanted a bill passed by Election Day. Now she is downplaying, however, her own deadline.</s>REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Let me just say, it isn't that this day was the day that we would have a deal. It was a day where we would have our terms on the table to be able to go the next step. And, again, but legislation takes a long time.</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Here to discuss, the Senate minority whip and Democratic Senator of Illinois Dick Durbin. Senator Durbin, thanks for joining us. So you're on the Senate Appropriations Committee. Do you know what Pelosi and Mnuchin have agreed to so far? Do you think a deal is going to happen?</s>SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): No, there's no update that's been given to us. But it was encouraging for the speaker to say that, finally, the actual terms are on the table. Jake, we face a serious epidemic. And it may get worse. We face a serious state of our economy, and many people are suffering. We need a serious bipartisan bill. And, at some point, Senator McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, has to get off the sidelines and actually sit down to the table with Democrats. It's not just a radical idea.</s>TAPPER: McConnell said that he would put any deal reached by Pelosi and Mnuchin, he would put it on the Senate floor, though he would not say that -- whether or not he's comfortable with a price tag of around $2 trillion. We know he isn't. Do you think, if Mnuchin and Pelosi arrived at a compromise, and the Democrats in the House passed it, and it was on the Senate floor, do you think it would pass? Would there be enough votes for it?</s>DURBIN: Well, we have 47. Democrats. It usually takes 60 votes to do something significant. So we need 13 Republicans for that to happen; 20 of the 53 Republicans have said they're not going to vote for a penny. They don't want to do anything to stimulate the economy or to deal with the coronavirus epidemic we're facing. So it remains to be seen whether there are enough votes, even if all the Democrats support it.</s>TAPPER: President Trump continues to claim that he wants a bigger stimulus package than even Pelosi is proposing. I mean, if Republicans won't even agree to $2 trillion, how would more get passed? I mean, I don't even understand this Kabuki of him saying he wants a bigger package, when McConnell is out there saying he doesn't want anything more than $500 billion.</s>DURBIN: Jake, this is a classic good cop/bad cop on the Republican side. You have McConnell saying he's going to be a budget hawk and he doesn't have the votes. You have the president saying, well, the Democrats are lowballing it, we need a much bigger number. I don't know who's in charge over there. It seems like there's real confusion.</s>TAPPER: You're also on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is poised to vote on Judge Amy Coney Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court in just two days. Groups such as NARAL and Demand Justice have called for the replacement of Senator Dianne Feinstein, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, after they didn't think she was strong enough against Barrett's nomination and she praised Senator Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the committee, how he handled the hearings. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer just said that he had a long and serious talk with Feinstein. What was that talk about? And what do you think? Should Feinstein be replaced?</s>DURBIN: Well, let me get down to the bottom line here. We have a job to do. The Republicans are rushing through this Supreme Court nominee -- nomination of Amy Coney Barrett and want to get it done before November 3, because, on November 10, the future the Affordable Care Act will be decided in an oral argument in the Supreme Court. They want their judge on the court in time to eliminate the Affordable Care Act. The president has told us that. That, to me, is the overriding issue here. I'm not privy to the conversation between Senator Schumer and Senator Feinstein. All I can tell you is, we have work to do this week to let the American people know what's at stake with this nominee.</s>TAPPER: Do you think she didn't do a good enough job?</s>DURBIN: Well, I think the ending was not clear. We had made it clear throughout the entire hearing that this was the wrong thing to do, the wrong time to do it, and the wrong person at this moment in history. We're in the midst of a pandemic. The idea of putting someone on the court who's going to eliminate health insurance for 23 million Americans, and really lessen the coverage that the rest of us enjoy in our health insurance, it's exactly the wrong time. That point was made clearly, despite the last few minutes of videotape of that video hearing.</s>TAPPER: So it sounds like you took issue with her praising of Graham and giving him a hug. But, beyond that, do you think that she did not lead an effective enough charge against Barrett's, as the presiding Democrat in the hearing?</s>DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, I thought her opening statement and questions were good throughout. I sat next to her throughout the hearing. I stayed in the hearing during the entire four days. I think the Democrats really presented a powerful case. The shot at the end may have been misleading as to what the rest of the committee felt about this. But we are determined to handle this responsibly. It's a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land, health insurance for millions of Americans at stake. The stakes just couldn't be higher.</s>TAPPER: If Barrett's confirmed, as it looks like will happen, and Democrats win back the Senate -- we don't know if that's going to happen or not -- but, hypothetically, if that were to happen, would you vote to add to the number of justices on the Supreme Court?</s>DURBIN: I haven't made up my mind on that issue. It's a serious one, very serious. I think the American people want balance on our federal courts. And for the last three-and-a-half years, they have watched Senator McConnell load these courts up with right-wing ideologues. We need real balance if we want to get real justice.</s>TAPPER: All right, Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, thank you so much for your time, sir. Good to see you again.</s>DURBIN: Thank you.</s>TAPPER: More than 32 million ballots already in two weeks before Election Day, but expect results in 14 days. Just how long America may need to wait, that's next.

Early Voting Surges; Road to Victory?

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: The path to the White House almost certainly goes through Florida, or does it? Either way, that's where Senator Kamala Harris campaign yesterday. And President Trump has made four visits in the last two weeks. So, who has the advantage? And is there any way for a campaign to pull out a win without that crucial battleground state? CNN's resident forecaster, Harry Enten, joins me live. Harry, I want to take a closer look at Florida in a minute. But give us a reality check right now. We're exactly two weeks from the election. What does the road to 270 electoral votes look like?</s>HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, I mean, look at this particular point, if you look at the CNN ratings, what you see is that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a clear advantage, right? What you see is, at this point, we're giving him 290 to Trump's 163 with a bunch of battleground states that we haven't allocated yet, such as Florida. But at this particular point, what I would say is that Biden has the advantage. Of course, let's see where we are in about two weeks.</s>TAPPER: So let's dive into Florida now. Who has the advantage there? That's Trump's new home state. He changed his residence from New York to Florida. And how are the crucial voting blocs in that state leaning?</s>ENTEN: Right. So, if you look at the polls, it's a pretty tight race at this particular point, right? You see that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a nominal advantage, up by three points. And part of that, if you look at the crucial groups, right, if you think about Florida, I think you think about two groups. You think about senior citizens, and you think about Hispanic voters. And what you see right now, among those groups, compared to 2016, is that Joe Biden's doing better among those voters, senior citizens. He's tied in the polls right now. Trump was leading among that group by nine points in the final 2016 polls. But Joe Biden's doing a little bit worse among Hispanic voters. His lead is 14 points to Hillary Clinton's lead in the 2016 polls, when it was about 21 points. So those are sort of, say, offsetting each other. But here's the key thing about Florida and why it's so important, right? Look at this. In the election results since 1928, the state of Florida has voted with the winner all but twice in 1960 in 1992. So, if you win Florida, you're probably going to win the White House.</s>TAPPER: Can either candidate win, practically speaking, without Florida?</s>ENTEN: Yes, I think it's much easier for former Vice President Joe Biden to win without Florida, right? If he just wins in those Upper Midwest states that Donald Trump won, say, four years ago, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, and you add those to the Clinton states, he gets to 278 electoral votes. That's a pretty clear path. I can paint many other maps. For President Trump, it's much more difficult, but it's possible, right? Even if he were to lose Florida, but then say when all the other states he won in 2016, he would get to 277 electoral votes. It's possible, but that really is the only path he could do it with, Jake.</s>TAPPER: And we know Joe Biden is focused on winning back those three Rust Belt states, Pennsylvania at the heart of it. The Supreme Court there, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, and then also the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania can count ballots received up to three days after Election Day. How might that change the ground game there?</s>ENTEN: Yes, what we should point out is that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a clear lead in Pennsylvania at this point, if you look at the average of polls, right? It's seven points. He's over 50 percent. But, more than that, if you dig deep and look at the difference between those who say they're going to vote via absentee ballot vs. voting on Election Day, you see those voting via absentee overwhelmingly favor Joe Biden by nearly 75 points, vs. those on Election Day, who favor Trump by a little over 20 points. So, the more absentees that are counted, the better it is for Biden.</s>TAPPER: But that's a good heads-up for people, because if President Trump comes out on election night, and says, look, we have won Pennsylvania based on Election Day voting alone, that's not the whole picture. And that's misleading. And no network should announce that that's based in reality at all. Those absentee ballots, vote by mail, very significant. Harry Enten, thank you so much. Appreciate it. In our Making It Count series, long lines starting early this morning in Wisconsin, as that critical swing state kicks off its first day of in-person voting. The election is exactly two weeks from today. And early voter turnout is already smashing records. More than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide. But, as CNN's Abby Phillip reports for us now, legal battles in some key battleground states are far from over.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't procrastinate, and vote early.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just two weeks to go, and it appears that's the way many Americans are feeling about this 2020 election.</s>LATINA WILLIAMS, WISCONSIN VOTER: I would rather get it done -- done and over with, and do it early. That way, I know I have voted.</s>PHILLIP: So far, more than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide, whether by mail or in-person. On the first day of in-person voting in Wisconsin, voters braving hours-long lines and rising COVID numbers.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion. That's what America is about.</s>PHILLIP: Huge lines snaking around entire buildings or down city blocks becoming a familiar sight all over the country, many voters even lining up before sunrise, rain or shine. Pending legal challenges in several states, including some battleground states, are far from over.</s>DAN PETRY, WISCONSIN VOTER: It's one of the most important elections, obviously. There's so much riding on the line.</s>PHILLIP: In Pennsylvania, the Supreme Court ruling on Monday the state can count mail-in ballots if they're sent in by Election Day and received within three days, even if they do not have a legible postmark, something the president is already attacking.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. What kind of a thing? So what does that mean?</s>QUESTION: John Roberts.</s>TRUMP: We're going to wait -- we're going to wait until after November 3 and start announcing states? That's crazy.</s>PHILLIP: Pennsylvania state law says that the counting of absentee ballots cannot begin until Election Day, which, combined with the court ruling allowing ballots to be received three days after Election Day, means we may not know the results of the presidential race for several days after November 3.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You won't have the precise number, certainly, for a few days. But I think you're going to have a real good sense of where things are going.</s>PHILLIP: Meanwhile, in North Carolina, the state elections board now extending the deadline to accept mail-in ballots postmarked by Election Day through November 12, more than a week after the election. But the legal battle is still ongoing. As of this morning, in North Carolina, 1.9 million ballots have been cast. That represents 25 percent of the state's registered voters. And in Florida, voters are turning out in droves on the first day of early in-person voting. The state says more than 366,000 Floridians cast votes Monday. By this morning, Florida was just shy of three million ballots cast overall. The same time four years ago, Florida had just over 1.6 million total ballots cast.</s>TRACY ALSTON-BUNN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: If you're not going to vote, don't complain for the next four years. That's the way I look at it.</s>PHILLIP: So, a lot of voters are telling us that they're concerned about the mail system. But check out what's going on in Michigan. Today, we learned that Michigan has already received three million requests for mail-in ballots. Half of those have already been received two weeks before Election Day. By comparison, in all of 2016's presidential election, 4.8 million voters in that state voted. The governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, saying that they are on track to have more people vote this year than ever before in the state's history -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: That's fantastic news. Whoever you're going to vote for, make sure you vote. Abby Phillip, thanks so much. Muted microphone are not, the attack lines President Trump seems to be warming up for Thursday's debate, that's next. Stay with us.

Can Hospitals Handle COVID-19 Surge?; Interview With Former U.S. Special Operations Commander Admiral William McRaven

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: But she canceled those plans. Her office is saying she's still recovering from her own battle with the virus. As CNN's Ryan Nobles reports, expect to see a playbook from the Trump campaign that you have definitely seen before.</s>RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With two weeks left for voters to cast their ballots, President Trump is presenting a familiar closing argument, attacking his enemies and firing up the base.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know. I don't see you people. I don't think you're going to want to give up those guns. I don't think so.</s>TRUMP: That's not -- that's for Arizona.</s>NOBLES: While the president has spent a lot of time hammering Democrats, his current target is a member of his own administration, someone polls show most Americans admire, Dr. Anthony Fauci.</s>TRUMP: The only thing I say is, he's a little bit sometimes not a team player. But he is a Democrat. And I think that he's just fine.</s>NOBLES: Fauci has become a target for Trump, as he attempts to tap into the fatigue of many Americans struggling to deal with coronavirus restrictions. The doctor responded to Trump's attacks with a reference to "The Godfather."</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: It's like in "The Godfather," nothing personal, strictly business.</s>FAUCI: As far as I'm concerned, you know, I just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country.</s>NOBLES: Sources tell CNN that Trump has not met with Fauci in person since the middle of August and has little to no contact with the White House Coronavirus Task Force at all, instead putting his faith in the hands of controversial Dr. Scott Atlas, who the president praised this morning</s>TRUMP: Scott Atlas is fantastic, but they go after him so much.</s>NOBLES: Campaign advisers worry attacking Fauci only serves to remind voters of the pandemic, which is seeing spikes in almost every state. Tonight, Trump travels to Erie, Pennsylvania, home to one of three swing counties in the crucial state that voted for Obama in 2012 and went for Trump in 2016.</s>TRUMP: We are going to win four more years in that beautiful White House.</s>NOBLES: These big rallies may be the only card the campaign has left to play. His team hopes these events will reignite the magic from four years ago, an adviser admitting, with candidate Trump, a dramatic course correction is unlikely. "It's the last two it. F it," the adviser tells CNN.</s>NOBLES: And President Trump scheduled to leave from the White House in about an hour or so to Erie, Pennsylvania, which is a battleground inside the battleground of Pennsylvania. And Melania Trump, the first lady, will not be alongside him, Jake, her staff telling us that she is still dealing with lingering complications from the coronavirus pandemic. She really hasn't been involved that much in the campaign, and her advisers telling our Kate Bennett that we shouldn't expect to see her on the campaign trail at all before Election Day -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: We hope she feels better. Ryan Nobles, thanks so much. A high-profile endorsement for Joe Biden. Retired Navy Admiral William McRaven, the former commander of the U.S. Special Operations Command, says Biden will make America lead again, McRaven most famous for overseeing some of the most important operations in U.S. history, such as the raid that killed OBL, the capture of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, and the rescue of Captain Phillips from Somali pirates. Admiral McRaven joins us now. Admiral, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, most importantly, for your nearly four decades of service to this nation. I want to start with your op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" today. You write -- quote -- "I am a pro-life, pro-Second Amendment, small government, strong defense, and a national-anthem-standing conservative. But I also believe that black lives matter, that the dreamers deserve a path to citizenship, that diversity and inclusion are essential to our national success, that education is a great equalizer, that climate change is real, and that the First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy. "Most important, I believe that America must lead in the world with courage, conviction, and a sense of honor and humility" -- unquote. Was it a difficult decision to announce that you're voting for Biden? This is the first time you have ever publicly weighed in on a presidential race?</s>ADM. WILLIAM MCRAVEN (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Well, it was a difficult decision, Jake, to announce that I was voting. Obviously, as a senior retired military officer, these are challenging times. And there's a little bit of an unwritten rule that the -- that senior officers don't come out and endorse a candidate. However, I felt that the direction of the country was heading in such a bad direction, that we needed a new leadership, and that Joe Biden will be a much, much better leader than Donald Trump. The one thing I know about leadership, Jake, is that, if you are going to lead in challenging times, you have to build alliances, you have to build coalitions, you have to have friends and allies. And we have got a lot of challenges ahead of us. And we have got a rising China. We have got an aggressive Russia. We have got a North Korea with ICBMs that may be nuclear-tipped soon. And, of course, we have the second wave of the pandemic. You cannot confront those challenges unless you have alliances. And this president has proven he doesn't want alliances domestically, and he doesn't want alliances in internationally. I mean, he's pulled out of the TPP. He is pulled out of the JCPOA, the Iranian nuclear agreement. He has pulled out of everything from UNESCO to the Open Skies to the World Health Organization. Now, not all those organizations and all those treaties are great, but what they allow us to do is to maintain and strengthen alliances. So, when you have these challenges, you have folks around you that can help you solve them.</s>TAPPER: Admiral, you say that the world no longer looks up to America because they have seen -- quote -- "our dismissiveness, our lack of respect, and our transactional approach to global issues" -- unquote. You really think the world doesn't look up to us at all? And, also, if that's true, the election of Joe Biden will change that?</s>MCRAVEN: I do think the election of Joe Biden will change that. In fact, I think it can almost change within five minutes. The fact of the matter is, Donald Trump has been dismissive. You saw very early on in his presidency how he treated the NATO members. Now, I got it. Has NATO been living up to its 2 percent of GDP to support the NATO alliance? No, but there are better ways to handle it. And you don't, you don't disrespect some of our colleagues and our allies that have been around with us for 75 years. That's not the way to strengthen the alliance. That's not the way to push back against Russia. You look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Here was an opportunity to bring in 40 percent of the GDP, in terms of our allies, to be able to leverage that against China. And Trump elected not to do that. So, yes, what I know will happen under Biden is that he will be respectful of our allies, he will build those alliances, he will strengthen those coalitions, and that's exactly what we're going to need going forward.</s>TAPPER: Last week -- I have to ask you about this. I'm sorry. But, last week, President Trump twice retweeted this deranged conspiracy theory about SEAL Team Six, the bin Laden raid. The tweet alleged that Biden and Obama may have had SEAL Team Six killed, that Obama -- I'm sorry -- that Osama bin Laden was still alive, the man killed in the raid was actually about a double. I mean, it's insane. I -- I'm sorry I even mentioned what the conspiracy theory is, because it's just so nuts and ludicrous. Trump was asked about this at the town hall with Savannah Guthrie. He said, hey, it's just a retweet. People can decide for themselves. He doesn't take a position. You oversaw the operation. What was your reaction to all this?</s>MCRAVEN: Well, to your point, Jake, I didn't even think it was worth addressing, because it was so crazy. It was a little bit like denying the moon landing. And when things are that off in left field, it doesn't gain anything by giving it legs and keeping the story going. I was glad to see that Rob O'Neill, the seal that, in fact, shot bin Laden, who I know is a Trump supporter, made it very clear to the president that, no, we did in fact, get bin Laden. And, oh, by the way, not only do we get it, but the men that went on the mission risked their lives and the future of their family to go get bin Laden. And by being so dismissive, by promoting this crazy conspiracy theory, you really disrespected those guys that went on the mission, and, frankly, I'd offer a lot of the people within the Special Operations and the conventional forces that have been fighting this hard war for a long time.</s>TAPPER: Throughout your career, and even after returning to civilian life, you seemed resolutely apolitical. But something changed for you in 2018, it seems. You have become a critic of President Trump, not often, but on occasion. In 2018, you wrote of Trump -- quote -- "Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage, and, worst of all, divided us as a nation." Trump dismissed your comments. He claimed you're a Hillary Clinton fan. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. And I suspect he will paint you again as a partisan Democrat, even though you have acknowledged all the conservative views you hold. What -- let me give you an opportunity to give a preemptive defense of yourself from whatever he says.</s>MCRAVEN: Yes. This actually started, Jake, when the president came out and said that the media was the enemy of the American people. And the fact of the matter is, I have fought the enemy of the American people, and it is not the media. And, in that comment, I said that this attack on the media was the worst attack on democracy in my lifetime. And people said, how could that be the case? Well, when you go after the First Amendment, of which you are sworn to uphold, and you begin to attack the media, and then, as you have seen his administration go on, he goes after peaceful rallies and those sorts of things, this is not the way to be a president. So, it started with me addressing the School of Journalism at the University of Texas about the role of the media. And so I have taken the opportunity, when I think Trump has stepped out of line -- I have not been, to your point, kind of consistently attacking him. There have been opportunities where I think he has been pretty brazen and off the mark. The one with the media being the enemy of the American people was the first one. The other one was when he went after John Brennan. And that is the quote that you're referring to. I have also gone after him when we pulled out of Syria or when he announced that we were pulling out of Syria, without ever coordinating or talking to the leadership in the military. And then, when he fired Joe Maguire, Admiral Joe Maguire, as the director of national intelligence, all these, I thought, were egregious acts that warranted a response on my part.</s>TAPPER: Do you worry about what a second Trump term would look like?</s>MCRAVEN: I do. And, again, let me be clear here. I have a lot of friends and family members that are Trump supporters. They are great and wonderful people that I have known most of my life. I don't agree with their positions, but I certainly don't want to paint the Trump supporters in a bad light--</s>TAPPER: Sure.</s>MCRAVEN: -- because, like I said, I have got friends and family members that are Trump supporters. My issue with this particular "Wall Street Journal" article was about the future. This is about the future. It is the challenges that we are going to face in the future. What if China invades Taiwan? What if Russia moves into Estonia? What if North Korea launches an ICBM? And what happens when the second wave of the coronavirus comes? Do we have a leader who knows how to build alliances, who knows how to build coalitions, who can bring the country together to tackle these tough challenges? President Trump has shown that he cannot do that. He can't do it domestically. He hasn't worked with the governors on everything from COVID to the wildfires. And he can't do it internationally. We have seen that both on COVID and on most of the major national security issues. So, this is my concern moving forward. If Trump is reelected, I don't know how we are going to tackle these very, very difficult challenges, in light of the fact that he doesn't want to have relationships with our allies internationally, and, frankly, with his partners domestically.</s>TAPPER: Retired Admiral William McRaven, former commander of Special Ops and author of "Sea Stories: My Life in Special Operations." It's a great book. People should check it out. Thanks so much for your time, sir. And, as always, thank you so much for your four decades of service. We appreciate it.</s>MCRAVEN: My pleasure. Thanks, Jake.</s>TAPPER: Endorsements help, but it is the votes that matter. Coming up, the key battleground states that will likely decide who wins the election in two weeks. But, first, a former FDA chief says the U.S. is just one week away from -- quote -- "rapid acceleration" in coronavirus cases. Can hospitals handle that surge that seems to be coming? A reality check with CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta next.

Former FDA Commissioner: U.S. is One Week Away from a "Rapid Acceleration" in COVID Cases; Dozens of Volunteers to Be Deliberately Infected with Coronavirus as Part of New U.K. Study.

TAPPER: President Trump complains that CNN talks too much about coronavirus. Well, guess what? That's because 220,000 Americans are dead from it. And in our health lead today, the former FDA commissioner is warning that the U.S. is one week away from rapid acceleration in coronavirus cases. This as nearly 60,000 new cases were reported just yesterday. That's the highest number of new cases for a Monday since July. And it's a harrowing reminder that we are still very much in the thick of this pandemic regardless of the president's behavior. CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now. Sanjay, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former FDA under President Trump, he's warning of a rapid acceleration, yet we still don't hear any evidence of any new plan from the White House for more widespread testing, for some sort of contact tracing plan so that the virus can be identified and isolated and contained. Do you see any evidence of the leadership on this from the White House that the nation needs in order to get these numbers down?</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No. I mean, there is no plan, Jake, right now. In fact, the most that you hear about things that they are not going to do, right? Absolutely not going to mandate masks. We're not going to back into any circuit breaker lockdown mode. So it's not a plan of what we are going to do. It's what we're not. You know, you talk about the case numbers. I know why Scott Gottlieb is saying this, because if you look at what is happening in the European Union versus the United States, remember, we were one to two weeks behind Italy -- I'm going back to April time frame now. Well, the European Union was able to bring their numbers down a period of time and now, they've shot back up and again, we are one to two weeks behind them, which is why I think Scott and many others think there is a rapid acceleration over the next week. The point I want to make, this comes up a lot. We are doing more testing. That's why there's more cases. You've heard that over and over again. That's not the case. What you find, what is a truer sort of more consistent measure is hospitalizations and hospitalizations are going up, Jake, across the country. This is probably what concerns me the most. I don't know if we have this map. But you can see we are starting to go above capacity or at capacity or even above what we normally are already this time of year and we're not really into flu season yet. So as you've been some of the other reporters have been talking about today, you're already getting situations now in many of these cities they are starting to look around and say what are we going to do if we run out of hospital beds? This is not a theoretical concern, Jake, and I think this hospitalization issue is what concerns people the most in the medical world over the next several weeks.</s>TAPPER: And as we adapt to this new normal, which is just horrible thing to have to say, there are concerns, obviously, about what we do with our kids because our kids cannot learn from home for the next five years. It just can't be done. A classroom simulation found that open windows and glass desk shields reduced the spread of coronavirus theoretically. If classrooms were to implement these precautions, as well as masks and shields, do you think it would be safe to turn to all in-person learning?</s>GUPTA: I think you'd have to add in a couple of more things there, you know, in the simulations that they look at. They were pretty lenient in terms of the square footage that they were making available for these classrooms. You got a lot of space in between these kids, so when I go to schools and we are doing stories on how schools are starting to reopen, it was the square footage that ended up being one of the limiting steps. So, square footage and testing. Some sort of regular testing, I think, would be important as well. Then I think you could start thinking about a plan to get kids back to school. I thought was very interesting when you looked at these simulations and some of the applied not to schools but large office buildings as well, and a lot of it had to do with the ventilation. You know, the simple idea of being able to open windows and make it less likely to breathe someone's air essentially. The more that you can do that, the less likely people are to get infected. So someone who is sitting in the middle, for example, of a lot of students had greater risk. Someone who was off to the side, two to three times less risk of contracting the virus. Again, these were computer models but this seems to hold up in real life scenarios as well. I don't know if we have a picture of a call center, because this was a call center where you had a lot of people within a room and you can sort of see in blue where people are most likely to get infected. This is one room. The blue is people who got infected. They're pretty much clustered on one side. Jake, again, if you think about this virus like an aerosol, like camp fire smoke, it may drift into a particular area based on, you know, currents in the room or something like that. You can see it's not spread out equally. It's spread in that one area. So, if you can address that issue, I think it could be much safer. Safe -- to say it's safe totally? I think it's hard to do.</s>TAPPER: Yeah.</s>GUPTA: Contagious virus is still out there, but you can make it a lot safer.</s>TAPPER: The director of the National Institutes for Health says that the White House Coronavirus Task Force still meets regularly but not with President Trump. I mean, should the president be in those meetings?</s>GUPTA: He should absolutely be in these meetings. This is the worst public health crisis in a hundred years. We are a country that represents 20 percent of infections in deaths. I mean, it's awful, obviously. So this is a huge issue. He is spending most of the time, according to task force members I've spoken with, with Dr. Scott Atlas who is basically mirroring it sounds like the president's own beliefs. Dr. Atlas doesn't seem to be giving the president any guidance as much as reinforcing what the president already believes. It used to be Ambassador Birx, Dr. Deborah Birx, who used to be mostly in the Oval Office. That's largely not happening anymore, according to the people I've been talking to. It's mostly Dr. Scott Atlas now. So, they have their own meeting. They even call it the doctor's meeting, the coronavirus task force. It's on their own. They are still doing it but who knows if they are actually being heard.</s>TAPPER: And we should point out, Dr. Scott Atlas is a neuroradiologist. He is not an expert on infectious diseases and this is what President Trump likes to do. He likes to get these people like oral surgeons who are not experts on infectious disease attest to either how great he is or how the pandemic should be treated, how the federal response should be. And these are not experts in infectious disease. You can't -- you wouldn't go see a podiatrist for a toothache.</s>GUPTA: No. You know, what's amazing to me he is just reinforcing what the president already believes. That's the striking thing and that's become a pattern, that has become really clear -- not only with Dr. Scott Atlas but some of the president's own personal doctors. Regardless, Dr. Scott Atlas might be a very smart guy but what he is doing right now is reinforcing these beliefs. He tweets out masks, no. That tweet has to be taken down. He advocates for herd communities everybody in the health community thinks is a terrible and disastrous and deadly idea. So, it's not guidance. It's just reinforcement.</s>GUPTA: Yeah. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks.</s>TAPPER: Yeah, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks. Dozens of people in the United Kingdom will be deliberately affected with coronavirus and that's our world lead. Why? Well, they are volunteers. They're part of the world's first human challenge trial for COVID. Researchers hope the trial will accelerate the development of vaccines that could end the pandemic. That's the hope. CNN's Phil Black is in London with the details. And, Phil, how does this trial work and who are these volunteers?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jake, here at London's World Free Hospital is the U.K.'s only category three bio containment facility, the only site in the country deemed suitable for hosting these human challenge trials. And it is here that young, healthy volunteers age 18 to 30. Some just came to help, others very likely came for some extra money will receive candidate vaccines and then later be locked in and deliberately dosed with the coronavirus, so that the efficacy of the vaccines can be tested. The idea is this will be an efficient tool for helping to quickly identify the most promising vaccine that are being developed around the world. But there are critics. Those who say that because these challenge trials must rely on young healthy volunteers, the data does not represent those who are most at risk from the serious consequences of COVID-19. Those who most desperately need protection from an effective COVID-19 vaccine, and there's the ethically delicate issue of risks. It cannot be avoided, no matter how young and healthy the volunteers are, because there is no proven guaranteed cure for COVID-19 -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: What an incredibly altruistic thing to volunteer for. Phil Black, thank you so much. To help ease the economic pain of this pandemic, what Republicans and Democrats are saying that they want a stimulus deal the sticking points holding up an agreement. That's next.

Study Shows Anti-Inflammatory Drug Can Reduce Risk of Death in Critically ill COVID Patients

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's not as reliable as a clinical trial but it certainly does sort of, you know, keep some hope that maybe this drug is useful in certain patients.</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Elizabeth, another new study finds that blood from the very sickest COVID patients might make for the most effective convalescent plasma treatment. Why?</s>COHEN: You know what, because the sicker you get, the strongest response your body has to form. If you're very sick, your immune system really has to kick into gear. So, let's take a look at what this study found, because this has been a big question, is convalescent plasma the same from person to person? And it's apparently not. They looked at 126 survivors. 80 percent had detectible, neutralizing antibodies. That's what they're looking for. So, in other words, 20 percent weren't even useful, and that's good to know. The patients who were the best were older, male and hospitalized. And that is sort of a way of saying the patients who were the best were the ones that were the most sick.</s>TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much. Important information. What if you wake up on November 4th with no clear winner in the presidential contest and a category 5 tweet storm from President Trump? Well, the man who run political advertising for Twitter says it might be time to mute the President for democracy's sake. We'll talk to him. Plus, breaking news in our POLITICS LEAD. Stick around and I'll tell you what it is.

Government Officials Alarmed Over White House Push for Pentagon Deal Worth Billions; Former Twitter Executive Says It's Time for Social Media Platforms to Mute Trump

TAPPER: And we are back with some breaking news in our POLITICS LEAD. I'm bringing you now some brand-new reporting. Senior administration officials are sounding the alarm, warning of something that one official calls really fishy and what could be, quote, the biggest handoff of economic power to a single entity in history. Senior administration officials tell me that they're concerned about White House pressure on the Pentagon to lease premium real estate on spectrum for the lucrative 5G market to lease it to one company, a company that prominent Republicans and supporters of President Trump are investors in. It's a company called Rivada. Tens of billions of dollars are at stake here. Now 5G, or fifth generation, is the next generation of wireless network technology. It's expected to change how we live and work enabling a whole new wave of tech products. Sources tell me that the White House pressure campaign to fast track a contract for Rivada without a competitive process intensified in September. They say it's been led by White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows after President Trump began pushing Meadows to tell the Pentagon to ask Rivada to submit a request for proposal or RFP, under special rules to lease the Pentagon's own 350 megahertz of mid-band spectrum and bypass the normal competitive bidding process. The Pentagon leaders I'm told are resisting the move that's according to sources. Pentagon lawyers argue that the Department of Defense has no authority to issue an RFP for such a deal, and officials are unsure if Rivada even has the ability or technology to do what the company claims it will be able to do. The Pentagon offered no comment as to my reporting. President Trump's interest in helping this private company, Rivada, is said to have been encouraged by Fox commentator and Republican strategist, Karl Rove. He's a lobbyist for and investor in Rivada. Officials at the Federal Communications Commission have also been stunned by the White House push sources tell me. Rivada's 5G competitors include more traditional telecommunications companies such as AT&T, which we should point out is CNN's parent company. Though no one has affiliated with this story has communicated with anyone at AT&T about this story in any way. When asked for a comment today, a White House official told CNN that Chief of Staff Meadow's goal is to get 5G deployed across the company as quickly and safely as possible. The official says that Meadows is agnostic about which company should ultimately get the contract though he believes Rivada has made a compelling argument. And a Rivada spokesman and Karl Rove both deny that they want a non- competitive deal in any way. Yet informed sources tell me that the White House is unquestionably pressuring the Pentagon. And as one official puts it, if this contract is rewarded to Rivada it would be a, quote, absolute gold mine. Craig Moffett, a highly regarded Wall Street analyst of the telecommunication sector concluded in an October 7th research paper, quote, the whole story smacks of cronyism at best and reeks of the swamp at worst. In our TECH LEAD today, as President Trump continues to use Twitter as a platform for all sorts of wild charges and deranged conspiracy theories and misinformation about voting, one former tech executive is now saying that it's time for social media platforms to mute President Trump, at least until after the election. Joining us now is that former tech exec, Peter Greenberger. Peter launched and led the political advertising teams at both Google and Twitter. Peter, good to see you. You say Trump should be silenced on both platforms until the winner in the election is determined. That's a pretty extreme suggestion. Why do you say that?</s>PETER GREENBERGER, FOUNDER AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF FOREST HILLS CONSULTING: I agree it is, and I think extreme times demand extreme suggestions. I did not come to this opinion lightly. I believe that the tech companies generally have a responsibility to be neutral. And I think in the case of Twitter specifically it has been a great champion of the democratization of information as well as a strong supporter of freedom of expression. However, we are in a unique and I believe a fraught moment in time with a President who is desperate and he's facing a very difficult situation. I think the time is to mute the President temporarily while votes are being cast right now and until the winner is decided.</s>TAPPER: Well, in President Trump's defense, he's been pushing all sorts of lies and smears and conspiracy theories for years. I mean, literally he burst on the political scene pushing the racist birther theory, and the American people elected him. It was an electoral vote victory, not a popular vote, but he still won fair and square. Does that not suggest a certain desire of the American people to allow this kind of unhinged nonsense and lies and deranged conspiracy theories, that they're OK with it?</s>GREENBERGER: As you say, he has been a reckless poster on Twitter, on Facebook and other platforms for the duration of his time in office and ever since he came down the golden escalator at Trump Tower. However, it's time, I believe, that Twitter hold him accountable to the same terms and conditions, the same rules of the road that every other user is subject to. They have been wrestling with and tying themselves up in pretzels in an effort to try to accommodate the President. They've taken some very laudable steps. They were the first in fact to start labeling some of the President's tweets as misinformation. I think that was a very bold important move. And they've gone so far as starting today I believe turning some of the key engagement features of the platform in order to slow down the cause of this misinformation. However, what I would note is that according to a recent Harvard study, the leading promulgaters of false information come from the top. It's coming from Donald Trump and some of the leading conservative voices that echo him. It that's where the misinformation's coming from, this is not coming from the dark corners of the dark web or social media, it's coming from the President.</s>TAPPER: Right.</s>GREENBERGER: So perhaps it's time to mute the President while we're in this sensitive time.</s>TAPPER: Well, President Trump has warned tech companies he is, quote, watching them very closely during this election cycle as his administration has proposed stripping platforms of long held legal protections such as liability for the content they publish or block. If Trump wins re-election, do you think he might actually go forward with that?</s>GREENBERGER: This is not an easy decision, and I agree. Certainly, the eyes of Trump are on Twitter as are his most ardent supporters, but so is history. I think this is something that Twitter and some of the other platforms have to consider very carefully. This is again not a normal situation. They have terms and conditions in place. This is a reason they have these terms and conditions, so they can make these calls more easily.</s>TAPPER: All right, Peter Greenberger, big tech exec from Google and Twitter in the past. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. Coming up next, the states shaping up to be big wins for both President Trump and Joe Biden as this 2020 race hits the final two- week stretch. Stay with us.

Biden Looks to Rust Belt to Rebuild Blue Wall.

TAPPER: With just two weeks to go until election day, what do the paths -- the possible paths to victory look like for Joe Biden or for President Trump? Joining me now to discuss, CNN's Gloria Borger and "The Atlantic's" Ron Brownstein. Ron, let me start with you, you call winning back the Rust Belt, Joe Biden's shortest path to the White House, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. But President Trump I have to say he was trailing in polls in those same three states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan in 2016 and he ended up winning all three. Now, he was within the margin of error and he is today within the margin of error, but do you think Biden can win those states back?</s>RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean I think that is the core proposition of the Biden candidacy from the beginning. I mean Joe Biden is a 77-year-old white guy who has been around Washington for 50 years. He's not the candidate you would draw up in the lab to try solve the Democrats' problem of increasing turnout among younger, black and Hispanic voters across Sun Belt whether it's North Carolina or Arizona or Texas. I mean the core selling proposition of Biden from the beginning was that he was someone who could bring back white voters, particularly white voters without a college education, in the three critical Rust Belt states that Trump dislodged from the blue wall, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Whatever else you can say about Joe Biden, he has not lost sight of that mission. I mean he has treated it as Ford would say, as job one. A lot of advertising, a lot of tine there, a lot of time in front of blue-collar audiences. Right now, Jake, he is polling in at around 40 percent among noncollege whites across all of these states including Ohio, Iowa and Minnesota, not a great number by any means, but significantly better than Clinton, and right now when combined with growth among college whites and solid performance at least there among African-Americans, it's enough to put him in the lead. But as you say, Trump overcame that last time which is why Democrats can't sleep easy on it.</s>TAPPER: Yes, Gloria, I don't think, that the campaign manager for Biden, Jennifer O'Malley Dillon, I don't think she's faking it when she says, don't get complacent, who knows what's going to happen, 2016 happened, unexpected things can happen. Do you see a viable path to victory for both Trump and Biden?</s>GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think there is. I think the path to victory is a little wider for Joe Biden. There's lots of places he can go to and lose and still win. And I think what even, you know, the President's campaign manager Bill Stepien is telling reporters is, you know, there are a few paths we have but it seems that more has to go right in every single case for the President. So, what they're looking at, for example, is first of all winning states like Florida, Georgia, Iowa and Ohio. Now Ohio has Republican DNA. You can see that happening pretty easily. Florida is Florida. So, you're always going to say that's a toss-up state. But Iowa right now, for example very close. Georgia very close. And then even if they were to win all of those, they still have to move on to other states like Arizona, North Carolina, Michigan where it could be more problematic for them.</s>TAPPER: And Ron, the Supreme Court essentially just ruled, it was a 4 to 4 tie, so it deferred to the earlier ruling by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court that the state of Pennsylvania -- sorry, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania can count late ballots as long as those ballots arrive by three days after election day. The latest poll shows that Pennsylvania, it remains close. I mean the margin is thin. Biden is over 50 percent in these polls, but the margin is thin within the margin of error. So, this is more information that could make it more likely that we will not know on election night who won.</s>BROWNSTEIN: And if you look, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, you know, they do not have a big experience with large numbers of absentee ballots, it's going to take them a while. Look, we have inner tier and outer tier of swing states. I mean the inner tier are those 3 Rust Belt states, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, then Arizona, North Carolina, Florida across the Sun Belt. Then you've got the outer tier, Democrats targeting Ohio, Iowa in the Rust Belt, also hoping for Georgia, maybe Texas in the Sun Belt and Trump trying to but Nevada and Minnesota in play. The problem the President has if Biden holds everything Clinton won, the 20 states that she won, and just adds the 3 big Rust Belt states, that's it. Or if he adds 2 of them and Arizona where he is strong, that's it. You know, North Carolina and Florida, as Gloria was saying, there's lot of, you know, Democrats who are never going to rely entirely on those states, but they don't have to win them. The challenge President has is every place his path, Jake, is the same. Turning out more noncollege and nonurban white voters than pollsters expects. And it really is the same equation for him whether we're talking about Florida, Wisconsin, Arizona or North Carolina. He's got to change the electorate in order to win.</s>TAPPER: And Gloria, Republican lawyers are already claiming that the decision by the U.S. Supreme Court and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court would let voters cast ballots after the election. Obviously, that would be illegal. But that clearly makes it -- is a signal that they're preparing to challenge the results in Pennsylvania. Do you think that it's 100 percent that the Trump lawyers are going to challenge whatever happens in Pennsylvania, there's going to be a post-election fight?</s>BORGER: Yes, I think there are lawyers waiting to pounce all over the country, Pennsylvania included. And what you're going to see is people saying, oh, well look at these, these postmarks are smudged, we can't read them, obviously they were sent before election day. The problem with that reasoning is that in order for this to make a huge difference and to disqualify or decertify an election in an entire state is, you'd have to have that done in the thousands, in the tens of thousands of ballots. It would have to be well organized. And as everyone knows who has studied this going back to Bush/Gore that just doesn't happen on that large a level. But in order to answer your question, sure, the lawyers are there. They are going to challenge everything. They are going to try to delay vote counts and that's what we have to be prepared for on election night. We have to be prepared to be patient and wait. And I keep on reminding everyone that in the year 2000 in Bush v. Gore, it took 36 days until the Supreme Court actually decided that election.</s>TAPPER: And not only that, in 2004 we didn't have a clear winner necessarily that night because of the state of Ohio. It wasn't until the next day that John Kerry conceded to George W. Bush. Gloria Borger, Ron Brownstein, thank you so much. He commanded the raid or was the commander of special ops of the raid when Osama Bin Laden was killed and now, he's made his pick for commander in chief. He's going to tell me why. That's next. Plus, a new trial launched where dozens of healthy people will willingly be injected with coronavirus to help find a vaccine.

U.S. Nears 221,000 Deaths And Tops 8.2 Million Cases As Coronavirus Second Wave Surges

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: May his memory and then memories of all those lost in this horrible pandemic, be a blessing. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you tomorrow.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM and we're following breaking news. The coronavirus death toll here in the United States now nearing 221,000 people with more than 8.2 million confirmed cases, as the second wave of the pandemic washes across the United States. Also breaking President Trump heading to the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, as he and Joe Biden battle to secure a path to 270 electoral votes. That's what's needed to win the presidency with just two weeks, two weeks left in the race, and both candidates are set to square off at a final debate in just two days. The President saying he may change his strategy. And the Biden advisor telling CNN the former vice president is ready for President Trump to, "bully and deflect" on the debate stage. It should be lively. Let's begin this hour with our White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. She's already in Erie, Pennsylvania. Kaitlan the President is holding another rally where you are in another key battleground state where the coronavirus is surging.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. And before the President left to come here already scheduled to leave in the next few minutes, he was at the White House where he was supposed to be taping an interview with "60 Minutes" because they're doing a sit down with the President, the Vice President and of course Joe Biden and Senator Kamala Harris as well. But we are told there is apparently some drama happening at the White House as that interview was underway. And we're told by sources that after about 45 minutes, the President abruptly ended the interview and did not return for what was supposed to be a scheduled walk and talk session with the vice president that he was going to tape later on. And instead, Mike Pence taped his own interview and they did not appear together on camera. After clearly something happened behind the scenes during this interview because then the President tweeted out this video of Lesley Stahl, the woman who interviewed him for "60 Minutes" criticizing her, Wolf, for not wearing a mask he said after their interview was over. Though, of course, this is a President who has regularly questioned the use of mask and the benefits of them. And he's on his way here to a rally where, we should note, many of the people in attendance are not wearing masks.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I'm going to Erie, Pennsylvania today which is -- which I love.</s>COLLINS (voice-over): Tonight, President Trump will rally supporters in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, where his poll numbers have dropped as coronavirus cases have surged.</s>TRUMP: We're in the middle of a battle that we have to win.</s>COLLINS: First Lady Melania Trump was supposed to join Trump in Pennsylvania for her first public appearance since getting coronavirus but she cancelled hours beforehand because of what our chief of staff said was a lingering cough.</s>TRUMP: The rallies are rallies like in history.</s>COLLINS: Despite signs the U.S. is headed toward another coronavirus peak, the President has continued to hold large rallies while attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci following his interview with "60 Minutes."</s>TRUMP: But he did say something that we kept him off television. And yet we allowed him to do "60 Minutes" the other night. He couldn't do without our approval. So, how do we keep him off television but by the way, do "60 Minutes." Look, he's a nice guy. The only thing I say is he's a little bit sometimes not a team player.</s>COLLINS: Trump and Fauci rarely come face to face anymore and the Director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Francis Collins, says the president is mainly getting his COVID-19 updates from other sources.</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: I think the President primarily is getting his information from the vice president, from Dr. Atlas.</s>COLLINS: Trump's trip to Pennsylvania comes one day after a deadlocked Supreme Court let a ruling stand that would allow Pennsylvania to count mail in ballots up to three days after Election Day. A major win for Democrats that Trump criticized today while his third pick for the Supreme Court awaits a confirmation vote.</s>TRUMP: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. We got a strange ruling from the Supreme Court yesterday. That was very strange.</s>COLLINS: In the final days before the election, President Trump is attempting to use the power of the federal government to benefit him by calling on Attorney General Bill Barr to launch an investigation into Biden.</s>TRUMP: He's got to act and he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. This is major corruption, and this has to be known about before the election.</s>COLLINS: Without basis, Trump now regularly labels his political opponent a criminal.</s>TRUMP: And as far as I'm concerned, the Biden family is a criminal enterprise.</s>COLLINS: The President says he'll still show up in Nashville Thursday for the next presidential debate after the commission that organizes them announced that both candidates microphones will be muted for parts of the debate in hopes of making it more coherent than the last one.</s>TRUMP: He made a statement about the military. You said I said something about the military.</s>COLLINS: Now at the beginning of each segment, Trump and Biden will have two minutes to answer the question, while the others audio feed is turned off.</s>TRUMP: There's nothing fair about this debate. But that's OK.</s>COLLINS: Now, Wolf, in that same interview just this morning, the President said he would like to have a larger coronavirus relief bill than what even Democrats have offered as they are going back and forth with the White House trying to negotiate. But our Capitol Hill team is now told that during the senate lunch today, that Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell indicated there was very little appetite for any kind of a big coronavirus stimulus bill being passed before the election, even as the President this morning sounded confident he could get Republicans on board. Right now, based off that lunch a few hours later, it does not sound like they are on the same page with the President when it comes to a next coronavirus relief package. Wolf.</s>BLITZER: And so many millions of Americans are suffering right now. They need help. All right, Kaitlan in Erie, Pennsylvania for us, so we'll get back to you. Let's get some more on the breaking pandemic news. Our National Correspondent Erica Hill is working on the story for us from New York today. Erica, the country appears to be in the grip of this dreaded second wave of the virus.</s>ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it doesn't look good Wolf, to put it mildly. In fact, a number of states setting records all the wrong ones. Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, just a short time ago called the numbers in his state grim. Hospitalizations there have just hit a rate, the highest rate since the pandemic began. He said everything is going in the wrong direction. And as I mentioned, Wolf, Ohio is not the only state setting these kinds of records.</s>HILL (voice-over): The dreaded second wave now washing over the</s>U.S. GOV. J.B. PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: Nearly every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID related hospitalizations over the last week.</s>HILL: Illinois among the 42 states reporting a rise in hospitalizations, 14 hitting new peaks. It's not just hospital setting records. Nationwide, the virus is surging.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we're all real nervous about what could be coming.</s>HILL: Thirty-one states reporting a rise in new cases over the past week, just one, Hawaii, seen a decline.</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDRENS HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER DIRECTOR: Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or March of next year, we are heading into the worst part of this pandemic for this country.</s>HILL: New case numbers are typically lower on Mondays. This week, the U.S. added more than 58,000 topping a Monday record set three months ago.</s>MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIR. UNIV. OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: For the first time in many areas, we're seeing over half the cases having no recognized risk exposure, meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So it shows you how prevalent or how common this virus transmission is in our communities.</s>HILL: That silence spread, fueling new concern and advice about the holidays.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: It's unnatural for us to think all those people that we love and trust could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer.</s>HILL: The head of the National Institutes of Health, the latest expert to announce his own family won't be gathering.</s>F. COLLINS: For the first time in 27 years, there will be no family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance.</s>HILL: But staying safe over the next several months can be lonely.</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: There's going to be a huge impact on mental health. You're going to get sad, you're going to get scared, you're going to get depressed. This is a normal response to a very stressful situation.</s>HILL: Channeling that stress into exercise, meditation or virtual gatherings can help. And there's some encouraging news. A new study finds ventilation including open windows, spacing, desk shields and hand washing, greatly reduce the spread in classrooms. Hopefully allowing more scenes like this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. How are you?</s>HILL: A bright spot amid an uncertain future.</s>HILL: And, Wolf, just some more information on how the American public is viewing this. There were a lot of questions about what would happen after the President's diagnosis of COVID-19. Well, a new poll out from Axios-Ipsos finds that in the wake of the President's COVID-19 diagnosis, 37 percent of respondents said they're actually less likely to trust the President when it comes to the virus, 60 percent said more likely, 46 percent remain unchanged. So overall, Wolf, not much of a boost for the President.</s>BLITZER: Yes. All right, Erica, thank you very much. Erica Hill in New York. Let's get some more on all of this. Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us. Sanjay, the former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb is warning that the United States in his words only a week away from a rapid acceleration or rapid acceleration of the virus. How does the situation now here in the U.S. compare, for example, in the situation in Europe right now? What are the signs for the next few weeks?</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a model worth looking at, Wolf. You remember going back to April we can show the trend lines between what was happening in the United States and the European Union. Remember the beginning there -- and if you can tell the beginning there at the end of March, the yellow line just a little bit in front of the orange line. We are watching Italy at that point, you may remember, and we were still -- the numbers are still low in the United States. But the worry was that we would start to trend as we were seeing in Europe, and we certainly did. The E.U. was able to bring their numbers down for a period of time. And then now in the -- that's significant second wave. But again, now look at the right side of the graph, Wolf, the yellow line again, just above the orange line a little bit earlier. We're heading in the same direction, Wolf. That's where, I think, Dr. Gottlieb is -- that's what he's referring to. A lot of people have sort of said this. See what's happening the E.U., look how long predates what's happening here. And you can anticipate that same sort of pattern here. Because, you know, many of the same things are happening here in terms of those case rates. Quickly, Wolf, I'll just point out as well, it's one thing the numbers of newly infected people, but it's obviously the hospitalizations and deaths that are so tragic, hospitalizations are a truer measure in some way of the impact of this. And we know in many states around the country, hospitalizations are at the highest that they've been throughout this pandemic. And we know going into flu season, going into cooler season, it's going to get a little worse, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: It may not just be a little worse, it may be a whole lot worse. We hope not. But it's --</s>GUPTA: Yes.</s>BLITZER: -- the fear is there. As you heard in the report that Erica reported, NIH Director Francis Collins is saying he won't be getting together with his own family for Thanksgiving this year. It's the first time they won't be together in 27 years. For most Americans will gatherings for the holidays, be simply too dangerous this year?</s>GUPTA: I think so sadly, Wolf. I think that is the case. I mean, we've gone through the same decision through with our own family. My parents living in Florida, they very much wanted to see us and the grandkids, but this year is going to be a wash on that sort of stuff. I think next year, we'll look forward to celebrating in earnest but it's just too tough. I mean, we'll be inside. My parents are vulnerable by given their age. So, you know, it'd be hard. Plus, it's family. And you know, what, are you going to maintain the physical distance with family? How do you do that? As Michael Osterholm said, one way to think about it is that, you know, you're going to be sharing air, right? And when you're sharing air in an indoor location, it's hard to be outside because of the weather, you're more likely to possibly transmit the virus. So, we're not doing it. I think, you know, the best guidance would be this year to probably, you know, not do this and wait till next year when we are in better position.</s>BLITZER: Yes. So, so sad. Dr. Fauci is also saying that the U.S. doesn't necessarily need to lock down again even though these new trends are so concerning. If we're not heading for a lockdown, what should we be doing to get through these next few weeks and months?</s>GUPTA: You know, Wolf, this has been one of the most befuddling things. I mean, there are simple public health measures, the same people who say, you know, we absolutely cannot lock down. Many of them are people who say we will also not follow the basic public health measures. Let me give you the example of Scottsdale Arizona, because people always say, show me how this could actually work. We can show Scottsdale. We know when Scottsdale came out of stay at home orders, there was a significant increase in the overall number of infection, 151 percent increase after stay at home orders were lifted. We're talking between June 1 and June 15. That was a significant surge. But Wolf, it's that second line, 75 percent drop following these basic prevention efforts. And this was over about a month, three weeks or so. Masks, limiting public events. And certain business closures, specifically ones where you get a lot of people clustering indoors, like bars, because, you know, you're drinking, you can't wear a mask indoors in a situation like that. But Wolf, 75 percent decrease in overall COVID-19 cases with those measures. That's huge. I mean, that's not a vaccine, that's no therapeutic. That is the same stuff we've been talking about for, you know, seven, eight months now. And I'm going to keep giving you these examples of things that work because hopefully it inspires people to actually make a difference here.</s>BLITZER: Yes, wearing a mask, social distancing, easy steps to do and will save thousands, thousands of lives in the coming weeks and months. Sanjay, thank you very much. Up next the path to 270. We'll take a closer look at where President Trump and Joe Biden stand in their battle to win enough electoral college votes to claim victory in two weeks. Plus, the new rule that will make this week's presidential debate, two days from now, very different from the last.

Thirty-two Million Early Votes Cast Two Weeks Before Election; Trump & Biden In Tough Battle For 270 Electoral Votes

BLITZER: With the presidential election exactly two weeks away and the final debate just two nights away, more than 32 million early ballots have already been cast, as President Trump and Joe Biden battle for the 270 electoral college votes needed to win the presidency. Let's dig deeper with our Political Director David Chalian. So David, where does the state by state race stand right now?</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: The all-important battle for 270 electoral votes, this is our current outlook of the Electoral College map, Wolf. Now, this is not a prediction of what it'll look like two weeks from now. This is just sort of a snapshot of where the race stands at the moment. Advantage Joe Biden, we have him at 290 votes that states that are either solidly or leaning in his direction. He's obviously over that threshold of 270. And President Trump down at 163. But I want to show you, Wolf, just how little Joe Biden needs to do in terms of converting states that Hillary Clinton lost to actually win this race. He doesn't even -- he has a nice cushion already. He doesn't need all of this. Take a look. Let me give Arizona, right now leaning in Joe Biden's direction to Donald Trump. He had two rallies there yesterday. I'm going to give him Arizona for the purpose of this exercise. I'll even give President Trump right now a state he's behind in the polls, Wisconsin, but one of those surprise states that he won last time around. And now I'm going to give the President, Wolf, every battleground toss upstate, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio, and Iowa. I've given him all the toss up states and some of those blue leaning states in Wisconsin and Arizona. Now, Joe Biden, all he needs is to win this congressional district up in Maine, the second congressional district, they award their electoral college votes by district, boom. So just look at that map. Joe Biden only has to flip Pennsylvania, Michigan, and the Nebraska and Maine electoral votes. And he's a 270. He's president. It's not a heavy lift from his substantial area of strength in the map right now.</s>BLITZER: And we only have two weeks to go. Two weeks, though, could be a long time. David, are there any places where President Trump is on offense trying to take a 2016 Clinton state away from Biden?</s>CHALIAN: There are. You see and this is what you should watch on election night to see if he's have any success. Right now, he's behind in those states. And it is mostly defense, I just showed you, it's mostly defense. But yes, take a look at Nevada right now leaning Joe Biden's direction. Let's give that to Donald Trump. Sorry, I'm assigning a Democrat. Let's give that to Donald Trump in Nevada, OK. He's also playing in Arizona. That was a state he won. So let's assume he's able to pull that back in this quarter. Minnesota is a place he's playing offense that Clinton won in 2016 and New Hampshire. So I've just given him New Hampshire, Minnesota, Nevada. He's behind in those states right now. Hillary Clinton won them. And I have Arizona coming to his back into his fold. Look at how much work he still has to do. He's at 194. So again, he would have to run the table, basically, to get over to 270 at that point. So yes, he's playing offense in some places, but he's not close in those places right now, Wolf. It's very much a defensive map for Donald Trump.</s>BLITZER: Certainly is. All right, thanks very much, David Chalian. Let's get some more on this. Our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger is with us. And our CNN Political Commentator Bakari Sellers is with us. He's the author, by the way of the new book, "My Vanishing Country." There you see it. You know, Gloria, the President is heading to the battleground state of Pennsylvania, he's going to be speaking at a rally later tonight. He narrowly won that state in 2016. But now, that's where he trails Joe Biden the most. So, what does that say about his path? The President's path to 270?</s>GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, as David was just saying, it's you know, he's playing defense right now. He's down nine points in Pennsylvania. And, you know, the, the easiest path for him would be to say, well, nothing is easy, as David points out. But what if he were to keep those blue states that he won, that he took away from Hillary Clinton last time around? Well, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, those were the three states that were real surprises in the last election. And he's trailing in all of those states substantially. And so, this is a very difficult for him. This is not saying that it is impossible, it is not impossible for him. But Joe Biden has so many more paths to victory than Donald Trump does right now, which is why he's in the state of Pennsylvania two weeks before the election, trying to flip a state back to his column in which he now trails substantially.</s>BLITZER: Yes, he does. You know, Bakari thanks to this U.S. Supreme Court ruling this week, Pennsylvania will count mail in ballots received up to three days after Election Day. Big picture. We know Democrats prefer to vote by mail Republicans prefer to vote in person. So how will this influence the results that we will start to see on election night?</s>BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what if it turns it from Election Day to election week or weeks. I think though, however, to both David and Gloria's point here, you know, Joe Biden has many ways to the White House. The fundamentals of this race, though, are drastically different than 2016. And I have to say that for my Democrats who are proverbial breadwinners, all my friends on the left we had this case I.D. (ph) from 2016. The fundamentals are so different. There's no credible third party who left leaning voters can vote for like Jill Stein. We pray that there's no Comey (ph) type incident 11 days before an election which changes the trajectory of a race. So things are vastly different. But Wolf, I can tell you this directly that we are all watching two states with Pennsylvania now being able to count ballots on three days after the race. Democrats are watching Florida and Ohio and a little bit of North Carolina. The reason being is because of Joe Biden is able to pull off Florida, Ohio or North Carolina, this races effectively over. All you have to do is go back to David Chalian's map. If Donald Trump does not win all three of those states, if he does not sweep all of those states that count their ballots on election night, he has no path to the White House.</s>BLITZER: Yes. If he loses Florida, his path to the White House is really, really going to be limited. You know, Gloria, you write at an excellent new column on cnn.com that the Trump reset, as it's called, will never really come about. Does that apply to Thursday's second and final presidential debate, 48 hours from now?</s>BORGER: Sure. You can go through training with him all over again. I don't know how much he's going to do. I don't know how much debate prep he's got left in him and say stop interrupting and the mics are going to shut off and behave a little differently. And Donald Trump is still going to do what Donald Trump is going to do. There is no resetting Donald Trump. We have learned that over the past four years. And I was talking to one of his biographers today who said to me, look, resetting him is like -- he looks at it like the death penalty. Because if he resets, that means that he's done something wrong. And he can never admit that he has done anything wrong in the past, because then he cannot be the best at everything, which is what he thinks he is. And he believes as he told us that he had a fabulous debate, that he defeated him in the debate, and that Joe Biden should be afraid of him in this next debate. So they can prep him all they want. But what you're going to get is Donald Trump.</s>BLITZER: You think the Biden folks, that the vice president, former vice president, Bakari, is ready for what the President is about to unleashed in that debate going after Hunter Biden probably repeatedly?</s>SELLERS: Yes. I mean, he's going to go extremely low. I just don't know if Joe Biden knows what to expect. I mean, Donald Trump, if his mic is muted, can literally walk across stage and try to take some time from Joe Biden's microphone. Nobody knows what's going to happen in this election or, excuse me, or in this debate. But Joe Biden's going to be prepared. Donald Trump has everything to gain out of this. I mean, he's the one who needs it. Joe Biden doesn't need it. And I don't think this is going to have any effect on November 3.</s>BLITZER: Well, watch it together with all of you. Bakari, thank you. Gloria, thanks to you as well. There's more breaking news. We're following talks on a new economic stimulus package are going down to the wire right now. We're just getting new information from some of the key players. I'll talk about that and more with Congressman Ro Khanna. There you see him. He's standing by up on Capitol Hill. We've got lots to discuss, lots at steak right now. We'll be right back.

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) Is Interviewed About The New Economic Stimulus Package; Pelosi Hopeful For Stimulus Deal By End Of Week As McConnell Suggests Little Appetite Before Election

BLITZER: We're following breaking news. In the last-minute push for a new economic stimulus package, according to multiple sources who were in the room during today's Senate Republican lunch, the Leader Mitch McConnell suggested there's little appetite for a deal before the election in two weeks. Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. The Majority Leader Mitch McConnell throwing cold water on a deal pointing to what he called logistical hurdles with so little time to go before Election Day. So, where does this leave the Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the House Democrats right now who are trying to come up with a deal with the White House, with the Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin?</s>REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, Mitch McConnell has made it clear to the American people where the obstacle is. He doesn't want this to come for a vote. He's saying he doesn't have the votes to clear a filibuster. As Speaker Pelosi and Mnuchin are coming closer and closer to a deal. The real obstacle in question is, is McConnell going to continue to have a rift with Trump or is he going to put this for a vote so that the American people can get relief?</s>BLITZER: You heard the President, he was doing an interview on Fox this morning in which he said, if there's a deal between the House Democrats and the White House, Steve Mnuchin, for example, Mark Meadows, the White House Chief of Staff, the President will support it, and then he'll make sure that the Senate Republicans support it as well. Do you buy that?</s>KHANNA: Well, I'm dubious, because why can't you just call McConnell and tell him that McConnell will be able to deliver the votes? I mean, if he really was that confident, he wouldn't let McConnell put his entire presidency at risk. The negotiations between the Speaker and Mnuchin are going well, they've narrowed their differences. Mnuchin has made key concessions to the Speaker on national testing. He's made key concessions on state and local aid. I believe the Speaker will get a deal. The whole thing is in McConnell's hands, and it's shocking to me after Trump has done every single thing McConnell wants with judges, he can't get McConnell to do something that his presidency rides on and that the country needs.</s>BLITZER: Yes, the President insists he'll get it done. We shall see. The House Speaker seems rather upbeat right now, she says the White House, in her words, has come a long way with more scientific language in this deal on fighting the coronavirus. You previously urged her to accept the White House offer of $1.8 trillion, a lot of money for the needy people out there. But was she right to hold out as she has?</s>KHANNA: She has gotten a better deal. I have urged her to make a deal, but I think she deserves tremendous credit. The deal is much better than it was a week ago. She has gotten more aid for children. She has gotten more language on testing. She's going to get more aid for state and local government. I think she has shown her formidable skills as a negotiator. Why she's leader of the caucus. Our caucus is united behind her. The disarray is with the Senate Republicans in the White House.</s>BLITZER: Bottom line right now, how important is it? If there's no deal between now and November 3rd, two weeks from today, could there be a deal during the lame-duck session, irrespective of whoever wins the presidency? Or is it going to have to wait until February or March, a new house and a new Senate? Because the stakes for so many millions of Americans out there, as you and I know, are enormous?</s>KHANNA: Wolf, the stakes are incredible. I mean, this is not a political game. People are losing their houses, they are running out of their 401(k)s, they can't put food on the table. I believe we have to do something to get a deal every single day before the election ideally, if not the first day after lame-duck. Every day, it's our moral obligation to make this the highest priority. So, I will continue to work on that. And I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic, and McConnell says, yes, we will get this deal done before the election.</s>BLITZER: Yes, a lot will depend on how much the President is ready to squeeze. Not only Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader but other Republicans. You're going to need 60 votes to break a filibuster in the Senate, 47 Democrats presumably if the House passes, this would go along but then you're going to need 13 Republicans. I suspect there will be 13 Republicans, it could be very, very significant. Congressman Ro Khanna of California, we shall see as you and I know, the stakes really are enormous. Thanks so much for joining us.</s>KHANNA: Thank you, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Coming up, Florida's Governor accused of pursuing what's called a herd immunity strategy to fight the pandemic. I'll talk about that and more with the Mayor of Miami Beach, Dan Gelber, he standing by live. We'll be right back.

Miami Beach Mayor: Florida Gov. Pursuing "Herd Immunity" Strategy

BLITZER: Florida's Governor is facing lots of criticism for his controversial handling of the coronavirus pandemic in his state. The Miami Beach Mayor Dan Gelber is joining us right now. Mayor Gelber, thank you so much for joining us. And you've actually accused the Governor Ron DeSantis of pursuing a so-called herd immunity strategy. In other words, letting the virus spread through the community while trying to protect the more vulnerable people in the community like seniors. Explain why you made that accusation and why you think that would be such a potentially dangerous policy?</s>MAYOR DAN GELBER (D), MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: Well, first of all, it's really not an accusation. The Governor late last month held a press conference for two hours. And the two -- among the two guests or three guests were the authors of what's called the Great Barrington Declaration, which is the statement of really a group of people that I think are pursuing a fringe theory that the best way to deal with this virus is to allow it to spread throughout the community at least allow it to spread through most of the community while protecting those who were at highest risk. That's who he had in the next day. He totally opened up everything and he even went so far as to prevent local governments like mine from implementing and enforcing our mask requirements on individuals. And we, of course, have given 1,000 people mask citations. We can't do that anymore. So he opened up absolutely everything, reduced social distancing requirements and didn't allow us to enforce mask mandates, which is exactly what the Great Barrington Declaration would say you should do and the experts he met would say, you should do.</s>BLITZER: These so-called experts, I should say. Dr. Fauci has strongly warned against pursuing this so-called herd immunity strategy, but we do know that Dr. Scott Atlas, who the President is brought into the Coronavirus Task Force, if it still exists, has advocated for that policy. Does Dr. Atlas have the ear of Governor DeSantis based on everything you know?</s>GELBER: Of course, he does. He was here talking about this very point with our Governor. Dr. Fauci has not been down here talking with our Governor. Dr. Atlas has, the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration have. And, of course, Dr. Fauci talked about this approach from the -- from really these outliers and said that it's really going to cause incredible harm, because the idea that you can allow it to spread throughout the community to give everybody, you know, immunity except for the most vulnerable is absurd, because you can't protect the most vulnerable. There are over a third of our society. There are seniors, there people with asthma, diabetes, people who are overweight, and you can't protect them. So the result is going to be, as Dr. Fauci and all the mainstream scientists and doctors have said, is really incredible danger to these vulnerable communities. And that just makes no sense, but it's what we're not doing in Florida. BLITZER; How devastating could a herd immunity strategy specifically be for the senior citizens in Miami Beach, indeed across Florida, because you have a very, very large elderly retired population down there?</s>GELBER: Well, we asked -- I asked some of our own doctors and scientists who we meet with every week, what it would do in our county. And Dade County has had a lot of the virus with the second leading county of the 3,000 counties in the country, with infections. We've had 3,500 deaths and obviously many more thousands hospitalized. They believe that a, conservatively, it would add at least 14,000 or 15,000 more deaths, which would mean, by the way, that it would become the leading cause of death in our county, more than every other cause of death, potentially combined. More than, you know, heart disease, cancer, pneumonia, gunshots, homicides, everything combined. And that's startling. So this is a very dangerous path. And I worry very much that this -- that our state in our county is a tinder, and that the Governor is lighting it. I hope we can stop that but we shouldn't have to protect ourselves from our own government.</s>BLITZER: If the situation, God forbid, worsens dramatically down there where you are, are you hopeful the Governor will change his mind and allow you to impose some new restrictions like mandating masks?</s>GELBER: You know, I -- look, I've asked him to reconsider this approach, especially since at the beginning, he was letting local government deliver the really difficult medicine of these kinds of restrictions. But I -- but I'm not sure he can be convinced. It's possible this is an election eve strategy, because the White House has embraced the same kind of approach. And it may just be trying to get people happy with the White House so that, you know, they'll think that this is the end of the virus which, of course, it's not. So maybe after the Election Day, he'll reconsider. I hope we don't have a spike.</s>BLITZER: Yes.</s>GELBER: We got an uptick, but I hope we don't have a spike because, you know, nobody can tolerate that again.</s>BLITZER: I hope you don't have a spike too. Mayor Gelber, thank you so much for joining us.</s>GELBER: Thank you, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: All right, coming up, the British are about to try a very risky experiment. Volunteers will knowingly be infected with the coronavirus to test an experimental vaccine. And later, new drama over at the White House as President Trump abruptly ends an interview for CBS's 60 Minutes. We'll tell you what happened.

Around 60,000 Injected In Chinese Vaccine Trials.

BLITZER: In global coronavirus headlines, China now says nearly 60,000 people have been injected with trial vaccines and claims there have been no serious adverse reactions. Let's go to CNN's David Culver. David, what are you seeing?</s>DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we're in the Yiwu city, which is about four-hour drive outside of Shanghai. The reason we're here is because this is one of the first places where China is releasing the COVID-19 vaccine, one of many that they have in phase three trials. And you can see folks are gathering around this community hospital. A lot of them are going through that one entrance, getting their temperature checked, and then trying to inquire a bit more as to how they can be part of this. We learned over the weekend they had several people receive the vaccine, however, one hospital worker telling us today they have just run out. Folks here standing by for when new supplies come in. Wolf?</s>BLITZER: All right, David Culver, reporting for us, thank you. In a risky move, volunteers in Britain are going to be exposed to the live coronavirus to test for a possible vaccine. CNN's Phil Black is in London for us. Phil, tell us more.</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a controversial idea. The British government has announced it wants to pay for volunteers to be exposed to the coronavirus. This London hospital will host human challenge trials where young healthy people will receive a potential vaccine, then to test that vaccine, they will later be deliberately dosed with the virus. The government believes these trials could help efficiently identify the most promising vaccines under development around the world. Critics say challenge trials are limited because the volunteers have to be young and healthy to minimize the risks and they don't best represent the people in the community who most desperately need an effective vaccine. But the trials will still be risky and ethically challenging because there is no guaranteed treatment for COVID-19. Wolf.</s>BLITZER: All right, Phil Black reporting for us, thank you very much. Meanwhile, Ireland just recorded its highest daily coronavirus death toll since May. And in a desperate effort to slow the virus, it's about to start a second lockdown. CNN's Nima Elbagir is monitoring the situation for us from London. Nima, what's the latest?</s>NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in a move that the Irish Prime Minister Micheal Martin said he recognized it would bring disappointment and despair. Ireland is set to return to the highest tier of coronavirus restrictions, tier 5. From midnight on Wednesday, Ireland will become the first European country to return for a second time to lockdown. They're shutting down most of the economy, all non-essential retail. They're banning travel of beyond a 5-kilometer limit. And they're banning gatherings of two households indoors. It was a move that was first called for by the country's Chief Medical Officer two weeks ago. But Martin at the time said it would have an unacceptable impact on the economy, while it seems that the unacceptable is the only way forward. Wolf?</s>BLITZER: All right, Nima, thank you very much. Coming up, just two weeks before the election, President Trump walked out of an interview with 60 Minutes and skips a joint taping with the Vice President Mike Pence. We're getting new information, standby.

Interview With Former Acting CDC Director, Dr. Richard Besser; Trump And Biden Prepare To Debate; Coronavirus' Second Wave; Trump Pressures Barr To Investigate Bidens As Election Nears

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. We're following the surging second wave of the coronavirus and the run-up to one of the most consequential elections in U.S. history. Tonight, the death to is nearing 221,000, with more than 8.2 million confirmed cases and counting. President Trump will soon appear at a campaign rally in one of the states seeing cases spike now. That would be Pennsylvania. It's a critical battleground state in the fight for the 270 electoral votes needed to win the election exactly two weeks from today. We're also counting down to the final debate between the president and the former Vice President Joe Biden. That's a little over 48 hours from now. President Trump suggesting he may -- repeat -- may change his strategy after his many interruptions threw the first debate into chaos. But a Biden adviser said the Democrat is preparing for Mr. Trump to once again bully and deflect. Let's start our coverage this hour with our White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, who is covering tonight's Trump rally in Erie, Pennsylvania. Kaitlan, before the president left for that rally, he abruptly ended a television interview. Tell us what happened.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. It's an interesting closing message that the president is making to voters with these last two weeks to go before the election, because just this week alone, the president has preemptively attacked the moderator of Thursday night's debate. He's gone after another reporter yesterday on the tarmac for not asking more about the unsubstantiated story about Joe Biden's son. And now, today, he's criticizing Lesley Stahl of CBS News, after we were told by sources he abruptly ended an interview they were doing earlier and not going on with scheduled interviews with the vice president that he was supposed to do for "60 Minutes" ahead of that airing on Sunday night, as the president is basically lashing out at every reporter that he sees.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I'm going to Erie, Pennsylvania today, which is -- which I love.</s>K. COLLINS (voice-over): Tonight, President Trump will rally supporters in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, where his poll numbers have dropped as coronavirus cases have surged.</s>TRUMP: We're in the middle of a battle that we have to win.</s>K. COLLINS: First lady Melania Trump was supposed to join Trump in Pennsylvania for her first public appearance since getting coronavirus. But she canceled hours beforehand because of what her chief of staff said was a lingering cough.</s>TRUMP: The rallies are rallies like in history.</s>K. COLLINS: Despite signs the U.S. is headed toward another coronavirus peak, the president has continued to hold large rallies while attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci following his interview with "60 Minutes."</s>TRUMP: But he did say something, that we kept him off television. And yet we allowed him to do "60 Minutes" the other night. He couldn't do it without our approval. So, how do we keep him off television, but, by the way, do "60 Minutes"? Look, he's a nice guy. The only thing I say is, he's a little bit sometimes not a team player.</s>K. COLLINS: Trump and Fauci rarely come face to face anymore, and the director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Francis Collins, says the president is mainly getting his COVID-19 updates from other sources.</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: I think the president primarily is getting his information from the vice president, from Dr. Atlas.</s>K. COLLINS: Trump's trip to Pennsylvania comes one day after a deadlocked Supreme Court let a ruling stand that would allow Pennsylvania to count mail-in ballots up to three days after Election Day, a major win for Democrats that Trump criticized today, while his third pick for the Supreme Court awaits a confirmation vote.</s>TRUMP: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the elections is over. We got a strange ruling from the Supreme Court yesterday. That was very strange.</s>K. COLLINS: In the final days before the election, President Trump is attempting to use the power of the federal government to benefit him by calling on Attorney General Bill Barr to launch an investigation into Biden.</s>TRUMP: He's got to act, and he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. This is major corruption. And this has to be known about before the election.</s>K. COLLINS: Without basis, Trump now regularly labeled his political opponent a criminal.</s>TRUMP: And, as far as I'm concerned, the Biden family is a criminal enterprise.</s>K. COLLINS: The president says he will still show up in Nashville Thursday for the next presidential debate, after the commission that organizes them announced that both candidates' microphones will be muted for parts of the debate, in hopes of making it more coherent than the last one.</s>TRUMP: He made a statement about the military. He said I said something about the military.</s>K. COLLINS: Now, at the beginning of each segment, Trump and Biden will have two minutes to answer the question, while the other's audio feed is turned off.</s>TRUMP: There's nothing fair about this debate, but that's OK.</s>K. COLLINS: And, Wolf, this morning, in that interview, the president also said that he wanted to do perhaps a bigger coronavirus relief bill than even what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has put on the table, even as Senate Republicans have been incredibly cautious at -- to say the least, on that. And the president said he was confident he could get them on board. But, Wolf, it does not seem to be the case, because Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said at lunch that there was no appetite, little to no appetite, for any kind of big stimulus bill to happen before the election, at least not really logistically -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Lots at stake on that front as well. Kaitlan Collins, reporting for us, thank you. Now the second wave of the coronavirus crisis here in the United States and a new warning about what to expect in the days ahead. CNN's Brian Todd is joining us. Brian, so what are we hearing about a rapid acceleration in cases?</s>BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf. Just a short time ago, a former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, said he believes the U.S. is about a week away from what he called a rapid acceleration in COVID-19 cases. That's a serious warning. The number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths has gone up in just way too many areas across the United States. And health experts say there really is no backstop for it.</s>TODD (voice-over): At this nursing home in Northwestern Kansas, an unmitigated disaster; 100 percent of its residents, 62 people, have tested positive for the coronavirus, county health officials say, and 10 residents have died.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: In congregate settings, like nursing homes, this is a disease that could spread like wildfire. And this, in fact, is what we have seen before in nursing homes and, tragically, what we're seeing in this nursing home in Kansas as well.</s>TODD: Kansas is one of 31 states trending upward in new coronavirus cases tonight. Only one state, Hawaii, is dropping. And 16 states, nearly a third of the country, are experiencing their highest seven-day averages for new cases since the pandemic began. One expert says the next four or five months may be the worst period of the entire pandemic.</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: We're at about 70,000 new cases a day probably by next week or the week after. We could be looking at a doubling of the number of deaths by the week after the inauguration.</s>TODD: Dr. Peter Hotez says things will get better by next summer, but that Americans have to get ready for some horrible numbers in the meantime and hang on. In Illinois, one of the states trending up in cases, officials say almost every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID-related hospitalizations over the last week, and tighter restrictions on gatherings are coming.</s>STEVE BRANDY, SPOKESMAN, WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS, HEALTH DEPARTMENT: It didn't happen by itself. People are being careless. People are getting cocky. People are thinking, it's not going to happen to me, it's over. No, that is all wrong.</s>TODD: The Williamsburg section of Brooklyn in New York City is not in a so-called red zone of coronavirus hot spots there, but state officials barred a planned gathering in that neighborhood for the wedding of the grandson of an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, a gathering where they say up to 10,000 people were expected to attend.</s>JUDITH HARRISON, NEW YORK ASSISTANT POLICE CHIEF: We don't want to disrespect anybody. People are allowed to gather, but within reason. We want to make sure that there are no large gatherings in excess of 50 people.</s>TODD: As communities fight off outbreaks, the race for a vaccine gets more intense. The British government is planning to conduct the first so-called human challenge studies, where healthy volunteers are deliberately infected with the virus and some receive an experimental vaccine. China says nearly 60,000 people have been injected with experimental vaccines during its phase three clinical trials, while, in the U.S., the health and human services secretary says officials hope to have enough vaccine by late March or early April to vaccinate everyone in America who wants one. But a leading vaccine expert puts that timetable a bit later.</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Early next year, you will start to see these vaccines rolling out to the highest-risk groups first, and then, by the middle of next year, the end of next year, hopefully, we will get getting it more to the general public.</s>TODD: And we have this just in a short time ago, an order from the Washtenaw County, Michigan, Health Department. Undergraduate students at the University of Michigan are now under an immediate stay-in-place order, that coming from the local county, the Washtenaw County Health Department, because that department has just learned that University of Michigan students account for 60 percent of the COVID-19 cases in that local area around the town of Ann Arbor, Michigan. This order is in place until Election Day, Wolf. Officials there saying the situation in that town especially related to the students is now critical. They're under a stay-in-place order. They can't go anywhere, except to class, to dining halls, or to do work that cannot be done remotely.</s>BLITZER: A stay-in-place order for two weeks. We will see what happens at the University of Michigan. All right, Brian, thank you very much for. Joining us now, Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting director over at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Besser, thank you so much for joining us. Things clearly are heading in the wrong direction right now here in the United States. As you heard the former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb says, we're only a week away from potentially seeing a rapid acceleration of new cases. Some experts are actually warning, these next few months could be the worst of this entire pandemic. Do you agree with those assessments?</s>DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Well, I think, Wolf, a lot depends on how we react and respond to this as a nation. As we're getting into colder weather, the virus will do better. Respiratory viruses like cold weather. They like periods with lower humidity. As it gets colder, we're having more indoor activity. We're going to be seeing kids returning home from college and bringing what's going on in their local areas. So, it depends how we respond. If public health is charged with investigating what's going on, and takes actions, makes recommendations, and we take actions based on that, then the rise will be blunted somewhat. What were you were hearing about what's going on at the University of Michigan is a response to the fact that the students they're driving that. So you make a change. The more you can investigate each one of these rises in each locality, and respond to it directly, the better chance there is of blunting this. The national numbers, when you look at that map with all the red, it looks terrible. But that -- those red colors are really the accumulation of what's happening in each little community. And that's where it needs to be addressed.</s>BLITZER: Dr. Besser, despite these very, very concerning trends that we're seeing all around the country, Dr. Fauci says he doesn't think a nationwide lockdown will be necessary. If lockdowns are off the table, what steps should we be taking right now to get through what most of the experts are suggesting will be a very, very difficult next few months?</s>BESSER: Yes, I think Dr. Fauci was saying the exact thing that I just said, which is, you have to -- a total national lockdown is not the way you approach this. You look at what's going on in each area. So, if it's a state where the governor is saying, well, we're not going to close bars and restaurants and you don't need to wear masks, well, if the numbers are going up, you need to close your bars and restaurants and people need to wear masks. If it's a state where the numbers have been going down and they're starting to trend up, if you can figure out which communities that's taking place in, making sure that the testing is available everywhere, and people have the resources to address this, you don't need to do a broad-brush lockdown. The more targeted you can be, the more you're going to be able to get past all this pandemic fatigue, which is leading a lot of people who are doing the right thing to start to slip and not do everything they used to do.</s>BLITZER: Dr. Besser, thank you so much for joining us.</s>BESSER: Thanks, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: All right, just ahead, we're tracking record-breaking turnout for early voting here in the United States and legal battles that could impact the election outcome. And is a debate rule aimed at limiting interruptions by President Trump, is it fair? I will speak with the Presidential Debates Commission co-chair Frank Fahrenkopf. He's standing by live.

Interview With Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro

BLITZER: We're following more breaking news here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Tonight, senior homeland security officials are urging voters to have patience just ahead of the -- of Election Day two weeks from now, and they're warning that results likely will not be known on November 3, this as early voting breaks all sorts of records. CNN Political Correspondent, Abby Phillip has more.</s>JOHN GRAHAM, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: Don't procrastinate, and vote early.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just two weeks to go, and it appears that's the way many Americans are feeling about this 2020 election.</s>LATINA WILLIAMS, WISCONSIN VOTER: I would rather get it done -- done and over with, and do it early. That way, I know I have voted.</s>PHILLIP: So far, more than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide, whether by mail or in-person. On the first day of in-person voting in Wisconsin, voters braving hours-long lines and rising COVID numbers.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion. That's what America is about.</s>PHILLIP: Huge lines snaking around entire buildings or down city blocks becoming a familiar sight all over the country, many voters even lining up before sunrise, rain or shine. Pending legal challenges in several states, including some battleground states, are far from over.</s>DAN PETRY, WISCONSIN VOTER: It's one of the most important elections, obviously. There's so much riding on the line.</s>PHILLIP: In Pennsylvania, the Supreme Court ruling on Monday the state can count mail-in ballots if they're sent in by Election Day and received within three days, even if they do not have a legible postmark, something the president is already attacking.</s>TRUMP: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. What kind of a thing? So what does that mean?</s>QUESTION: John Roberts.</s>TRUMP: We're going to wait -- we're going to wait until after November 3 and start announcing states? That's crazy.</s>PHILLIP: Pennsylvania state law says that the counting of absentee ballots cannot begin until Election Day, which, combined with the court ruling allowing ballots to be received three days after Election Day, means we may not know the results of the presidential race for several days after November 3.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You won't have the precise number, certainly, for a few days. But I think you're going to have a real good sense of where things are going.</s>PHILLIP: Meanwhile, in North Carolina, the state elections board now extending the deadline to accept mail-in ballots postmarked by Election Day through November 12, more than a week after the election. But the legal battle is still ongoing. As of this morning, in North Carolina, 1.9 million ballots have been cast. That represents 25 percent of the state's registered voters. And in Florida, voters are turning out in droves on the first day of early in-person voting. The state says more than 366,000 Floridians cast votes Monday. By this morning, Florida was just shy of three million ballots cast overall. The same time four years ago, Florida had just over 1.6 million total ballots cast.</s>TRACY ALSTON-BUNN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: If you're not going to vote, don't complain for the next four years. That's the way I look at it.</s>PHILLIP: And while we have heard some concerns from some voters that they don't trust the mail system, take the state of Michigan, for example. We are seeing them using the mail-in voting system in record numbers. The state's governor, Gretchen Whitmer, said three million ballots have been requested. About half of those have been returned already two weeks before the Election Day. And that's compared to 4.6 million ballots that were cast in all of the 2016 election. Whitmer says that Michigan is on track to have more voters voting in this election than ever before -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Interesting. All right, Abby, thank you, Abby Phillip reporting for us. Joining us now, the attorney general of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro. Attorney General, thank you so much for joining us. As you're well aware, Pennsylvania is a critically important battleground state in this election. So, what will this U.S. Supreme Court decision mean for the timing of election results? When can we expect to know who won the presidential election in Pennsylvania?</s>SHAPIRO: Well, Wolf, the Supreme Court ruling gives us clarity, and it should give the voters confidence that they can vote, whether they vote in-person November 3, or whether they vote by mail ahead of time. And if they vote by mail, the importance of this Supreme Court ruling is as follows. They can drop their ballot off in a drop box. Donald Trump and his enablers were trying to do away with drop boxes. By the way, 40 states rely on drop boxes. And the second thing is, is, as long as their ballot is postmarked by Election Day, and received by Friday after the election, it'll be counted. Look, we have had a president of the United States who's led an assault on our laws here in Pennsylvania and tried to discourage people from voting. And what the Supreme Court did last night was make very clear that they want these votes to be counted, they want clarity in this process. And we want to assure all Pennsylvanians that their legal eligible votes will be counted, notwithstanding the noise coming from the president.</s>BLITZER: It's so, so critically important, and so many people don't want to wait in long lines because of the coronavirus pandemic. They want to just drop off their ballot, if possible. The extended deadline, Attorney General, will likely lead to a dramatic -- and we have already seen this -- a dramatic increase in mail-in ballots that your state receives. Do you have the bandwidth to count all these votes and do it quickly and accurately?</s>SHAPIRO: The clerks do have the bandwidth. I think they learned a lot from the primary process, which was really the first time Pennsylvania was able to use vote by mail. And I will break it down for you. About six million people voted in the last presidential election. About three million have already requested their ballots through the mail. And more than a million have already been returned. And while state law doesn't allow those clerks to begin processing those ballots until Election Day, I think you will find, by the real early morning hours of Wednesday, right after the election, between a combination of what votes are outstanding and what party they're from, along with all the votes that have already been tallied from the precincts, I think you will have a pretty good sense of where Pennsylvania is heading. Certainly, we won't have a final number until later in the week, but I think you will have a pretty good sense of where things are going on election morning.</s>BLITZER: It's going to be a dramatic night, I'm sure, for all of us and probably a few days afterwards. The president is in your state tonight for a rally in Erie, Pennsylvania. We're only seeing some masks, very little, if any, social distancing. Pennsylvania, as you well know, Attorney General, just reported its 15th day in a row with more than 1,000 new coronavirus cases. Are you attempting to enforce any public health measures at all during the president's political event later tonight?</s>SHAPIRO: That enforcement is left to the governor and local law enforcement. So I will leave it to them to comment on that. But I will tell you, it is just the height of recklessness and irresponsibility, by the way, for a guy who had COVID, who knows how serious this is. Yet he wants to pretend that the virus doesn't exist to suit some ridiculous political aim of his, a political claim, by the way, that's not working. People are on to him. They recognize that 220,000 Americans have died, thousands here in Pennsylvania died and sick, because this president failed to get this pandemic under control, because he refused to listen to the experts, and now is even attacking Dr. Fauci, the expert. And for him to bring this to Pennsylvania and create this type of chaos in Erie, an amazing community, and potentially sicken other people, the way he has in other states, should be enough for voters to make a thoughtful decision about who's best to lead this country forward, certainly not someone who ignores science and puts lives at jeopardy, which is exactly what he's doing in Erie, Pennsylvania, tonight.</s>BLITZER: It is so, so worrisome. The attorney general of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, thank you so much for joining us.</s>SHAPIRO: Good to be with you, Wolf. Thanks.</s>BLITZER: Thank you. Just ahead: President Trump demands that the attorney general of the United States, Bill Barr, launch an immediate investigation of Hunter Biden. I will talk about it with the president's former National Security Adviser John Bolton. There you see him. He's standing by live.

NIH Director Says, It's Just Not Safe For Family Thanksgiving Gatherings

BLITZER: As new coronavirus cases are surging across the United States, the director of the National Institutes of Health now said it's just not safe to gather with his family for Thanksgiving this year. Let's discuss with CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Leana Wen, she's an Emergency Room Physician, a former Baltimore City Health Commissioner. Dr. Wen, thank you so much for joining us. Let's listen to the NIH Director, Dr. Francis Collins, explain his decision.</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, NIH DIRECTOR: I had to have a family Zoom call with my family on Sunday and conclude that for the first time in 27 years, there will be no family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance with people coming from different parts of the country of uncertain status. The problem with this disease is it is so easy for people to be infected and not know it.</s>BLITZER: So, Dr. Wen, do Americans need to put their holiday traditions aside this year in favor of public health or are there ways to limit to risks while modifying how we celebrate?</s>DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, families are going to be faced with some really difficult decisions ahead. And I hope that people will keep in mind the following, first, that there is this virus that is surging out of control in many parts of the country. And at the rate that we're going, it's going to look much worse before it gets any better. And it will be worse come Thanksgiving time. The other is that if the small gatherings, indoors with family and friends, that's actually driving the surge. And as Dr. Collins was saying, there is a high level of asymptomatic spread. And I am sure that none of us want to be inadvertently infecting those we love. And so I would say let's celebrate outdoors. Not indoors this holiday. If you really want to get together indoors, you should quarantine -- everybody should quarantine themselves for 14 days and get tested, which would substantially reduce the risk. But that's something that is not really practical for many people. And so I think we will have a lot of virtual celebrations this year recognizing that this is not for forever but we need to get through this winter safely.</s>BLITZER: We got to be safe, absolutely. What do you recommend for families, Dr. Wen, with, let's say, college-aged students who've been away at school. Can those members of the family safely travel home this holiday season?</s>WEN: So, it depends on the length of staying. If it's only going to be four or five days that they're coming back, I would say it's probably not worth it, especially because so many college campuses have had outbreaks. And it's also difficult for students to quarantine themselves prior to coming back. But many colleges also are going to be letting out. Their semester going to be ending at Thanksgiving and the students have to come back. If that's the case, and in particular, if there are vulnerable individuals living in the same household, they should come back, quarantine themselves for 14 days, then get tested. And in that time, they can see their family members and loved ones outdoors but spaced at least six feet apart. And again, I know that sounds like a lot but we need to get through this year. Next year is going to be very different. Hopefully, we'll have a vaccine. We'll have many therapeutics but we have to get through this winter.</s>BLITZER: Yes, a lot of those college-aged students, they maybe being asymptomatic, they may not have a clue that they have coronavirus but they could clearly pass it on to their parents or they're grandparents or others. That's a deep, deep concern. Dr. Leana Wen, thank you so much for joining us. Always appreciate having you here in</s>THE SITUATION ROOM. WEN: Thanks very much.</s>BLITZER: All right. Just ahead, after the constant interruptions that plagued the first presidential debate, a new plan will mute candidates microphones for parts of the next contest. I'll speak with the co- chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates, Frank Fahrenkopf. He's standing by live. We'll discuss that change and more when we come back.

One-On-One With Debate Commission Co-Chair.

BLITZER: In the wake of the chaotic first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, the Debate Commission says it will mute candidate microphones during portions of the final contest Thursday night. Let's discuss with Frank Fahrenkopf, the co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Frank, thank you so much for joining us. How will this microphone muting process work? And what makes the commission confident will this ensure a less chaotic debate than the first one?</s>FRANK FAHRENKOPF, CO-CHAIRMAN, COMMISSION ON PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Well, you know, Wolf, there's no question that the first debate was a disappointment for everybody, and I think particularly for the American people who were tuning in to see where the candidates stood on the issues. So the commission was very, very careful here. We issued the rules for the first and last debate in June of this year, and both candidates accepted the rules. As you know, the 90 minutes is divided into six sections, the moderator, solely the moderator. The commission has nothing to do with it, the names, subject matter of each section. Now, they also agreed as part of the format that for the first four minutes of each of these six sections, each of them would get to speak for two minutes uninterrupted. No interruptions whatsoever. Well, that didn't work at the first debate in Cleveland --</s>BLITZER: Yeah.</s>FAHRENKOPF: -- because as you know, there were a lot of interruptions. And to be fair, it was on both sides on occasions. So we as a commission knew we couldn't change rules without the consent of both. But our thought is that by saying to the candidates, as we did, in our release yesterday, after we consider all this, that what's going to happen is when the moderator asks candidate number one to begin their two minutes to talk uninterrupted, the other candidate's mic will not be live. It'd just be the person who was speaking for the two minutes. When those two minutes are up, that then there's the other -- candidate B's chance to talk, his microphone will come on and the other one will go off. Now, that -- after the four minutes is over, the microphones are open totally, and the moderator then can, you know, proceed to ask questions and get answers. And then we get to the next section.</s>BLITZER: And then have 11 minutes after that.</s>FAHRENKOPF: So, that's the way we're going. That's right.</s>BLITZER: Yeah, go ahead, finish.</s>FAHRENKOPF: Go ahead. Well, I'm saying so what we're doing here is we're not making a new rule. We're just enforcing the rule that both candidates agreed to in the first place.</s>BLITZER: Right. As you know, the president has been very critical of you and the rest of the commission in light of this decision to mute microphones during part of the debate saying, and I'm quoting him now, these are not good people. This commission, he says, a lot of funny things go on with them. What's your response to the bitter, very angry criticism he's leveling against you and your colleagues on the commission?</s>FAHRENKOPF: Listen, it's a political season. We know it's a political season. This is a hard-fought campaign. And, you know, I've been at this a long, long time, so I've had a lot of things said about me over that period of time. We are -- we work very hard as a commission. We take it extremely importantly, we consider everything purportedly and we never do it to favor one candidate over the other. As I've often said, we all have our USA hats on when we're making these decisions. And we think that this decision is in the best interest of the people of the United States to hear these two candidates, at least for that period of time without any interruption, as to where they stand on the issues that are so important today.</s>BLITZER: Final quick question, are you going to test both candidates for the coronavirus before the debate?</s>FAHRENKOPF: Yes. The testing will be done. HCA, which has been designated to be the health group in Nashville, I think it's Health Corporation of America, designated by the Cleveland Clinic. We'll be meeting with and working with the doctors for the White House and for former Vice President Biden.</s>BLITZER: Will everyone except for the candidates and moderator have to wear masks during the course of those 90 minutes?</s>FAHRENKOPF: Yes. In order to get in the hall, you will have to have a mask and have to have been tested. The ticket says that you will comply with all medical protocols. And one of them is you must wear a mask all the way through and can't take it off. Now, you may remember that in Nashville -- excuse me, Cleveland, we're going to Nashville. In Cleveland, we had some of the first family remove their masks and not wear the masks. Both candidates have now agreed, their campaigns, that everyone will leave their masks on for the whole --</s>BLITZER: Good.</s>FAHRENKOPF: -- if there's first family there, I'm not sure at this point in time, and will not take the masks off. There was some disagreement that may have been fair with regard to whether some people were wearing masks that were favoring one candidate over the other. That's been now resolved. Both candidates have committed that their guests will wear their masks throughout.</s>BLITZER: As they should. Frank Fahrenkopf, good luck to you. Good luck to everyone. Thank you so much for everything you guys are doing. We're grateful. And we'll have more news right after this.

Feds Reveal Russia And Iran have Interfered With Presidential Election; "Washington Post:" Trump Weighs Firing FBI Director After Election As Frustration With Wray, Barr Grows; Obama: Trump's Actions Embolden Others To Be Cruel, Racist

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now.</s>ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Erin, thanks and because we continue to learn more about this breaking story by the minute, I want to go back to bring back a CNN's Evan Perez for just to kind of go deeper into this. Evan, if you can just talk about what this press -- what came out of this? Evan, hey, can you hear me? It's Anderson.</s>EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.</s>COOPER: Okay, we are on the air right now. Can you just go into some detail about what we heard now from the D.N.I. and from Chris Wray of the F.B.I.?</s>PEREZ: Well, we heard -- Anderson, we heard from John Ratcliffe, the head of -- the Director of National Intelligence that both Iran and Russia have gained access to a voter registration system, and appeared to at least have access to that data. Now, the question is, what can they do with that? With the Iranians, according to Ratcliffe, they were behind a series of e-mails that have been received around the country, Democratic voters were getting these e-mails --</s>COOPER: Right. Florida, Alaska, and I think at least one other state in particular.</s>PEREZ: Right. And they were being threatened to say you have to change your registration. We're going to be watching you. And if you don't, we're going to come after you. And so the implication was that these people, whoever these hackers were, could perhaps see how you voted, and so that was a concern that I think the Intelligence Community, the F.B.I. had about these e-mails and these threats that voters were getting around the country. And so that's the reason why you saw this rushed press conference. I've never had -- I've never seen the F.B.I. do a hurried press conference like this. You know, it's a very unusual situation, but it gives you an indication -- it is an indication of how worried they are about the next couple of weeks, about the potential for foreign countries to try to do influence operations that could cause chaos in this country.</s>COOPER: So Evan, I want to read something that John Ratcliffe said at this press conference, because I find it a little confusing. He said, "To that end, we have already seen Iran sending spoofed e-mails designed to intimidate voters, incite social unrest and damage President Trump. You may have seen some reporting on this in the last 24 hours, or you may have even been one of the recipients of those e-mails. Additionally, Iran is distributing other content to include a video that implies that individuals could cast fraudulent ballots even from overseas. This video claims about such allegedly fraudulent ballots are not true." This is a transcript, I'm sorry, it's got little inaccuracies. "These actions are desperate attempts by desperate adversaries." He is saying those e-mails that people receive, the Democratic voters received, saying, we know you're a Democrat. You need to vote for Trump. We're going to be watching you, threatening Democrats to vote for Trump. He is saying somehow that is designed to damage President Trump. Isn't it designed to damage also Joe Biden?</s>PEREZ: Yes, I mean, look, it's a little bit confusing to see that. But I think what he is going after, and again, I'm trying to figure out exactly how he is sort of rationalizing this. But I think because these threats were being purported to come from the Proud Boys who are of course, associated supporters of President Trump that it would be seen as Trump supporters threatening Democratic voters, and in that way, trying to essentially undermine President Trump. I think the larger point that perhaps Ratcliffe is not capturing is that this is about sowing chaos in this country. The Iranians don't really care. They want -- this is what the Intelligence Community believes. The Iranians simply want to divide Americans, want to exploit the divisions that already exist, and use some of these messages that people are getting because they know that this is a very divided country. People are going to amplify some of these things, and perhaps set people up against each other.</s>COOPER: And Evan, did Ratcliffe or Christopher Wray, and we should point out Chris Wray is, you know, a straight shooter. He's not a politician. He comes from a legal background. His entire career has been as an attorney. And he has obviously been criticized heavily by the by the President. Ratcliffe comes from the world of politics. He is clearly an ideologue, which is I guess why I'm asking this question about why he is sort of shaping this as this is to damage Trump. Has he said anything or did Chris Wray say anything about what actually Russia has been doing?</s>PEREZ: They said very little about it. They said that they know that Russians have gotten into the system. They haven't seen any activity from the Russians about, you know, to see what they're doing with that information that they've obtained. Now, this is the same activity that the Russians had back in 2016. We know that there were into some systems. They ended up not actually doing anything at least that's the assessment of the Intelligence Community. So it's possible that it's a repeat of that. They were simply getting in to see how the systems work.</s>PEREZ: And of course, we can't rest easy. They we understand that today, some of the states were told to try to patch up some of their systems, to make sure that these countries can't get in there. But I think you're right. I mean, one of the things that people like Ratcliffe have tried to emphasize is, you know, the activity by countries that are trained and meant to damage President Trump, not so much the activity that the Russians are doing, and we know that they are doing it to try to support and prop up President Trump's campaign. They want President Trump to win. That's the assessment of the Intelligence Community. We didn't hear so much of that from this press conference today. And I think you heard from Chris Wray, his point is simply that you know, President -- the American voters need to be careful about what information they're getting online and what they're spreading.</s>COOPER: All right, Evan Perez, Appreciate it. Evan, stick around and I'm sure you'll be getting more information as we talk. Joining us now former F.B.I. Director -- Deputy Director and CNN contributor, Andrew McCabe; CNN election law analyst Rick Hasen; CNN political director, David Chalian, and CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem. Andrew, what do you make of this announcement? How it was done? What you heard from them? Again, because I'm -- it sounds like I did not see this press conference. So but it sounds like they didn't really go into detail on Russia. But the D.N.I. is saying that this Iran activity of threatening Democratic voters was designed to hurt Trump. I don't know if he spoke about the attempted effect on Biden's campaign?</s>ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, that's a great question. I think there's a number of things that kind of reached out to us here. I think just provisionally the fact that they held this press conference about election meddling by foreign powers so close to the election itself shows you how far we've come from 2016. This is exactly the sort of thing that was considered in 2016, and of course, the administration opted not to go very forcefully proactively with the statement about Russian meddling and there has been a lot of criticism of that decision in the aftermath. So I think what you're seeing now is an Intelligence community, certainly an F.B.I. and joined by the D.N.I. tonight, trying to lean a little further forward to have that sort of inoculation effect on the electorate to let people know that they should be skeptical consumers of information that they see online. Whether or not the D.N.I.'s comments about Iran and the purpose of the Iranian meddling and whether or not they were trying to help or hurt President Trump, quite frankly, I'd like to see more about that. There should be really solid analysis underpinning that judgment and I just don't think we've gotten enough of that detail from the information that was shared with the press this evening.</s>COOPER: Juliette, I mean, the Trump administration, particularly D.N.I. Ratcliffe, who, you know, has been downplaying potential Russian efforts, and I don't want to make this political, but it just jumps out at me at this stage right away, they are not really talking about Russian efforts and they are talking about the Iranian efforts as being somehow against President Trump, when those e-mails that were sent out to Democratic voters threatening them, telling them to vote for Trump. I get sort of the three-dimensional chess of it, it sort of, in a roundabout way hurts President Trump because people think it's the Proud Boys and therefore link it to Trump. But it is also just trying to scare Democrats about voting for Joe Biden.</s>JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's -- that would be what a rational person would believe, so I don't think we need to apologize for being politically skeptical about Ratcliffe at this stage. You know, he doesn't deserve the luxury of apolitical-ness at the stage, given what he has done over the last couple of weeks to make it clear that they view for example, some of the Russian disinformation about Biden as accurate. So I'm not going to you know -- so I sort of view Ratcliffe as different. I think the fact is, as Andrew McCabe said, you know, the fact that the Deputy Director was there -- I mean the director of the F.B.I. and others were there. My takeaway is this: other countries are messing with us. They are getting caught easily let's remember this now. They knew that they were going to get caught. This is a public disinformation campaign to mess with us. The purpose of doing it clearly was to go after Democrats. I don't quite get how this hurts Donald Trump and fourth, and here is the good news. It was -- it was acknowledged. There was a press conference. We're preparing the American public. We're preparing the state and locals and there is no evidence that votes were changed.</s>KAYYEM: So I look at the good news come for the next two weeks, and I do think that this was an important statement. And I think what we have to remember is the Iranians and possibly the Russians know they are getting caught at this stage. So this is just a little bit of mind games going on right now that we just have to fight back with equal mind games, so to speak.</s>COOPER: Before we go to everyone else, I just want to bring back in Evan Perez. Evan, I understand you've got something.</s>PEREZ: No, Anderson. I mean, I think what Juliet Kayyem is underscoring is very important here, because I think you're right. There's a lot of information that we don't have about what exactly the F.B.I. and what the Intelligence Community has that sort of explains more about this activity, and certainly what the Russians are doing. I think, one of the things that I think the guests were pointing out was the fact the importance of having the F.B.I. Director there, and some of the other officials simply because Ratcliffe has been seen as such a politically partisan person. And I think this was to give confidence to the voters, especially Democrats that what's being heard here is the real deal.</s>COOPER: Rick, I want to play some of what we heard from director of National Intelligence, Ratcliffe. Let's listen.</s>JOHN RATCLIFFE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: We have confirmed that some voter registration information has been obtained by Iran and separately by Russia. This data can be used by foreign actors to attempt to communicate false information to registered voters that they hope will cause confusion, sow chaos, and undermine your confidence in American democracy. To that end, we have already seen Iran sending spoofed e-mails designed to intimidate voters, incite social unrest and damage President Trump.</s>COOPER: What we've heard tonight from the F.B.I. from the</s>D.N.I. RICHARD L. HASEN, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: So this is, you know, if you listen to that word "obtain," almost anyone can obtain voter registration information. It's not clear to me from this statement that what we have here is the same as what we had in 2016, which was the Russians using phishing activities to be able to break into state voter registration databases and sniff around and I think, undermine voter confidence that our election systems are secure. This may have simply been buying or downloading from the internet, which you can do voter information, including party registration information, then perhaps the Iranians took that party registration information, looked for Democrats and sent out these Proud Boys e- mails. So it's really cryptic. We don't know exactly what's going on. But you know, it's being portrayed potentially as hacking. It's not necessarily hacking at this point. It is an attempt to try to sow discord and disinformation. I do think, to that extent, it is a good thing that the F.B.I. is getting out in front. I'm not sure why they needed to call a press conference so quickly, and didn't want to just hit it in the next morning.</s>COOPER: David Chalian, politically, any kind of impact, you think?</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I think you're right to be skeptical around the politics around this. I'm not sure why it matters right now, in terms of these officials trying to communicate to voters and make them aware that these foreign entities are trying to interfere with the election. Why it matters who they are trying to help politically right now. What matters is getting that information out so that voters are aware to be suspect when they see some phishing e-mail, you know, that is trying to influence their vote or create division. That's what's important, far more so than this notion that Ratcliffe is putting out there about Iran trying to hurt Trump. I just don't think we have enough information about that to understand whether they're doing that in some way that actually has electoral impact.</s>COOPER: Yes, I just found it interesting that that's the kind of the spin, Juliette that he is putting on at this stage. But I think the point is absolutely right. What's important is not so much the spin anybody is putting on it, it's just the facts of what actually happened and we don't really know, a lot of details, certainly on the Russian's side at this point, Juliette.</s>KAYYEM: Yes, that's exactly right. But I want to just remind people, why are the Proud Boys known and why are the -- why is a foreign agency or foreign intelligence agency or presumably whoever it may be in the interim, utilizing them as a proxy for Donald Trump? So foreign intelligence agencies watch our debates as well. They learn, they know about conspiracy theories about groups that the President supports about white supremacy groups that the President aligns himself with, and takes days to sort of try to separate himself. So there's a bigger story here, which we've all been sending over the course of years. We're not the only ones, you know, freaking out or disturbed by President Trump's behavior, National Security behavior. There are foreign intelligence agencies to know exactly, right, here is this group that no one has ever heard of, a white supremacy group presumably aligned with Trump. We're going to use their e-mails to go after, to scare Democrats. That to me is -- you know, that begins with Donald Trump at a debate not condemning a white supremacy group that some Democrats may be afraid of.</s>KAYYEM: We don't know who these Democrats. Are they African-Americans who are worried about a white supremacy group? Old women who are worried about being alone? So you know, so this is -- they are playing -- you know, if Donald Trump lives by disinformation, he will also be harmed by disinformation. And that's what we're seeing, so I'm really glad that legitimate people in the Intelligence Community came out. I don't know if it had to be tonight. I'm really glad that they came out and said, stop messing around, and alerted us that we're just a little bit smarter. We were the audience.</s>COOPER: Andrew, just in terms of what the U.S. has been doing the last several years in the wake of 2016 to prepare for and try to stop Russian interference in other countries interference. Obviously, there has been a lot of reporting over the last three years of President Trump not wanting to hear his people bring up Russia, briefers being told don't bring up Russia, because Russia immediately to him equates to that, you know, as an attempt to de legitimize him as a President. There was reporting, you know, I think it was Kirstjen Nielsen who was told not to bring up Russia stuff. So what has been done? Because the complaint has been that if the President of the United States is not the one sending out the message that countering disinformation -- you know, if it's not coming from the top, it's not as you know, as what Vice President Pence would call, it is not a whole of government effort to stop this stuff.</s>MCCABE: Well, that's absolutely right, Anderson, and this is a threat that is so significant that it should be led by the President of the United States. It should be championed by, you know, our leaders on Capitol Hill. It should have been supported with legislation and proactive measures, which it certainly was not. Nevertheless, I'm quite sure that the F.B.I. and the rest of the Intelligence Community has been assiduously working it. You need to know that in 2016, we were literally learning these things as we went. This is the first time we'd ever seen interference on this level. We stood by and watched while the Russians probed the voter registration systems in every single state, and that is not an insignificant thing. It's not just about changing the vote tallies on Election Night, but if a foreign actor can get into the registration system and actually eliminate records, they can shift the balance of who is able to cast a vote. So it is still an insidious threat, and I'm quite sure that the F.B.I., D.H.S. and the rest of their partners have spent a lot of time learning about how these systems work, finding vulnerabilities in different states systems, coaching states and companies that produce electoral infrastructure on how to kind of bolster their ability to defend from a cyberattack. But we all know that cyberattacks change every single day. The threat vector is constantly shifting, and if you're not on top of it today and tomorrow, you're behind the game and you're going to get burned.</s>COOPER: I want to play a bit of what F.B.I. Director Christopher Wray had to say. He did not echo that these efforts were meant to damage President Trump, I understand and if anything, almost seem to counter the President's claims that there will be issues with absentee or mail-in voting. Let's listen.</s>CHRISTOPHER WRAY, F.B.I. DIRECTOR: We've been working for years as a community to build resilience in our election infrastructure, and today, that infrastructure remains resilient. You should be confident that your vote counts. Early unverified claims to the contrary should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism.</s>COOPER: Andrew, I mean, he struck a very different tone than D.N.I. Ratcliffe. What's also interesting is that if the disinformation campaign -- if part of the message is foreign actors can send in ballots and mail-in ballots, the irony is that's nothing that the President of the United States hasn't been claiming and what the F.B.I. Director just there is saying is, you know, don't listen to the disinformation coming from Russia or Iran that mail-in ballots are, you know, are vulnerable to foreign interference. But he is also essentially saying the President, you know, has been spreading this stuff and don't listen to that this information either.</s>MCCABE: You know, you have to give him credit. I think that it could be a very -- the next Homeland's session with the President could be like a really awkward Thanksgiving dinner where half the family hates the other half. There is no question that you could easily interpret the Director's comments there as a refutation of the consistent attacks that this President has levied in the last few weeks on our voting system. You know, do not mistake that Christopher Wray is a very careful, a very smart lawyer. He is not someone who is prone to hyperbole or overstate things. That is a very strong statement from him. It is in direct contradiction to the things that we've heard the President say, and that could create some really awkward and pressure filled moments as we go forward.</s>COOPER: Yes, it's fascinating to watch this in real time. I want to thank you all. I want to bring in someone who felt the brunt of foreign election interference four years ago, John Podesta, obviously ran Hillary Clinton's campaign joins us now. Mr. Podesta, obviously Hillary Clinton campaign was the focus of Russian interference in 2016. I wonder what your reaction is to what we were hearing tonight from the F.B.I. and from the D.N.I.?</s>JOHN PODESTA, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: Well, Anderson, first of all, I'm glad that you're out there and you're saying something about it. Obviously, they put quite different spins on the information they put before the American public. And, as has been noted, by Juliette, I think that John Ratcliffe doesn't have a whole lot of credibility. He has acted in a political way as D.N.I. And I think that's actually damaging, too.</s>COOPER: I mean, he is a politician. He's not a person from the Intelligence Community who has spent a lifetime, you know, focusing on Intelligence and being non-partisan.</s>PODESTA: But nevertheless, I think it's good to have the fact that there is foreign interference going on. You know, we have the story earlier that the President was informed that a Russian agent, Andriy Derkach was feeding Russian disinformation to Rudy Giuliani. His reaction was, "Bring it on." You know, so we've had a President who has really done everything he can to actually solicit information, and now if it's coming from the Iranians, maybe he has second thoughts about that, but, you know, he has not done what he needed to do to try to protect American democracy and Americans from foreign interference in the election.</s>COOPER: It does really strike me and I mean, I just said this to Andrew, but that what Chris Wray was trying to counter was not only the disinformation coming from whether it's Iran or Russia, about mail-in balloting and voting, it's also disinformation coming from our own President.</s>PODESTA: Well, you know, he has been peddling this for months. I think he is trying to set up a context in which he can somehow after the fact, if he loses claim that the election was unfair, there's no evidence of that. Chris Wray has testified to that on Capitol Hill, and had been scolded by the President for stating what his professional opinion was. So, you know, again, none of this should be particularly surprising when it comes to the President's behavior. But I think what we need to do is rely on the factual information from the non-political elements of our Intelligence Community to help warn both our election officials and also reassure voters, their votes. They can vote, they have a plan to vote, cast your vote, your vote will be counted, and the systems will be protected. And guess what? There are a lot of good professionals overlooking that system and trying to make sure that that's exactly what the result is.</s>COOPER: Do you see this as a big change in terms of how certainly the F.B.I., and, you know, with the decisions that were made back in 2016 about being so close to the election, and you know, whether to go public with what the Intelligence Community knew or not?</s>PODESTA: Yes, well, look, I think it's a sea change from what we saw in 2016. And you know, the great irony there was, Jim Comey didn't want to -- said he didn't want to interfere with the election, so he wouldn't sign on to the statement that was released by the rest of the Intelligence Community on that Russians were interfering in the election and then turned around 10 days before the election and reopened the e-mail case and I think did a lot of damage to Secretary Clinton.</s>PODESTA: So Comey was sort of schizophrenic about it. I'm glad that Chris Wray is taking the position that he is going to let the American people know what's going on.</s>COOPER: We actually have some breaking news on this. John Podesta, thank you very much. We've got a new reporting in "The Washington Post" concerning F.B.I. Director Christopher Wray in what is reportedly the President's growing frustration that Ray is not delivering the kind of election boost with investigations that he has been openly calling for. Josh Dawsey shares the byline, joining us by phone. What on Earth now is going on? What have you learned?</s>JOSH DAWSEY, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST" (via phone): Well, President Trump is frustrated that Christopher Wray has not backed him on his claims of voter fraud, on Antifa, and now, on Hunter Biden and you know, you saw the letter last night from Christopher Wray, where he said that the F.B.I. had nothing more to add and was following the precedent of the I.G., from, you know, the Comey investigation in 2016. And, you know, they've been reticent to do what the President has wanted them to do publicly. He has called repeatedly for investigations into, you know, Hunter Biden. He has Joe Biden a criminal without offering any substantial evidence to that claim. And his law enforcement bodies are now coming under pure scrutiny from the President. I mean, the President has been disenchanted, disillusioned, dispirited, whatever you would say about Chris Wray for many months, but the F.B.I.'s handling of -- or lack of a public statement or lack of any sort of indication that they are investigating, you know, Hunter Biden and these different revelations has really frustrated the President. And a number of aides in the White House and across the government today told us that after the election, you know, Christopher Wray is likely to be removed as F.B.I. Director no matter how it ends.</s>COOPER: So if this is something the President wants to do after the election, is that regardless of whether he wins or loses? I mean, obviously, if the President loses, he will be a lame duck, but I guess he can still fire the F.B.I. Director.</s>DAWSEY: We were told that it's a high possibility either way. You know, he will have the time from November until January if he loses. Obviously, if he wins, he will have, you know, four more years. And the F.B.I. Director, you know, serve extended terms that are past one presidency. The President obviously fired Jim Comey and Christopher Wray, he has embarked to a number of other advisers, one outdates the others that it was a poor personnel decision and he wants a new F.B.I. Director. And, you know, our indications from across the government, as I said, Anderson are that, he is looking for a new F.B.I. Director one way or the other after the election.</s>COOPER: Josh Dawsey, fascinating reporting. Appreciate it as always. Thank you. I want to go back to former F.B.I. Director Andrew McCabe who has been listening in. Andrew, I mean, the irony of this is kind of extraordinary. We were just discussing Christopher Wray as being a straight shooter and, you know, very clear tonight in his comments, basically not sort of following the line of the very political Director of National Intelligence in the way he was characterizing the interference that they say is going on from Iran and Russia. You know, all about President Trump's habits of firing people. The F.B.I. -- I am told that Andrew's shot went down, so we'll try to get back with the former Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. Tonight's other big story is former President Obama going after President Trump in a way we've never heard from an ex-President before and how it and everything else factors into tomorrow's night's presidential debate. We will have that when we come back.

U.S. Government Files Lawsuit Against Google; New Technology Helps Ocean Researchers.

CARL AZUZ, CNN 10 ANCHOR: An underwater research station, today on CNN 10, we`re going to explore that in depth. Get it? I`m Carl Azuz. That story is just a few minutes away. First, though, the U.S. government is suing the Google technology company and 11 states have joined the lawsuit. Here`s what this is about. The United States has antitrust laws designed to keep American businesses from having too much power. The U.S. Justice Department says Google has broken those laws in part by keeping competitors from getting a foothold in the online search business. This could prevent Americans from ever getting to see the next Google, the next major search company, according to the Justice Department. But Google believes the lawsuit is deeply flawed. It says people use its search engine because they choose, not because they`re forced to or because they can`t find alternatives. Those alternatives include Bing and Yahoo and DuckDuckGo. But 90 percent of all Internet searches are made on Google. European officials have also fined Google billions of dollars for allegedly preventing competition. The company has appealed those finds and says it`s made changes to address concerns in Europe. But Google isn`t alone in these investigations. A recent U.S. congressional report says several major tech companies have too much power. It accuses Amazon of mistreating third party sellers. Apple preventing competition in its App Store. Facebook buying popular apps like Instagram and WhatsApp to prevent these companies from eventually competing with Facebook. All of these businesses have denied doing anything illegal. They`ve said they`re successful because of their usefulness and popularity, not because they`re trying to monopolize their industry. The suit involving Google is the largest antitrust case against the tech company in more than two decades and it could be years before it`s decided. A 1998 lawsuit between the U.S. government and Microsoft eventually led to limits on Microsoft`s software business.</s>AZUZ (voice-over): Ten-second trivia: Which of these literary characters was the first to appear in print? Captain Nemo, Robinson Crusoe, Horatio Hornblower or Captain Ahab? Castaway Robinson Crusoe first appeared in Daniel Defoe`s novel in 1719.</s>AZUZ: NASA currently has five active missions to Mars. There`s a sixth one in partisanship with European Space Agency. We told you yesterday how there are plans to put 4G wireless technology on the moon, assuming a base gets built there. But experts estimate that more than 80 percent of the Earth`s oceans have never been explored. Why are there so many efforts to map out other planets like Mars and Venus when we haven`t followed map out our own. One reason critics say is because it`s expensive. We don`t have a technology to build a research station that can withstand deep ocean pressures, and even if we did, it will reportedly cost more to do that than to put one on the moon. Another reason is that some parts of the remote ocean floor that people had observed don`t have a lot of features. It`s like a desert, except for the strange creatures that sometimes float by. But supporters of ocean research are developing new keys to unlock the secrets of the sea.</s>FABIEN COUSTEAU, FCOLC: For me, the ocean is home, and it`s always been a source of curiosity. I feel more at home in the ocean than I do on land. For many reasons -- simply for the beauty of it, for the wow factor of an alien world. For the pragmatic reason to be able to answer questions that we simply don`t have answers to.</s>SUBTITLE: The Aquanaut.</s>REPORTER: In 2014, Fabien Cousteau and his crew spent 31 days living under the ocean, on an expedition called Mission 31. And he did so on this -- an underwater habitat known as Aquarius.</s>COUSTEAU: From a very young age, I was exposed to the underwater world. I`ve been scuba diving since my fourth birthday. Been on expeditions with my family since I was seven.</s>REPORTER: Fabien comes from a family of out-of-the-box thinkers. You may be familiar with his grandfather, Jacques Cousteau, the late explore and innovator who pioneered underwater exploration technology. His most popular invention was a regulator valve for diving. It allowed humans to breathe underwater using an air tank. He called it the aqua lung, but we simply refer to it as a scuba. But even for Jacques, the ultimate dream was life aquatic. So in came Conshelf 1, the first ever underwater station that allowed him to live underwater for several days. It laid the framework for subsequent ocean habitats.</s>COUSTEAU: One of the really neat points of Mission 31 based out of Aquarius is that for the first time on a Cousteau expedition, we had Wi-Fi at the bottom of the sea. It was arguably better than my apartment in New York City. So we were able to reach over 100,000 students live through Skyping the classroom sessions and other platforms, to really be able to show them both inside the habitat, which is pretty cool. It`s like the International Space Station. And outside the habitat, all the critters and all the sea life, that fireworks display of activity that we`re studying. I`m a firm believer that humans and technology must work together and one of the things that we`re missing is a modern undersea laboratory, a modern undersea habitat.</s>REPORTER: And so a bigger, better, more advanced underwater habitat is already in the works. And its name is Project Proteus.</s>COUSTEAU: We`re planning on building something that is seven times or more the size of any other previous habitat in history. That allows for us for much longer deployments, larger teams. To be able to bring that to the bottom of the sea is absolutely paramount.</s>REPORTER: Cousteau is just one of many modern thinkers, building up and imagining the future of ocean technology. Architects are reshaping the way we interact with the great blue too.</s>COUSTEAU: The famous Jacques Rougerie, who pioneered some of the underwater habitats.</s>REPORTER: Belgian architect Vincent Callebaut has also conceptualized underwater Oceanscrapers, while Danish firm BIG has imagined entire floating cities. We may travel deeper than ever before, without physically moving out of our seats. Cousteau points to breakthroughs in automation and underwater mobility that could take us further than the naked eye can see.</s>COUSTEAU: AUV`s or autonomous vehicles are amazing. They have a very practical reason. They are able to go places for longer periods of time without having to have a human being on them.</s>REPORTER: And just like Jules Verne`s Nautilus, powering up these vehicles may one day be electric, and even renewable.</s>COUSTEAU: There`s enough energy that could be extracted from the ocean to power the world`s current needs without creating significant environmental impact. One such piece of technology is called</s>OTEC: ocean thermal energy conversion. OTEC converts the cold water temperature from the deep water to the fairly warm surface temperature to create energy. Imagine how amazing that piece of technology could be to help solving some of the climate change related issues. As we continue to develop, as we continue to expand, as we continue to add more peopled on this planet, that will need that energy.</s>REPORTER: So, where does that leave us now? Will these breakthroughs take us further and deeper into the ocean and like Cousteau, we may one day find ourselves living there? Well, maybe not just yet.</s>COUSTEAU: It is absolutely possible. Is it desirable? That is something I`m on the fence on.</s>REPORTER: For now, just like his grandfather, the future of technology lays ion exploring this untouched frontier.</s>COUSTEAU: My grandfather, he was a pioneer. He inspired hundreds of millions around the world for over five decades. It opens my eyes to what is possible out there, hat does need to happen and what should be learned from our ocean world.</s>AZUZ: Here`s a Halloween decoration that`s both the trick and the treat. It`s a treat to see amusing you`re not afraid of absolutely horrifying green man-eating spiders. It`s a trick from a retired toymaker who used a crane and a lot of ingenuity to build this disturbing decoration outside his home in upstate New York. He says 2020 was the perfect time to do this. But poor Little Miss Muffet, I mean, she`d have a heart attack if that spider sat down beside her. It would send anyone wandering away. It took a Tarantu-lot of work to build. It wouldn`t fit in any cellar. I mean, in that size, that thing can be anything but reclusive. I`m Carl Azuz. You know what? That Lakeville, Connecticut, is beautiful this time of year. It`s where we found Indian Mountain School. Thank you for subscribing and commenting at YouTube.com/CNN10. END

President Trump Barnstorming States; Joe Biden Prepares for the Big Night; Polls Show People Want Fresh Face; Millions Voted Two Weeks Before Elections; U.S. Infections and Hospitalizations on the Rise

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. You are watching CNN Newsroom. And I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead, with America's fate on the ballot, U.S. President Donald Trump is making a familiar final pitch to voters, attacking, dismissing and vowing to deliver epic prosperity and growth. Plus, this.</s>BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Despite the failure to reach the agreement. I hope the mayor and council leaders in Greater Manchester will now work with us.</s>CHURCH: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is accused of bullying after placing Greater Manchester under some of the U.K.'s toughest COVID-19 restrictions. And later, northern India is facing a double winter health threat. Pollution, and the pandemic. With less than two weeks to go until election day in the United States, the presidential candidates are taking a very different approach to the campaign. Democrat Joe Biden spent Tuesday preparing for Thursday's final presidential debate, President Donald Trump meantime, surrounded himself with supporters at a rally in the battleground state of Pennsylvania. He said Pennsylvania picked him in 2016, because they wanted to oust the political establishment. He also said Barack Obama and Biden were part of the reason why he ran for president in the first place.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If they did a good job, I would not have run.</s>TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.</s>CHURCH: The president also touted his economic plan and claimed that Biden would ban fracking and destroy energy jobs in Pennsylvania. And even though the COVID-19 cases are soaring across the country, Mr. Trump tried to convince his supporters that he has the pandemic under control.</s>TRUMP: We are rounding the turn on the pandemic. Epic job growth, safe vaccines, that quickly end the pandemic.</s>TRUMP: It's ending. Normal life, that is all we want. What do we want? Normal life.</s>CHURCH: CNN's Kaitlan Collins was in Erie, Pennsylvania as Mr. Trump rally his supporters. She has more on that campaign stop.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As the president was rallying his supporters in Pennsylvania on Tuesday night with two weeks to go before the election, he had at one point seemed to recognize the dire position he's in when it comes to political polling. Because he said if it had been before the pandemic, he likely wouldn't have even been in Erie, Pennsylvania. He basically told the crowd he had to show up given that his poll numbers right now are behind those of Joe Biden in Pennsylvania, a state that he carried in 2016. That rally came just a few hours after the president had sat down with CBS's Lesley Stahl at the White House for an interview for 60 Minutes at which we are told the president ended the interview before it was scheduled to be done, after about 45 minutes because he grew frustrated with the line of questioning from Stahl. And we're told he left the room and did not come back to do what was supposed to be a taped portion of the interview with the Vice President, Mike Pence. And of course, then you saw the president go on Twitter. He taunted Lesley Stahl for at one point during the briefing -- or during the interview not wearing a mask. And then he threatened to release the interview before CBS News airs it next Sunday. Of course whether or not he ultimately does still seems remains to be seen, but what you are seeing with these two weeks to go before the election is the president is making his closing message attacks on reporters like CBS News, attacks on other reporters as well, including the debate moderator for Thursday night for that final presidential debate, but also on Dr. Anthony Fauci, someone he has repeatedly gone after in recent days. And this is not exactly the closing political message that aides had hoped he would have, given the fact that he is trailing Joe Biden in so many states with so few days left to go. Kaitlan Collins, CNN, traveling with the president in Pennsylvania.</s>CHURCH: Well, Joe Biden also has a full week of events and appearances before Thursday's debate. And he is calling on some influential friends for help. Cindy McCain, widow of longtime Republican, John McCain hosted a republican veteran's event for Biden on Tuesday. McCain announced her support for Biden back in September. And former President Barack Obama will make his first campaign trail appearance for Biden in Pennsylvania today. Prior to a drive-in rally in Philadelphia, the former president released a video, urging voters to remember the value of their vote.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We can come out of this moment stronger than before. Voting doesn't accomplish that on its own, but we can't accomplish that without voting. I know there are plenty out there to make people feel cynical, and plenty of people are going to seize on that to convince you that your vote does not matter. It's not new, it is one of the oldest voter suppression tactics there is. What is new, it's a growing movement for justice, equality and progress on so many issues. This is really a tipping point, and that momentum only continues if we win this election.</s>CHURCH: And more than 32 million Americans have already cast ballots in this election, shattering early voting records. CNN's Abby Phillips takes a look at the casting these votes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't procrastinate. Vote early.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just two weeks to go, and it appears that's the way many Americans are feeling about this 2020 election.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really want to get it done and over with, and do it early, that way I know I've voted.</s>PHILLIP: So far more than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide, whether by mail or in-person. On the first day of in- person voting in Wisconsin, voters braving hours long lines and rising COVID numbers.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion, that's what America is about.</s>PHILLIP: Huge lines, snaking around entire buildings or down city blocks, becoming a familiar sight all over the country. Many voters even lining up before sunrise, rain or shine. Pending legal challenges in several states including some battleground states are far from over.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's one of the most important elections, obviously. There's so much riding on the line.</s>PHILLIP: In Pennsylvania, the Supreme Court ruling on Monday, the state can count mail-in ballots if they are sent in by election day, and received within three days even if they do not have a legible postmark. Something the president is already attacking.</s>TRUMP: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. What kind of a thing, so what does that mean we're going to wait --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Roberts --</s>TRUMP: -- we're going to wait till after November 3rd, and start announcing states, that's crazy.</s>PHILLIP: Pennsylvania state law says the counting of absentee ballots cannot begin until election day, which combines with the court ruling allowing ballots to be received three days after election day, means, we may not know the results of the presidential race for several days after November 3rd.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You won't have the precise numbers certainly for a few days, but I think you're going to have a sense of where things are going.</s>PHILLIP: Meanwhile, in North Carolina the state elections board are now extending the deadlines to accept mail-in ballots, postmarked by election day through November 12, more than a week after the election. But the legal battle is still ongoing, as of this morning in North Carolina, 1.9 million ballots have been cast. That represents 25 percent of the states registered voters. And in Florida, voters are turning out in droves on the first day of early in-person voting. The state says more than 366,000 Floridians cast votes Monday. By this morning Florida was just shy of three million ballots cast overall. The same time, four years ago, Florida has just over 1.6 million total ballots cast.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you're not going to vote don't complain for the next four years. That's the way I look at it.</s>PHILLIP: Abby Phillip, CNN, Washington.</s>CHURCH: Joining me now is CNN senior political analyst, David Gergen. He's also a formal presidential adviser to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton. Thank you so much, sir, for talking with us.</s>DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you. It's a privilege.</s>CHURCH: So, two weeks away from this critical election and early voting and started in battleground states like Wisconsin, Florida, Georgia and elsewhere. People lining up despite the pandemic, casting 32 million early votes. So far, showing historic turnout, what does that signal to you?</s>GERGEN: Well, on the surface, it signals that the Democrats are doing much better than expected. The early returns that we talk about that we're so feeling massively to the extent that we know the contents of the ballots, they seem to favor Democrats over Republicans. Republicans apparently are holding their fire, will vote in greater numbers on election day two weeks from now. But I do think that in contrast the earlier news this year when it was the Republicans who are raising the registration numbers faster than the Democrats were, it was Republicans who are saying that they could be charging out of the gate. But now, the momentum is clearly over to the Democrats. They have an avalanche of money coming in, the polls were there where really steadily ahead. The latest New York Times poll, one of the most respective has come out in the last 24 hours with Biden holding a 9- point lead. A little bit has been shaved off, but not very much. And, very importantly, the new polling also shows that on these issues, Biden has more support on the issues than Trump does on the pandemic, and even the economy. For the president, that's not saying, he is a really good closure, as we all know. You can't count him out. There are a lot of votes out there that may be hidden, but at this moment, every indication is that Joe Biden is sitting on in a big lead, and could conceivably could win a very, very big victory.</s>CHURCH: All right, as you pointed out, all reputable national polls putting Joe Biden in the lead. You referenced that New York Times/Sienna College poll.</s>GERGEN: Right.</s>CHURCH: Let's bring that up. Fifty percent to Joe Biden in support, 41 percent to Donald Trump. Do you see any path to victory for Donald Trump, at this juncture?</s>GERGEN: Well, he has won more bite at the apple on debates, that's coming Thursday night, tomorrow night. And on that, you know, there have been essentially two debates. One presidential, one vice presidential, and then one head to head town hall -- there have been three of these big events so far. So, far the Biden team has won every single one by political -- by what the polls show. But public opinion runs. This last and final debate is the last chance that Trump has to turn the election around in a debating circle.</s>CHURCH: And then, on Tuesday, President Trump abruptly ended an interview with Lesley Stahl on 60 Minutes --</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: -- and skip a scheduled joint interview with Vice President Mike Pence. Ironically, the president later attacked Stahl for not wearing a mask. What did you make of all of that?</s>GERGEN: I didn't make much of it. There have been so many erratic moves by this president, especially since he was diagnosed with COVID. It's almost he's little, I do not know whether he is under the influence, if he is taking drugs or not taking any drugs, it is hard to tell. But I can tell you that his judgment has been salty. He is not good at the policy issue in a way but he has been very good as a state master, you know, capturing the public's attention. And then this time around, whatever he tries, it doesn't seem to work. It's almost as if people are really, you know, a great TV series, can often end after five or six seasons that people become bored, you know, it's repetitive. And they start looking for something else -- well, yes, I think that Trump may have run out here, and people are looking for something fresher, and they -- they would prefer to be healed by Biden than sort of going on another joyride with Trump for four years.</s>CHURCH: Right. And the former special ops commander, William McRaven who oversaw the Osama Bin Laden raid --</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: -- said he voted for Joe Biden. The retired U.S. four-star admiral says, the world no longer looks up to America because of the actions of Donald Trump.</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: There's also an ad put together by officials who worked under formal Republican President George W. Bush, endorsing Biden, and very influential GOP senators are also --</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: -- distancing themselves from Trump. I mean, this is almost unheard of, isn't it?</s>GERGEN: It is.</s>CHURCH: What is the significance of all of this?</s>GERGEN: It means the dam is breaking. A lot of people have been very unhappy and frustrated with the president but have kept their own counsel, tried not to get in the way and hope he would turn around. (Inaudible). There's just really no one who believes that he is going to be -- turn out to be a new Donald Trump for the next 14 days. He is what he is. And he is going to ride it out. It looks like he is going to write it down to defeat. But, again, be careful about this. The Republicans might have a couple of tricks up their sleeves. They may be able to bring up the numbers. Right now, though, Joe Biden is winning because frankly, he's running a much better campaign.</s>CHURCH: David Gergen, always a pleasure to get your analysis.</s>GERGEN: Thanks, Rosemary. Goof to talk to you again.</s>CHURCH: You too. And be sure to tune in to CNN for the final presidential debate. Our coverage begins at 7 p.m. on Eastern on Thursday, that is 12 a.m. in London, 7 a.m. in Hong Kong on Friday. Well, coronavirus cases in the United States are accelerating at an alarming rate. More than 400,000 new infections were reported in the last week alone. That is the highest weekly total since early August. A new report says the virus is rapidly spreading among children across the nation. Over the past two weeks, more than 84,000 children caught the virus. That's a rise of 13 percent, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. But it's not just the U.S. striking. Cases and deaths are soaring across Europe. The Czech Republic is building a field hospital in Prague, as the country battles a surging infection rate. And new restrictions are coming to southern Italy, the region around Naples will begin a curfew at 11 p.m. on Friday. Well, the U.K. is still waiting on ethics approval for human challenge trials on new COVID vaccines. The trials will involve directly infecting a volunteer with COVID-19 as opposed to clinical trials where participants are vaccinated and observed. My colleague, Becky Anderson spoke with the chief scientist for the company leading the trials who says, their main goal is to keep all participants as safe as possible.</s>ANDREW CATCHPOLE, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC OFFICER, HVIVO: The main risks for any clinical trials are that the disease progresses further than we anticipated, which is why we are doing a number of factors to minimize those risks. Firstly, having an extremely low dose of virus, and then we're using only subjects which have minimal risk or no known risk factors for the disease, as well as and also using antivirals as a preemptive measure to further minimize the risk of severe disease.</s>CHURCH: And he went on to say, vaccines usually go through multiple iterations before more effective or becoming more effective with time. Human challenge trials are just one way of telling which vaccine maybe most useful. Well, Ireland is now gearing up to begin its second nationwide lockdown in an attempt to regain control of the coronavirus. The country will move to the strictest level of restrictions, and urge residents to stay home and for the next six weeks. It comes within days of the nation reporting its highest daily death toll since May. And for more, CNN's Nic Robertson joins me now from London. Good to see you, Nic. So, a six-week lockdown, is a very strange solution. Were face masks ever seen as a viable alternative?</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Face masks certainly coming in for attention right now in Ireland, being -- people are being told that they should wear those when they're in confined public spaces, that they should wear on public transport, but of course these latest restrictions really go way beyond now just, you know, telling people to wear face masks indoors or outdoors. What the Irish government is saying right now is that they want people to effectively go into what they're describing, what the Taoiseach the prime minister there described as the toughest lockdown in Europe. Only those who cannot work from home can go out to work. They -- people should not combine households indoors or in private gardens. Pubs, bars, restaurants, will all be closed. There will only be take away services. Retails stores all but the essential retail stores will close down. And perhaps one of the toughest things for people is they will be restricted to within five kilometers, about three miles of their homes. And that's for exercise. This is very tough and of course it's a real concern about jobs that's impacting people. And the retail sector having gone through a lockdown once they are really wondering if they can survive the next one.</s>CHURCH: All right. Nic Robertson, many thanks, joining us live from London. I appreciate that. And still to come, push back over restrictions as parts of Northern England face tough new coronavirus rules. Manchester's mayor is slamming the government for its handling of the crisis.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot trust anyone. And the person you gave all your life these things from here, life is finished.</s>CHURCH: And victims of domestic abuse are left few choices as the pandemic forces many to stay with their abusers. Their stories when we return.

Tier Three Imposed on Greater Manchester; Pandemic Worsen Domestic Abuse

CHURCH: Ireland is now the first E.U. country to return to a coronavirus lockdown. And several cities around the world are weighing heavier restrictions, including lockdowns and stay-at-home orders to try and slow the rate of infection. But for domestic abuse victims, staying home with their abuser has its own dangers. CNN's Isa Soares has some of their stories.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I loved this man more than anything. And I left everything for him.</s>ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Away from her home in Morocco, and beguiled by her new husband.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He made me fall in love with him slowly.</s>SOARES: This 32-year-old woman who prefers to remain anonymous tells me her partner became a different man mid pandemic.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said to me, you have to bring in 4,000 a month.</s>SOARES: With the economy in a deep recession, and a frustrated husband unable to work his usual job as a taxi driver, she says her life became his to control.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hits me too many times. And the last time he gave me two slaps that he (Inaudible) fist. I was losing my mind, because you cannot trust anyone. And the person you gave all your life too these things from here, life is finished.</s>SOARES: She is one of seven other women at this Iranian Kurdish women's refuge who left home during the pandemic, with many more waiting for a room and a guiding hand. The manager here tells me COVID-19 has proven to be the perfect storm.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were intently living together with the perpetrators. There was no time for them to breathe, no time to see friends, relatives, go out. The perpetrators have used their conceive control in more authoritarian way.</s>SOARES: According to women's aide April survey, 78 percent of women living with abusers felt they cannot leave or get away because of the pandemic. Those that do escape face further anxieties, with a backlog in the criminal justice system and limited access to support services or safe havens.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything is definitely taking longer. More uncertainty, more insecurity.</s>SOARES: This 40-year-old Iranian only recently managed to escape a husband of four years.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on screen text): When life was very difficult for me with my husband, one time I tried to leave but didn't manage.</s>SOARES: Not even an attempted suicide that left her in the hospital cleared her path. She did eventually escape just days ago, and now tells me the pandemic only made it worse.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on screen text): When we were arguing with each other, we couldn't take time apart, one of us couldn't leave for a few days.</s>SOARES: He was violent to you? Was he also -- did he also sexually abuse you?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on screen text): Yes. I can't talk about it more because right now I'm seeing a therapist.</s>SOARES: Did the pandemic reveal the real man?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on screen text): Yes.</s>SOARES: Harrowing tales of intimate terrorism at an uncertain time of heightened isolation. Isa Soares, CNN, London.</s>CHURCH: And visit cnn.com to hear more from the women at the shelter, and if you or someone you know is affected by domestic violence, you can get help at nvawnow.org. Well, in Northern England, Prime Minister Boris Johnson is forcing the Greater Manchester region into tougher coronavirus restrictions. He announced the area would move to the tier three alert level after the British government and city's mayor failed to reach an agreement on an economic relief deal. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is live this hour from Manchester. She joins us now. Good to see you, Salma. So what happens next and how likely is it that a nationwide lockdown will have to be put in place in the end?</s>SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: Rosemary, it's truly been a dramatic 10 days here in Manchester. Essentially what happens next is that the government will unilaterally imposed tier three restrictions on the city. That means they will have to shut down pubs, bars, households will be virtually banned from mixing together. This is of course after days of political bickering over a financial package that the mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham says is necessary to help those affected by these tier three restrictions. He wanted to see 80 percent of wages of anyone who's been who has to fall under these restrictions be paid by the government. Now, while the door on negotiations has been closed, the deal over the financial package, according to Secretary Matt Hancock is still open, they are still negotiating the terms of just how much money they'll get. But again, this was just a dramatic day. It started with a deadline. That deadline came and passed. The mayor of Greater Manchester was actually in front of the cameras when he found out that restrictions will go into force on Friday, just past midnight. Take a look at the moment.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a disgrace.</s>MAYOR ANDY BURNHAM, GREATER MANCHESTER, ENGLAND: I mean --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just want to react.</s>BURNHAM: It's brutal to be honest, isn't it? What, this is no way -- this is no way to run the country in a national crisis. It isn't. This is not right. They should not be doing this, grinding people down, trying to accept the least that they can get away with. Twenty-two million pounds to fight the situation we are in is, frankly, disgraceful.</s>ABDELAZIZ: Now he mentions that 22 million pounds, that is the financial package. Now we understand it's actually larger than that that's being offered to the city. Over 60 million pounds plus is being offered to the city. the great -- the mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham again says that's not enough. Those negotiations are still going on. But the restrictions will go into place. But what is really important here is that this sets a precedent for the country. The virus has been spreading through the city very rapidly while these negotiations have been going on. And the question is what is the strategy here? Are you going to go region by region, town by town, bickering over financial packages and the minutia of these measures while the virus spreads through the population? That's why many people are calling for a nationwide lockdown. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has given an unequivocal no to that. He says that he feels a nationwide lockdown would be too punishing. That this regional approach is better. The other question here is one of compliance. A city like Manchester that feels that these rules are being forced upon it by a central government actually follow through. Rosemary?</s>CHURCH: Some tough measures for everyone there. Salma Abdelaziz joining us live from Manchester. Many thanks. And just ahead here on CNN Newsroom, COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations are on the rise across the United States. And now experts are warning of an even worse situation in the weeks ahead. Plus, the Cathay Pacific Airline group hemorrhaging money because of the pandemic. It's the latest to announce thousands of job cuts.

Ex-Head of FDA, Possible Rapid Acceleration of Cases; Race for Vaccine Ramping Up Worldwide; Study Suggests Open Windows, Glass Barriers Can Help Reduce Virus Spread in Classrooms; Pelosi, Mnuchin to Resume Stimulus Talks Today; Cathay Pacific Announces 5,900 Jobs Cuts Globally

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: A grim warning from the former head of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. He says a rapid acceleration of coronavirus cases may be about a week away. In the past week, 14 states reported their highest number ever for hospital admissions for COVID-19. All of this is a sign of the difficult northern winter on the horizon. Here is Brian Todd.</s>BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At this nursing home in northwestern Kansas, an unmitigated disaster. 100 percent of its residents, 62 people, have tested positive for the coronavirus, county health officials say. And 10 residents have died.</s>LEANA WEN, FORMER HEALTH COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE: In congregate settings like nursing homes, this is a disease that could spread like wildfire. And this in fact is what we have seen before in nursing homes and tragically what we are seeing in this nursing home in Kansas as well.</s>TODD: Kansas is one of 31 states trending upward in new coronavirus cases tonight, only one state, Hawaii is dropping and 16 states, nearly a third of the country, are experiencing their highest seven- day averages for new cases since the pandemic began. One expert says the next four or five month's maybe the worst period of the entire pandemic.</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, VACCINE RESEARCHER, DEAN OF THE NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: We are at about 70,000 new cases a day. Probably by next week or the week after, we could be looking at a doubling of the number of deaths by the week after the inauguration.</s>TODD: Dr. Peter Hotez says things will get better by next summer, but that Americans have to get ready for some horrible numbers in the meantime and hang on. In Illinois, one of the states trending up in cases, officials say almost every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID related hospitalizations over the last week. And tighter restrictions on gatherings are coming.</s>STEVE BRANDY, SPOKESMAN, WILL COUNTY ILLINOIS HEALTH DEPARTMENT: It didn't happen by itself. People are being careless. People are getting cocky. People are thinking it's not going to happen to me. It's over. No, that is all wrong.</s>TODD: The Williamsburg section of Brooklyn in New York City is not in a so-called red zone of coronavirus hotspots there. But state officials barred a planned gathering in that neighborhood for the wedding of the grandson of an orthodox Jewish rabbi, a gathering where they say up to 10,000 people were expected to attend.</s>JUDITH HARRISON, ASSISTANT CHIEF, NEW YORK POLICE: We don't want to disrespect anybody. People are allowed to gather, but within reason. We want to make sure that there are no large gatherings in excess of 50 people.</s>TODD: As communities fight off outbreaks, the race for a vaccine gets more intense. The British government is planning to conduct the first so-called human challenge studies, where healthy volunteers are deliberately infected with the virus, and some receive an experimental vaccine. China says nearly 60,000 people have been injected with experimental vaccines during its phase three clinical trials. While in the U.S., the Health and Human Services secretary says officials hope to have enough vaccine by late March or early April to vaccinate everyone in America who wants one. But a leading vaccine expert puts that timetable a bit later.</s>PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Early next year, you will start to see these vaccines rolling out to the highest risk group's first. And then by the middle of next year, the end of next year, hopefully we will then be getting more to the general public.</s>TODD: But the nation's top voice on the coronavirus pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is still worried about Americans not trusting the vaccine. Dr. Fauci predicted that when a safe and effective vaccine becomes available in the U.S., it still going to be a challenge to convince people to take the vaccine. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.</s>CHURCH: So, let's talk about this with Dr. Jorge Rodriguez. He joins me from Los Angeles. Thank you Doctor for talking with us.</s>JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE AND VIRAL SPECIALIST: My pleasure.</s>CHURCH: So this country has lost nearly 221,000 people and 42 states reported an increased in hospitalizations over the past two weeks. Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb says the U.S. is one week away from a rapid acceleration in COVID cases. What needs to be done?</s>RODRIGUEZ: What need to be done is that we really need to start adhering too and believing what has been said now for almost nine months, which is that this virus is here. It's here to stay for a long time and we need to practice the holy trinity which is masks, separation by at least six feet from other people and handwashing. There is no room for error right now. There really isn't.</s>CHURCH: Yes, exactly. And the mayor of Miami Beach is accusing Florida's Governor of pursuing a herd immunity strategy. The very same approach advocated by Dr. Scott Atlas who now advises President Trump. How concerned are you that the Trump administration and governors who support the president are following this strategy and explain the consequences of an approach like that.</s>RODRIGUEZ: I am very concerned and I have been all along. There are people that are playing politics with our lives. I am a Miami hometown boy. So, this one really strikes from very closely. DeSantis has obviously been riding whatever -- I mean, President Trump wants him to do. They have put politics before lives. And the danger is that once this ball starts rolling down the hill, it's going to gain momentum. And if you look at the graphs, it really is about to explode in a couple of weeks. And listen, we are one big country and what happens in Florida will eventually as it is happening now will happen in Iowa and Nebraska. We are not separate.</s>CHURCH: Yes. And the problem is of course, they are opening things up.</s>RODRIGUEZ: Of course.</s>CHURCH: So this makes the situation worst. And a recent study shows Italy opened windows for in-person learning at schools and kids wear masks and face shields while sitting about eight feet apart. Then there is a chance schools could offer safer in-person learning experience. Do you agree with that? Is that a workable model, depending, of course, on what each school is able to do? Some schools can't accommodate eight feet between each student.</s>RODRIGUEZ: Yes, you know, it's very difficult. These question about children and learning is a very difficult thing. Obviously, for complete growth, should be with their peers. What I think would work is to establish these norms and to have a rotating system. We need to be fluid. We need to have some kids coming in. Maybe one third of class on Monday, another third on Tuesday and the rest can be done virtually, you know, the other third on Wednesday. We need to be inventive. But it can work. We just need to again, follow separation, shields and washing our hands.</s>CHURCH: Yes, and of course it depends how many kids. I mean, the kids at my -- my kid's high school, there are 2,400 of them. It would be impossible for all of them to be accommodated in a situation like that. So each school has to be taken one at a time and work this out. So, what do you say to American families who want to get together for thanksgiving later next month? And to other families across the globe planning to dine or party together.</s>RODRIGUEZ: I say and this may sound a little corny, but I say that this year we need to isolate and perhaps not see each other so that next year when we do get together, nobody is missing. So I say that we really need to buckle down and be very cautious. There are other ways of communicating. We don't have to gather in large groups this year. As a matter of fact, one of the most dangerous things that we do is gather with family and friends who we think just because they are family and friends they are safe. You can still love your family. We don't always have to see them. So, let's think of the future as opposed to right now, the president and this holiday season.</s>CHURCH: Some very wise advice there, Dr. Jorge Rodriguez. Thank you so much for joining us.</s>RODRIGUEZ: Thank you, Rosemary.</s>CHURCH: Later today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin are expected to resume talks in an effort to find common ground on a major stimulus deal. Pelosi seems upbeat about the progress, but some Senate Republicans, specifically Mitch McConnell, are not so optimistic. Sources say the Senate majority leader doesn't expect a deal to get a vote in his chamber before Election Day. Here is what the Democratic Senate minority leader had to say about it.</s>SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The only bills McConnell will put on the floor are so -- they are not small, they are not skinny. They are emaciated. They leave out testing and tracing. They leave out helping kids open up the schools. They leave out helping people with their rental. We can't have a deal that has virtually nothing. Even the one thing they say they might be for, which is some small business relief, they leave out relief to restaurants. They leave out relief to our independent venues, our stages. They leave out relief to nonprofits. They even leave out relief to our rural hospitals, which definitely need help. So, they can't bring themselves to do anything. So we are not even at this stage of talking compromise.</s>CHURCH: Meanwhile, The New York Times and Sienna College had come out with a new poll. It shows seven out of 10 Americans support a two trillion dollar stimulus package backed by House Democrats. Well, Cathay Pacific Group is the latest airline company taking an economic blow from the coronavirus pandemic. The company announced nearly 6,000 people will lose their jobs in an effort to cut costs. Most of the cut positions will come from the company's Hong Kong headquarters. Hundreds more jobs that had gone unfilled will also be eliminated. And CNN's Selina Wang is following this story from Hong Kong. She joins us now live. Good to see you, Selina. So, how is this news being received in Hong Kong?</s>SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, great to be with you. I mean, we were expecting these job cuts considering just how hard the industry has been hit by the COVID-19 pandemic. But still these are the largest job cuts in Cathay Pacific's history. They are eliminating about a quarter of the jobs. As you mentioned they are going to be laying off more than 5,000 employees here in Hong Kong as well as hundreds of employees overseas. Now, Cathay Pacific was already struggling before the COVID-19 pandemic. Hong Kong protest had significantly reduce the number of travelers coming in from the mainland. And then when it comes to COVID-19, a place like Hong Kong gets hit especially hard because it doesn't have a domestic market to rely on to offset the drop in international travelers. Now as a result of this, Cathay is also going to be getting rid of one of its regional carriers called Cathay Dragon. But the goal here, the hope is that as a result of this, this will allow Cathay to stay afloat for a bit longer. They have been losing hundreds of millions of dollars per month, and even after this restructuring, they are still going to be bleeding cash. Now, if you take a look across the board at the carrier industry, it is not a pretty picture. You have the International Air Transport Association predicting that it's going to take until 2024 for passenger traffic to get back to pre-pandemic levels. Qantas recently announcing it's going to be laying off around 30 percent of its staff. At Singapore airlines, it's going to be around 20 percent. And then in the U.S., they are already starting to layoff tens of thousands of people in the airline industry. And this is despite Congress approving that $50 billion bailout package earlier this year. Now, Cathay Pacific had also received some help over the summer. It had received a $5 billion rescue package that was led by the Hong Kong government. But that just wasn't enough. And in the words of the CEO of Cathay Pacific Group, he said that the global pandemic continues to have a devastating impact on aviation. And the hard truth is we must fundamentally restructure the group to survive. So expecting more pain ahead for Cathay Pacific, they are expecting to operate less than half of its pre-pandemic passenger flight capacity in 2021. Rosemary?</s>CHURCH: Yes. So many consequences as a result of this pandemic. Selina Wang joining us live from Hong Kong, many thanks. Well, witnesses say protests have been met with gunfire by Nigerian troops. The latest on demands for police reform when we come back.

Gunfire Reported at Protests in Nigeria; In Sudan War Crimes, the Government Assures Cooperation with International Criminal Court

CHURCH: In Lagos, Nigeria, protest against police brutality turned violent as eyewitnesses say soldiers opened fire on demonstrators.</s>CHURCH: Witnesses tell CNN that multiple people were shot, and they say the gunfire went on for at least 15 to 30 minutes. And CNN's Eleni Giokos joins me now live. So, Eleni, we are getting these eyewitness accounts of Nigerian forces opening fire on peaceful protesters. What is the latest on this?</s>ELENI GIOKOS, CNN MONEY AFRICA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the latest that we are hearing on the ground in Lekki, which is an area in Lagos where the mayhem ensued, and that's where many Nigerians are calling it that they are still hearing gunshots and gunfire heard across that area. Now, we had one eyewitness, which is DJ Switch, it's a Nigerian celebrity who posted a video on Twitter this morning walking in the streets in the same clothes she was wearing last night and hearing the gunshots. So, we don't know who is shooting and what exactly is playing out in that moment right now. But it seems the situation is still on the go. And you rightly say these are peaceful protesters, according to eyewitnesses. That then the National Security Forces open gunfire directly on the demonstrators. What really happened was after the curfew was in stated yesterday at 4:00 p.m. local time, we started to see National Security Forces descend on the Lekki Bridge. This is where the peaceful protesters were stationed. Then we saw the physical removal of CCTV cameras and then the electricity was turned off. When the sun went down and it was dark, that is when eyewitnesses say the army started with gunfire and we are hearing stories of bodies on the ground. We cannot confirm fatalities, but Amnesty International says they are concerned about the credible and disturbing reports coming through about possible fatalities. The Lagos governor, in the meantime has confirmed that people have been hospitalized. But what's really important here is just how people are feeling right now. And this morning, so many people have called me overnight. We spoke to so many eyewitnesses. Everyone traumatized, disappointed, upset, people are waking up feeling numb and saying that the one voice they haven't heard from is the president of Nigeria. Even through this two week protest action that we've seen which started off really peacefully and then you started to see packets and localized violence occurring, I mean this curfew being instated after the evangelization of property. Nigerians are feeling really hurt and upset and the general sentiment that we are hearing is of immense disappointment, Rosemary.</s>CHURCH: Yes, and Eleni, I am seeing some really disturbing footage being sent to me on Twitter and I wanted to ask about this too. Protesters are demanding protection and calling for an end to police brutality, but the police unit responsible for these brutal acts was disbanded and then formed again under a different name. So what happens now?</s>GIOKOS: Yes, I mean, it's such a good question, because we've heard reports coming in to CNN that the SARS unit, which they said was disbanded, has actually still been operational even after that fact. Now, the demonstrators and the protesters continued with the call to end police brutality, even after the news that the government had officially disbanded the SARS unit. Because they say a new unit was created very quickly under the name of SWAT. Is it just a re-branding exercise but with the same people that have not been trained. And this has been the big issue and of course they want to see prosecutions. And in the interim, we have actually seen police force being used against protesters. Water cannons, a person lost their lives on Monday. So, this is definitely been ongoing. What is next? You need to hear from government. The big messages they need to be some kind of leadership. Nigeria turned 60 years this month. It's the month of independence. Many say this is a turning point, historically, contextually this is important. And also fascinating here that the protest action that we've seen has cut across the social spectrum. Executives, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and even unemployed youth have joined in this call. So, it's going to be interesting to see the next few days. I think are going to be a big turning point. Nigerians are feeling hurt and upset today.</s>CHURCH: Absolutely. Eleni Giokos bringing us the latest on the situation on the ground in Nigeria. Many thanks. Well, in Sudan, a ray of hope for the victims of alleged war crimes in the countries Darfur region. But accountability for former dictator Omar al-Bashir is not yet a done deal. CNN's Nima Elbagir reports from London.</s>NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In a historic visit to Sudan, the international criminal court's chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda says that she has been assured by the highest level of Sudan's sovereign transitional council that they will cooperate with the international criminal courts in the matter of the inductees for war crimes in Darfur. Those inductees infamously include Sudan's former dictator, ousted President Omar Hassan al-Bashir among others. It's a move that would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago. Back in 2009 and 2010, when the international criminal court first released its arrest warrant for Omar al-Bashir for crimes in Darfur. But it still has been a long time coming for the victims of Omar al-Bashir and the other (inaudible). It has been a long, long journey of almost a decade and a half. Fatou Bensouda says, she hopes that this trip will start a new era of both cooperation, but also a new area of hope that finally for the victims of al-Bashir and others that they will recognize that not only will justice be done, but that hope should always be possible. And what should that hope look like? Well, so, what we are hearing so far is they are looking at a number of possibilities. Hybrid courts based in Sudan in which al-Bashir and others will be prosecuted, cooperation in Sudan. But the Sunni's transitional authority acknowledges that it would be very problematic, as they put it to try and get al-Bashir and others to The Hague at a time when the transitional government is itself very fragile. But at the very least, Bensouda says she hopes that victims are taking away a commitment from her and others that finally justice will be served. Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.</s>CHURCH: COVID-19 isn't the only health crisis facing India. Coming up, how the capitals air pollution may be getting even worse. We are back in a moment.

India's Pollution and COVID Crises.

CHURCH: Well, India is already dealing with the world's second highest number of confirmed cases of the coronavirus, more than 7.5 million to date. But now comes another crisis, increasing levels of toxic air pollution. And it could make people more susceptible to the virus. CNN's Vedika Sud has our report.</s>VEDIKA SUD, CNN PRODUCER: While India struggles to control its COVID- 19 caseload currently second only to the U.S., another health crisis has impacted Delhi and surrounding states. The iconic India Gate shrouded in smog in the early hours of the morning. The cities worsening air pollution has walkers and cyclists gasping for breath.</s>SUD: Farmers burning the residue of their crops tends to make the air quality even worse at this time of year, along with all the usual pollution drivers like car and industrial emissions and the burning of garbage. According to India's pollution control board, Delhi's air quality index in the first two weeks of October was worse than the same period in 2018 and 2019. Environmentalists say the government needs to be more proactive.</s>VIMLENDU JHA, ENVIRONMENTALIST: The air is not only polluted in these three months. Delhi has a bad air day troubles to 50 days up to 65 days. And therefore we cannot wake up only in the month of October and think of a solution. We have to think of a solution which is 365 days or for the next five years.</s>SUD: Medical experts have expressed concern over the impact of rising air pollution levels during the pandemic.</s>RANDEEP GULERIA, DIRECTOR, AIIMS: There are studies which have look at a correlation between the rising levels of pollution and COVID-19 cases. And these studies tend to show that if there is one unit rise in (inaudible) 2.5, you can have a significant increase in the number of COVID-19 cases.</s>SUD: With no immediate solution in sight, it's a double whammy for the people of Delhi and bordering states. They are now banking on these masks not only to avoid contracting the virus, but critical respiratory illnesses as well. Vedika Sud, CNN, New Delhi.</s>CHURCH: And thanks so much for joining us. I am Rosemary Church. I will be back with more news in just a moment.

Trump: We're Rounding the Turn on the Pandemic; Trump Rallies Voters in Battleground State of Pennsylvania; Obama to Campaign for Biden in Pennsylvania; Biden Steps Back from Campaigning to Prepare for Debate; More than 32 Million Americans Have Already Cast Votes; National Polls Show Biden Leading Trump

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. You are watching "CNN NEWSROOM" and I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead, Donald Trump rallies across battleground states promising a return to normal life as COVID cases climb steadily across the country. His opponent Joe Biden lays low prepping for the final debate and deploying one big name surrogate. It's all motivating record numbers of early voters. And missing international travel? There might be an app for that. We will tell you how technology could overcome coronavirus travel barriers. Good to have you with us. With less than two weeks until election day, U.S. President Donald Trump is trying to convince voters he has the COVID-19 pandemic under control. He took his message to Pennsylvania on Tuesday, a state critical to his re-election.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're rounding the turn on the pandemic. Epic job growth, safe vaccines that quickly end the pandemic. It's ending. Normal life, that's all we want. You know what we want? Normal life.</s>CHURCH: But the U.S. is far from normal. Daily coronavirus infections are soaring at levels not seen in months, but that's not the story the President wants to convey on the campaign trail. And it appears his supporters crowded next to each other on Tuesday, many without masks, may be comfortable with that message. CNN's Kaitlan Collins was Erie, Pennsylvania as Mr. Trump rallied his supporters. She has more on that campaign stop.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As the President was rallying his supporters in Pennsylvania on Tuesday night with two weeks to go before the election, he at one point seemed to recognize the dire position he's in when it comes to political polling. Because he said that if it had been before the pandemic, he likely wouldn't have been in Erie, Pennsylvania. But basically, told the crowd he had to show up given that his poll numbers right now are behind those of Joe Biden in Pennsylvania, a state that he carried in 2016. That rally came just a few hours after the President had sat down with CBS's Lesley Stahl at the White House for an interview for 60 Minutes at which we are told the President abruptly ended the interview before it was scheduled to be done, after about 45 minutes because he grew frustrated with the line of questioning from Stahl. And we're told he left the room and did not come back to do what was supposed to be a taped portion of the interview with the Vice President, Mike Pence. And of course, then you saw the President go on Twitter. He taunted Lesley Stahl for at one point during the briefing -- or during the interview not wearing a mask. And then he threatened to release the interview before CBS News airs it next Sunday. Of course, whether or not he ultimately does still seem -- remains to be seen. But what you are seeing with these two weeks to go before the election is the President is making his closing message attacks on reporters like CBS News, attacks on other reporters as well, including the debate moderator for Thursday night for that final presidential debate, but also on Dr. Anthony Fauci, someone he has repeatedly gone after in recent days. And this is not exactly the closing political message that aides had hoped he would have, given the fact that he is trailing Joe Biden in so many states, with so few days left to go. Kaitlan Collins, CNN, traveling with the President in Pennsylvania.</s>CHURCH: Well, Tuesday marked the second day in a row Joe Biden took a break from the campaign trail to prepare for Thursday night's debate. But as CNN's Arlette Saenz reports, one big name will soon be helping Biden attract voters ahead of election day.</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: While Joe Biden prepares for that next debate against President Trump, he'll have some help out on the campaign trail from a long-time friend who happens to be the Democratic Party's biggest surrogate. President Obama is scheduled to campaign for Joe Biden in Philadelphia. His first in person campaign appearance for his former vice president. Obama will hold a drive-in style rally following those same coronavirus protocols and standards that the Biden campaign has in place for their events. Including social distance as this pandemic continues to play out. Now this will be just one of a few appearances Obama makes to vouch for his former vice president. The Biden campaign believes that the former president can help mobilize black men, Latinos and young voters to get out there and vote heading into election day. Now while this will be a solo stop, there is a possibility that Biden and Obama could appear together on the campaign trail in the closing days before the election. But for now, though former President is lending his help to his former Vice President heading into November. Now for Biden's part, he is expected to spend most of the day focusing on his debate prep as he prepares again for that one-on-one matchup against the President. And advisor to Biden says the former's Expects the President to bully and deflect his way through the next debate. They expect that the attacks will not just focus on Biden but also his family. So those are things that the former Vice President will be preparing for in these coming days as he prepares to face off just one more time against the President. Arlette Saenz, CNN, Washington.</s>CHURCH: And as Arlette reported there, former President Barack Obama is about to hit the campaign trail for Joe Biden. Obama is also taking his message to social media. And here's his latest post on Twitter.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can come out of this moment stronger than before. Voting doesn't accomplish that on its own, but we can't accomplish that without voting. I know there's plenty out there to make people feel cynical and plenty of people are going to seize on that to convince you that your vote doesn't matter. It's not new. It's one of the oldest voter suppression tactics there is. What is new is a growing movement for justice, equality and progress on so many issues.</s>CHURCH: All of the political drama is motivating voters. More than 32 million Americans have already cast ballots in this election shattered early voting records. CNN's Abby Phillip takes a look at who's casting these early votes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't procrastinate. Vote early.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just two weeks to go, and it appears that's the way many Americans are feeling about this 2020 election.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really want to get it done and over with, and do it early, that way I know I've voted.</s>PHILLIP: So far more than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide, whether by mail or in-person. On the first day of in- person voting in Wisconsin, voters braving hours long lines and rising COVID numbers.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion, that's what America is about.</s>PHILLIP: Huge lines, snaking around entire buildings or down city blocks, becoming a familiar sight all over the country. Many voters even lining up before sunrise, rain or shine. Pending legal challenges in several states including some battleground states are far from over.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's one of the most important elections, obviously. There's so much riding on the line.</s>PHILLIP: In Pennsylvania, the Supreme Court ruling on Monday, the state can count mail-in ballots if they are sent in by election day and received within three days even if they do not have a legible postmark. Something the President is already attacking.</s>TRUMP: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. What kind of a thing, so what does that mean we're going to wait --?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Roberts --</s>TRUMP: -- we're going to wait till after November 3rd, and start announcing states, that's crazy.</s>PHILLIP: Pennsylvania state law says the counting of absentee ballots cannot begin until election day, which combines with the court ruling allowing ballots to be received three days after election day, means, we may not know the results of the presidential race for several days after November 3rd.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You won't have the precise numbers certainly for a few days, but I think you're going to have a sense of where things are going.</s>PHILLIP: Meanwhile, in North Carolina the state elections board are now extending the deadlines to accept mail-in ballots, postmarked by election day through November 12, more than a week after the election. But the legal battle is still ongoing. As of this morning in North Carolina, 1.9 million ballots have been cast. That represents 25 percent of the states registered voters. And in Florida, voters are turning out in droves on the first day of early in-person voting. The state says more than 366,000 Floridians cast votes Monday. By this morning Florida was just shy of three million ballots cast overall. The same time, four years ago, Florida has just over 1.6 million total ballots cast.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you're not going to vote don't complain for the next four years. That's the way I look at it.</s>PHILLIP: Abby Phillip, CNN, Washington.</s>CHURCH: Joining me now is CNN senior political analyst, David Gergen. He's also a formal presidential adviser to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton. Thank you so much, sir, for talking with us.</s>DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you. It's a privilege.</s>CHURCH: So, two weeks away from this critical election and early voting has started in battleground states like Wisconsin, Florida, Georgia and elsewhere. People lining up despite the pandemic, casting 32 million early votes. So far, showing historic turnout. What does that signal to you?</s>GERGEN: Well, on the surface, it signals that the Democrats are doing much better than expected. The early returns that we talk about that we're so feeling massively to the extent that we know the contents of the ballots, they seem to favor Democrats over Republicans. Republicans apparently are holding their fire, will vote in greater numbers on election day two weeks from now. But I do think that in contrast the earlier news this year when it was the Republicans who are raising the registration numbers faster than the Democrats were, it was the Republicans who are saying that they could be charging out of the gate. But now, the momentum is clearly over to the Democrats. They have an avalanche of money coming in. The polls were there where really steadily ahead. The latest "New York Times" poll, one of the most respective, has come out in the last 24 hours with Biden holding a 9- point lead. A little bit has been shaved off, but not very much. And, very importantly, the new polling also shows that on these issues, Biden has more support on the issues than Trump does on the pandemic, and even the economy. For the President, that's not saying, he is a really good closure, as we all know. You can't count him out. There are a lot of votes out there that may be hidden, but at this moment, every indication is that Joe Biden is sitting on in a big lead, and conceivably could win a very, very big victory.</s>CHURCH: On Tuesday, President Trump abruptly ended an interview with Lesley Stahl on 60 Minutes --</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: -- and skip a scheduled joint interview with Vice President Mike Pence. Ironically, the President later attacked Stahl for not wearing a mask. What did you make of all of that?</s>GERGEN: Well, you know, I didn't make much of it. There have been so many erratic moves by this president, especially since he was diagnosed with COVID. It's almost he's little -- I do not know whether he is under the influence, if he is taking drugs or not taking any drugs, it is hard to tell. But I can tell you that his judgment has been salty. He is not good at the policy issue any way, but he has been very good as a state master, you know, and capturing the public's attention. And then this time around, whatever he tries, it doesn't seem to work. It's almost as if people are really, you know, a really great TV series often end after four or five, six seasons that people become bored, you know, it's repetitive. And they start looking for something else -- well, yes, I think that Trump may have run out of spark here, and people are looking for something fresher, and they would prefer to be healed by Biden than sort of going on another joyride with Trump for four years.</s>CHURCH: Right. And the former special ops commander, William McRaven who oversaw the Osama Bin Laden raid --</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: -- says he voted for Joe Biden. The retired U.S. four-star admiral says, the world no longer looks up to America because of the actions of Donald Trump.</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: There's also an ad put together by officials who worked under formal Republican President George W. Bush, endorsing Biden, and very influential GOP Senators are also --</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>CHURCH: -- distancing themselves from Trump. I mean, this is almost unheard of, isn't it?</s>GERGEN: It is.</s>CHURCH: What is the significance of all of this?</s>GERGEN: It means the dam is breaking. A lot of people have been very unhappy and frustrated with the President but have kept their own counsel, tried not to get in the way and hope he would turn around with</s>CHURCH: David Gergen, always a pleasure to get your analysis.</s>GERGEN: Thanks, Rosemary. Good to talk to you again.</s>CHURCH: You too. And be sure to tune in to CNN for the final presidential debate. Our coverage begins 7 p.m. Eastern on Thursday, that's 12 a.m. in London and 7 a.m. in Hong Kong on Friday. And still to come, fear loneliness, depression, not what the holidays are supposed to be about but they're all possible responses to the idea that COVID-19 could curtail Thanksgiving. How to brace for the season, that's next.

U.S. Infections and Hospitalizations on the Rise.

CHURCH: Daily coronavirus infections in the U.S. are soaring to levels not seen in months. More than half of U.S. states are seeing a week- on-week rise. Hospitalizations are also way up as Erica Hill reports.</s>ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The dreaded second wave now washing over the</s>U.S. GOV. JB PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: Nearly every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID-related hospitalizations over the last week.</s>HILL: Illinois among the 42 states reporting a rising hospitalizations, 14 hitting new peaks. It's not just hospitals setting new records. Nationwide the virus is surging.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These numbers are grim. They are going the wrong direction.</s>HILL: Undergrads at the University of Michigan now under a stay at home order for the next two weeks. County health officials say students account for more than 60 percent of new cases in the area. Michigan is among the 31 states seeing a rise in new cases over the past week. Just one, Hawaii, seeing a decline.</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER: Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or M for this country arch of next year, we are heading into the worst part of this pandemic for this country.</s>HILL: New case numbers are typically lower on Mondays. This week the U.S. added more than 58,000 topping a Monday record set three months ago.</s>MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIR. UNIV. OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: For the first time in many areas, we've seeing over half the cases having no recognized risk exposure, meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So, it shows you how prevalent or how common this virus transmission is in our communities.</s>HILL: That silence spreading fueling new concern and advice about the holidays.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: It's unnatural for us to think all those people that we love and trust, could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer.</s>HILL: The head of the national institutes of health, the latest expert to announce his own family won't be gathering.</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: For the first time in 27 years there won't be any family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance.</s>HILL: But staying safe over the next several months can be lonely.</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYER COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: It's just going to be a huge impact on mental health. You're going to get sad. You're going to get scared. You're going to get depressed. Nor this is a normal response to a very stressful situation.</s>HILL: Channeling that stress into exercise, meditation or virtual gatherings can help and there's some encouraging news. A new study finds ventilation, including opening windows, spacing, desk shields and hand washing greatly reduce the spread in classrooms hopefully allowing more scenes like this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning how are you.</s>HILL: A bright spot amid an uncertain future. (on camera): One thing most health experts agree on, the next few weeks will be likely very difficult especially as temperatures drop. Colorado state epidemiologist says they're actually in the fall wave. Her biggest concern hospitals. She says one in every four hospital beds is now being used by a COVID-19 patient. In New York, Erica Hill, CNN.</s>CHURCH: So, let's talk about this with Dr. Jorge Rodriguez. He joins me from Los Angeles. Thank you doctor for talking with us.</s>JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE AND VIRAL SPECIALIST: My pleasure.</s>CHURCH: So, this country has lost nearly 221,000 people and 42 states report an increased in hospitalizations over the past two weeks. Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb says the U.S. is one week away from a rapid acceleration in COVID cases. What needs to be done?</s>RODRIGUEZ: What need to be done is that we really need to start adhering too and believing what has been said now for almost nine months, which is that this virus is here. It's here to stay for a long time and we need to practice the holy trinity, which is masks, separation by at least six feet from other people and handwashing. There is no room for error right now. There really isn't.</s>CHURCH: Yes, exactly. And the mayor of Miami Beach is accusing Florida's Governor of pursuing a herd immunity strategy. The very same approach advocated by Dr. Scott Atlas who now advises President Trump. How concerned are you that the Trump administration and governors who support the president are following this strategy and explain the consequences of an approach like that?</s>RODRIGUEZ: Well, I am very concerned, and I have been all along. There are people that are playing politics with our lives. I am a Miami hometown boy. So, this one really strikes home from very closely. DeSantis has obviously been riding whatever -- I mean, President Trump wants him to do. They have put politics before lives. And the danger is that once this ball starts rolling down the hill, it's going to gain momentum. And if you look at the graphs, it really is about to explode in a couple of weeks. And listen, we are one big country and what happens in Florida will eventually as it is happening now will happen in Iowa and Nebraska. We are not separate.</s>CHURCH: Yes, and the problem is of course, they are opening things up.</s>RODRIGUEZ: Of course.</s>CHURCH: So, this makes the situation worst. And a recent study shows if we open windows for in-person learning at schools and kids wear masks and face shields while sitting about eight feet apart. Then there is a chance schools could offer safer in-person learning experience. Do you agree with that? Is that a workable model, depending, of course, on what each school is able to do? Some schools can't accommodate eight feet between each student.</s>RODRIGUEZ: Yes, you know, it's very difficult. These question about children and learning is a very difficult thing. Obviously, for complete growth, should be with their peers. What I think would work is to establish these norms and to have a rotating system. We need to be fluid. We need to have some kids coming in. Maybe one third of classes on Monday, another third on Tuesday and the rest can be done virtually, and you know, the other third on Wednesday. We need to be inventive. But it can work. We just need to again, follow separation, shields and washing our hands.</s>CHURCH: Yes, and of course it depends how many kids. I mean, the kids at my kid's high school, there are 2,400 of them. It would be impossible for all of them to be accommodated in a situation like that. So, each school has to be taken one at a time and work this out. So, what do you say to American families who want to get together for Thanksgiving later next month? And to other families across the globe planning to dine or party together.</s>RODRIGUEZ: I say, and this may sound a little corny, but I say that this year we need to isolate and perhaps not see each other so that next year when we do get together, nobody is missing. So, I say that we really need to buckle down and be very cautious. There are other ways of communicating. We don't have to gather in large groups this year. As a matter of fact, one of the most dangerous things that we do is gather with family and friends who we think just because they are family and friends, they're safe. You can still love your family. We don't always have to see them. So, let's think of the future as opposed to right now, the present and this holiday season.</s>CHURCH: Some very wise advice there, Dr. Jorge Rodriguez. Thank you so much for joining us.</s>RODRIGUEZ: Thank you, Rosemary.</s>CHURCH: Well, turning the state of Michigan blue again. One woman is making it her mission to get voters to the polls to avoid another narrow win by Donald Trump. Back in a moment.

Early Voting USA, Record Turnouts; Why The Election Hangs On The Number 270; U.S. Daily Infections Top New Levels; British P.M. Imposes Tough Restrictions On Manchester; Trump Won Michigan in 2016 but it Now Leans Biden

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from studio seven at CNN's world headquarters here in Atlanta. And ahead this hour. Americans are voting early in record numbers. Tens of millions of ballots are in as this presidential election campaigns heads into the final stretch. Northern rebellion. Manchester's mayor at loggerheads with the prime minister over his new tier three pandemic restrictions. And later, the latest economic blow from the coronavirus. A major airline announces thousands of jobs will go.</s>VAUSE: The U.S. presidential campaign is entering the final stretch. And just as it began with the messages and actions of Trump and Biden, a study in contrasts. Donald Trump returned to the battleground state of Pennsylvania Tuesday. During a nighttime rally he warned a Biden administration would end fracking and kill the American Dream. Earlier he called Biden a criminal, urged an investigation by the attorney general but did not specify what should actually be investigated. The president also abruptly ended an interview with "60 Minutes" on "CBS" falsely claiming reporter Lesley Stahl would not wear a face mask. The taped segment is yet to go to air. Joe Biden spent the day away from the campaign preparing instead for Thursday's final debate. His wife, Dr. Jill Biden, made a number of campaign stops in Michigan. Meantime, early voting now underway in another big battleground state, that's Wisconsin. And from there, here's CNN's Abby Phillip.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Don't procrastinate. Vote early.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Just two weeks to go and it appears that's the way many Americans are feeling about this 2020 election.</s>LATINA WILLIAMS, WISCONSIN VOTER: I'd rather get it done and over with and do it early. That way I know I've voted.</s>PHILLIP: So far more than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide, whether by mail or in person. On the first day of in-person voting in Wisconsin, voters braving hours-long lines and rising COVID numbers.</s>TOM SERAK, WISCONSIN VOTER: If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion. That's what America's about.</s>PHILLIP: Huge lines snaking around entire buildings or down city blocks becoming a familiar sight all over the country. Many voters even lining up before sunrise, rain or shine. Pending legal challenges in several states, including some battleground states, are far from over.</s>DAN PETRY, WISCONSIN VOTER: It's one of the most important elections, obviously. There's so much riding on the line.</s>PHILLIP: In Pennsylvania, the supreme court ruling on Monday the state can count in mail-in ballots if they're sent in by election day and received within three days even if they don't have a legible postmark. Something the president is already attacking.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election's over. What kind of a thing -- so what does that mean?</s>STEVE DOOCY, ANCHOR, "BREAKFAST WITH FOX & FRIENDS": John Roberts.</s>TRUMP: We're going to wait until after November 3rd, and start announcing states. It's crazy.</s>PHILLIP: Pennsylvania state law says the counting of absentee ballots cannot begin until election day. Which combined with the court ruling allowing ballots to be received three days after election day means we may not know the results of the presidential race for several days after November 3rd.</s>JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You won't have the precise number, certainly, for a few days. But I think you're going to have a real good sense of where things are going.</s>PHILLIP: Meanwhile, in North Carolina the state elections board now extending the deadline to accept mail-in ballots postmarked by election day through November 12th. More than a week after the election. But the legal battle is still ongoing. As of this morning, in North Carolina, 1.9 million ballots had been cast. That represents 25 percent of the state's registered voters. And in Florida, voters are turning out in droves on the first day of early in-person voting. The state says more than 366,000 Floridians cast votes Monday. By this morning, Florida was just shy of 3 million ballots cast overall. The same time four years ago, Florida had just over 1.6 million total ballots cast.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If you're not going to vote, don't complain for the next four years. That's the way I look at it.</s>PHILLIP: Abby Phillip. CNN, Washington.</s>VAUSE: The road to the White House is not as simple as which candidate gets the most votes. Ask Hillary Clinton about that. The winner is decided by the electoral college. Each state sends a delegation to Washington based on population and the number of votes each candidate receives. And that's where this number comes in, 270. Two hundred and seventy is the number of electoral votes needed to win the presidency. CNN's John King explains how Donald Trump could still win this election despite trailing in all the opinion polls.</s>JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Two weeks out it is advantage Biden without a doubt, a big national lead. But things do get a little interesting when you go state by state, as we must do, in the final stretch. Let's take a look at some of the most interesting dynamics. Number one, our national poll of polls. Yes, I'm the one who always says don't pay attention to the national polls when we get this close. But when it's a double-digit lead, as it is now, you should pay attention. Right now, advantage Joe Biden, an 11-point national lead. That tells you he is favored, significantly so, to win this election. But again, let's take a look as we go through the battlegrounds. Let's look at the state of play. CNN's poll of polls. This is averages of recent polls in a number of battleground states, 10 states we view as the most important competitive states. You average out the polls so you're not investing in just one poll. Look what you get. Biden lead in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, pretty significant. Right? Eight, eight and nine. But then look at these other seven states here. The president up a little bit in Texas, very close. Biden up maybe up a little in Ohio. Georgia, essentially a tie, a little Biden lead. Iowa is a tie. North Carolina, plus two for Biden, that's essentially a tie. Florida, plus three. Arizona, plus four. Very competitive, very close heading into the final stretch, right. So what does that mean? Look where we are right now, remember those 10 states. We already lean Texas red. What if the president comes back -- you saw how close it was in Arizona and he gets Arizona. The president -- Iowa was a toss up, let's say the president wins it, perfectly plausible. Ohio as well, has Republican DNA. He won North Carolina last time, it's close, let's give it to the president. And Georgia and Florida. Biden's competitive in all those places but what I just did is completely plausible. What does it do to the numbers? 279 to 258. Biden's still leading but the president in play. So then we come down to this again; Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. We come down to them again -- and as I noted earlier, let's take a closer look. Of those 10 battlegrounds, those are the states where Biden's leads are pretty comfortable. The president at 43 in all states, Biden above 50 in all three of those states. So this is the strategic choice and the spending choice for Joe Biden. Do you just spend here or do you try to go bold? If this scenario played out, watch this. If that played out and the president won Pennsylvania, game over. Four more years for Donald Trump. Let's say Joe Biden holds onto Pennsylvania. Well, the president could win Michigan again. Four more years for Donald Trump, under this scenario. If it was just Wisconsin, if Biden held Michigan, just Wisconsin would not be enough but it would be 269, 268. And what if the president won Maine second congressional district? If we get that, you get the vaunted 269, 269 tie. I'm not trying to suggest that will happen. I'm just suggesting if you're Joe Biden and you're looking at the state of play right now and how tight those other battlegrounds are, you focus on these states. And the reason you focus on those states is because you remember, four years ago, it was those same states right up there -- those three, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin -- that made Donald Trump president. If Joe Biden wants to be president, he has to flip those back to blue.</s>VAUSE: It's important to remember in the U.S. national elections are held in a state by state basis. In other words, it's not one big election but rather 50 separate elections with 50 different set of rules and regulations which often are applied differently from county to county. Twenty years ago, this country was left on a knife's edge for weeks as the supreme court decided that different counties using different methods of vote counting was a constitutional violation. For the record, yes, that was Bush V. Gore. And what could be yet to come in the days and weeks after this presidential election could make the Bush V. Gore bitter legal battle look like a church picnic. For more, we're joined now by CNN election law analyst Rick Hasen in Los Angeles. So, Rick, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.</s>RICHARD HASEN, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST, AUTHOR "ELECTION MELTDOWN": Great to be with you.</s>VAUSE: I should mention you're the author of "Election Meltdown: Dirty Tricks, Distrust, and the Threat to American Democracy." And with that out of the way, John King just explained a short time ago how the road to the presidency will once again run through Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. But of those three, just in terms of legal action and court decisions already made before election day, do you see Pennsylvania now as sort of shaping up as potentially ground zero in determining the outcome of the election? Will Pennsylvania fill the role, I guess, played 20 years ago by Florida?</s>HASEN: Well, of course, there's no way to know until election day. But Pennsylvania is the state I have my eye on the most. In part because the polls there are the closest among those three Midwestern states and in part because there's been just a ton of litigation, including litigation that went to the supreme court that was just decided this week over the receipt of late arriving ballots. And it's pretty clear that the Trump Campaign is putting a lot of litigation effort into Pennsylvania in the hopes that potentially it will be close enough in Pennsylvania, that, if possible, they could try to litigate their way to a win.</s>VAUSE: As a general observation, is it fair to say that underlying all of these electoral litigation challenges, these legal actions, it's a basic question of should voting be made easier or harder?</s>HASEN: Well, I think that's part of it. You know, we're trying to vote in the middle of a pandemic. And so something that's happened is since states have made it easier for people to vote in the midst of the pandemic and that has caused Republicans to complain that the rules are going to open up the doors to fraud. So far the courts have rejected that. And the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in expanded the rules relied on the state constitution and said we really need to provide opportunities for people to vote during the pandemic. Democrats have gone after places where they haven't loosened up the rules and there the claim is the constitution requires them to. And the supreme court has pretty much been saying we're going to leave this to the states, the states really have to decide how to balance health and safety concerns against how easy or difficult it is for people to be able to vote in the midst of the pandemic.</s>VAUSE: You touched on this earlier but the Biden team has created a special litigation unit; on the Republican side they're called "Lawyers for Trump." At the end of the day thousands of lawyers are spread out across this country on election day. Here's an example of how laws and court decisions already differ from state to state. "Supreme Court allows Pennsylvania to count mail-in ballots received after Election Day." That's the big decision you were talking about. Meanwhile, "Michigan Ballots That Arrive After Election Day Will Not Be Counted," Court Rules. That latter decision was in Michigan State appeals court. But would that not be impacted in any way by this decision from the supreme court about Pennsylvania? And why is that?</s>HASEN: Well, so you said at the beginning that we have really highly decentralized elections. We have something like 10,500 different electoral jurisdictions in the United States with different roles. When it comes to what the rules are in the state, state courts are going to reach different conclusions based on their own statutes and based on their own constitutions. And so what explains the difference in Michigan and Pennsylvania are how the state courts interpreted their own rules. And generally, as I said, the supreme court is letting those state rules stand even though it creates a kind of disparity across states in terms of when you can mail your ballots and when they can be counted. If they arrive after election day.</s>VAUSE: Let's assume the polls are correct and that Donald Trump is a one-term president, he's replaced by Joe Biden and Trump is a lame duck president between election day and inauguration next year. Is there anything which is actually on paper written down as law which limits what a president can and cannot do during that period of time? Or is it all just part of the norms and traditions which have really have done nothing to restrain Donald Trump over the last four years?</s>HASEN: Well, no. There's no power that the president would have before Biden might be declared the winner, officially or unofficially, versus the power Trump would have afterwards. He maintains his power as president so long as he's capable of being in that office until noon on January 20th, 2021 if he loses the election. And so, we have seen Trump break a lot of norms. It would not be surprising to see him break more norms. One idea that I've heard floated is if he loses, he could try to pardon not only his friends and family but try to pardon himself. And that's going to be a new topic of discussion. But that's a number of steps ahead. First, Biden would have to win the election.</s>VAUSE: Yes. Maybe not borrowing problems from the future right now is a good idea. But it's something worth thinking about. Rick, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it.</s>HASEN: Thank you.</s>VAUSE: Deadly coronavirus infections are soaring in the U.S. to levels not seen in months. Compared to the previous week, 31 states are seeing an increase in confirmed cases. As CNN's Erica Hill reports, the number of hospital admissions is also way up.</s>ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The dreaded second wave now washing over the U.S.</s>GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-ILL): Nearly every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID-related hospitalizations over the last week.</s>HILL: Illinois among the 42 states reporting a rise in hospitalizations; 14 hitting new peaks.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Everybody ready?</s>HILL: It's not just hospitals setting records. Nationwide, the virus is surging.</s>GOV MIKE DEWINE (R-OHIO): These numbers are grim. They are going in the wrong direction.</s>HILL: Undergrads at the University of Michigan now under a stay-at- home order for the next two weeks. County health officials say students account for more than 60 percent of new cases in the area. Michigan is among the 31 states seeing a rise in new cases over the past week. Just one, Hawaii, seeing a decline.</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER: Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or March of next year, we are heading into the worst part of this pandemic for this country.</s>HILL: New case numbers are typically lower on Mondays. This week, the U.S. added more than 58,000, topping a Monday record set three months ago.</s>MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH & POLICY: For the first time in many areas, we're seeing over half the cases having no recognized risk exposure. Meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So it shows you how prevalent or how common this virus transmission is in our communities.</s>HILL: That silent spread new concern and advice about the holidays.</s>DR. LEANA WHEN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: It's unnatural for us to think oh, those people that we love and trust could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer.</s>HILL: The head of the National Institutes of Health, the latest expert to announce his own family won't be gathering.</s>DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: For the first time in 27 years there will be no family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance.</s>HILL: But staying safe over the next several months can be lonely.</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, DAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: There's just going to be a huge impact on mental health. You're going to get sad, you're going to get scared, you're going to get depressed. This is a normal response to a very stressful situation.</s>HILL: Channeling that stress into exercise, meditation or virtual gatherings can help. And there's some encouraging news. A new study finds ventilation including open windows, spacing, desk shields and hand washing greatly reduce the spread in classrooms. Hopefully, allowing more scenes like this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good morning, how are you?</s>HILL: A bright spot, amid an uncertain future. One thing most health experts agree on? The next three weeks will likely be difficult especially as temperatures drop. Colorado state epidemiologist says they are actually in their fall wave. Her biggest concern? Hospitals. She says one in every four hospital beds is now being used by a COVID-19 patient. In New York, Erica Hill, CNN.</s>VAUSE: Britain's prime minister has ordered tough new coronavirus restrictions for the northern city of Manchester. The mayor, though, has complained bitterly about the unilateral action from Westminster which comes after both sides failed to reach an agreement on government financial assistance. From Manchester, here's CNN's Selma Abdelaziz.</s>SELMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Prime Minister Boris Johnson is set to unilaterally impose tougher new restrictions on the city of Manchester after a bitter political dispute between the leadership here in this city and officials in Downing Street over their plans to raise the coronavirus alert level of this city to very high. That would mean shutting down pubs, bars and virtually banning any households from mixing together. There was a midday deadline on Tuesday imposed by the government. Of course, that deadline came and passed with no resolution. The mayor, Andy Burnham, actually happened to be in front of the cameras at the moment he realized that the restrictions would go into force or will go into force on Friday at midnight, local time.</s>MAYOR ANDREW BURNHAM, MANCHESTER, UNITED KINGDOM: I mean it's brutal, to be honest.</s>ABDELAZIZ: Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he had hoped to reach a deal that the best way to fight this surge in cases is through cooperation but that he had to put these restrictions forward.</s>BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Not to act would put Manchester's NHS and the lives of many of Manchester's residents lives at risk. Despite the failure to reach an agreement, I hope the mayor and council leaders in Greater Manchester will now work with us to implement these measures.</s>ABDELAZIZ: Now Mayor Andy Burnham has called on his residents to comply by these restrictions, to be law-abiding citizens even though he did not reach a deal. But this really does set a precedent for the country. The City of Manchester has been locked in this dispute with the central government for 10 days. For 10 days politicians have been bickering over a financial package, over the deals and the minutiae of these restrictions while coronavirus cases continue to surge in the city. So the question is what is the strategy? Does this regional approach mean that each town, city and region can negotiate its own deal while the virus spreads through its population? That is, of course, the concern. And it's part of the reason why scientists have called for a nationwide lockdown instead. The other concern and perhaps the most important one is one of compliance. Will a city like Manchester that feels that rules are being imposed upon it from the central government actually follow through with these restrictions? All of that is yet to be seen. Selma Abdelaziz. CNN, Manchester.</s>VAUSE: Italy is once again trying to contain an outbreak of the coronavirus. Even though the past two weeks has seen a steep spike in new cases, the deputy health minister told CNN the outbreak remains under control. Especially compared to the first wave when Italy was, for a time, the epicenter of the pandemic. And he says hospitals are now much better equipped.</s>PIERPAOLO SILERI, DEPUTY HEALTH MINISTER, ITALY: I think if you have an increase in number of ICU beds that are occupied there you need to do something. Right now, ICU beds that are occupied they're close to 800. It's a very low number compared to what we observed in March when we had more than 4,000 beds that were occupied simultaneously for coronavirus. But this is not true everywhere. (Inaudible) some areas where there is an increasing number of cases and an increased number of admissions in the hospital. I believe there another lockdown may be helpful to --</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Right.</s>SILERI: -- (inaudible) reduce the diffusion of the virus. What's happening in the north of Europe, for example, in France, in the U.K., something that will happen also in Italy. They reached almost 20,000 cases, 15-, 20,000 cases. And this will happen even in Italy. And since we need to survive with this virus and go ahead for the next few months (inaudible).</s>VAUSE: As for a nationwide lockdown, the minister says that's not necessary preferring more focused regional restrictions. The Campagna region which is home to Naples will be under curfew from Friday. So to Lombardy region, that's actually on Thursday. CNN's Ben Wedeman has details.</s>BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SNR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The northern Italian region of Lombardy is about to introduce an overnight curfew. Beginning Thursday evening, an 11:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. curfew will be in effect in a region with a population of about 10 million people. Only those who have to go out for reasons of work and health will be allowed to go out of their homes. It's not clear how long this curfew will be in place. Also, another proposal on the table but not yet approved is closing shopping malls over the weekend. And of course, it was Lombardy that was the worst hit region of Italy in the first wave of this pandemic. Now Sunday evening Italian prime minister Giuseppe Conte made it clear in a press conference that he was going to leave it up to local officials now to decide specific measures to try to stop this latest surge in cases. It is clear the Italian government wants to avoid a repeat of the more than two-month lockdown this country went through earlier this year. I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN. Reporting from Naples.</s>VAUSE: Well, still to come. India is second only to the U.S. in the number of coronavirus cases. But now there is a new risk factor; India's pollution is getting worse potentially making more people more susceptible to the virus. More on that in a moment. Also, staying at home can be perilous in a pandemic lockdown for domestic abuse victims. Survivors share their stories with CNN in a moment.

Lockdowns: No Refuge from Abuse

VAUSE: Ireland is now the first E.U. country to re-impose a coronavirus lockdown. Several cities around the world are weighing heavier restrictions including lockdowns and stay-at-home orders to try and slow the rate of infection. But for domestic abuse victims, staying at home with their abuser comes with its own dangers. CNN's Isa Suarez has their stories.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I loved this man more than anything. And I left everything for him.</s>ISA SUAREZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Away from her home in morocco and beguiled by her new husband --</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He make me fall in love with him slowly.</s>SUAREZ: -- this 32-year-old woman, who prefers to remain anonymous tells me her partner became a different man mid-pandemic.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He say to me you have to bring four thousand a month.</s>SUAREZ: With the economy in a deep recession and a frustrated husband unable to work his usual job as a taxi driver, she says her life became his to control.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He hit me too many time. And the last time he gave me two slap that he damaged my face. I was losing my mind because you cannot trust anyone. And the person you give him all your life, he did these things. From here, life is finish.</s>SUAREZ: She's one of seven other women at this Iranian Kurdish women's refuge who left home during the pandemic. With many more waiting for a room and a guiding hand. The manager here tells me COVID-19 has proven to be the perfect storm.</s>REFUGE MANAGER, IKWRO: They were intensely living together with the perpetrators. There was no time for them to breathe, no time to see friends, relatives, go out. Perpetrators has used their conceived control more authoritarian ways.</s>SUAREZ: According to "Women's Aid" April survey, 78 percent of women living with abusers felt they could not leave or get away because of the pandemic. Those that do escape face further anxieties. With a backlog in the criminal justice system and limited access to support services or safe havens.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Everything definitely taking longer, more uncertainty, more insecurity.</s>SUAREZ: This 40-year-old Iranian only recently managed to escape a husband of four years.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER (Foreign language, captioned): When life was very difficult for me with my husband, one time I tried to leave but didn't manage.</s>SUAREZ: Not even an attempted suicide that left her in the hospital cleared her path. She did eventually escape just days ago. And now tells me the pandemic only made it worse.</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER (Foreign language, captioned): When we were arguing with each other, we couldn't take time apart, one of us couldn't leave for a few days.</s>SUAREZ: He was violent to you, did he also sexually abuse you?</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER (Foreign language, captioned): Yes. I can't talk about it anymore because right now I'm seeing a therapist.</s>SUAREZ: Did the pandemic reveal the real man?</s>UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.</s>SUAREZ: Harrowing tales of intimate terrorism. At an uncertain time of heightened isolation. Isa Suarez. CNN, London.</s>VAUSE: If you know or someone -- if you, rather, or someone you know is affected by domestic violence, there is help. One website out there is endvawnow.com, End Violence Against Women. Still to come. Turning the state blue -- turning the state of Michigan blue. Again, one women has made it her mission to get voters to the polls to avoid another narrow win by Donald Trump.</s>BRIAN CHESKY, CEO, AIRBNB: People are still yearning to travel but they're traveling differently than they used to. They're not crossing borders, they're not traveling for business. But what they're doing is they're getting in a car and they're going two or three hundred miles to nearby destinations and they're staying in homes. What the guests have told us is they'd rather be in the private space of an Airbnb than crowded hotel lobbies or crowded elevators. And one of the things we did, we brought in the former surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Vik Murthy, and we worked with him to develop an enhanced cleaning protocol. Which is basically cleaning guidelines the host can get trained on and go through. More than one million listings have already gone through the cleaning guideline. And we're working really, really hard for this. But what we're hearing is people don't want to stay in crowded cities, they want to have a home to themselves. And this is why I think homes are becoming a really, really popular way for people to travel.

Witnesses Say Nigerian Forces Opened Fire on Protesters: India Struggles with COVID-19 and Pollution Crises

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Early voting is underway in record levels in the United States with election day now less than two weeks away. Long lines, rainy weather didn't really matter in Florida, where more than 360,000 have cast their ballots on the first day of in-person early voting. The swing state of Wisconsin also began early voting on Tuesday. CNN's poll of polls has President Trump trailing Joe Biden there. Also in Pennsylvania and Michigan, two other big battleground states, Donald Trump, who won Michigan by a very thin margin in 2016 appealing to white working class voters, this time Biden is doing well with white, less educated voters in the state. He is also banking on a heavy turnout of African-American voters in the suburbs of Detroit. CNN's Kate Bolduan caught up with black voters in Michigan and filed this report.</s>WENDY CALDWELL-LIDDELL, FOUNDER, MOBILIZE DETROIT: Ok. So let's say you aren't registered. So let you two registered ok. I think that the apathy has just grown and has JUST become so pervasive in our communities, because people are just trying to survive that we have to get back to empowering people. Let's cycle back this way.</s>KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 29-year-old Wendy Caldwell-Liddell is a woman with no shortage of energy. She doesn't work for any campaign, but since August, she says she's spent three days a week every week between her full-time job and taking care of two kids using that energy to try and convince fellow Detroit their vote matters.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: At this point, this is our survival now. What happens politically is a part of our survival and there is no escaping that.</s>BOLDUAN: 10,704. What does that number mean to you?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Is that how many votes Trump won by?</s>BOLDUAN: That's exactly how many votes.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: So that number. It hurts. It hurts.</s>BOLDUAN: Wayne County, which includes Detroit, went for Hillary Clinton by a wide margin in 2016. But she got about 76,000 fewer votes there than Obama did in 2012. Remember, Trump won the entire state by just 10,704 votes. Are you voting for Joe Biden or are you or more voting against Donald Trump?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: 80 percent against Donald Trump, 20 percent for Joe Biden. I would say that.</s>BOLDUAN: What does that mean?</s>F1: It means that I know that as a voter and as a black woman that there's a job that I have to do in order to get a representative who will come close to protecting my people in office. But I am not necessarily excited about having another representative there who, really, does not inherently understand the needs of our community.</s>BOLDUAN: Markita Blanchard, like Wendy, has lived in Detroit her whole life. But at 63 years old, she sees the choice this election a bit differently.</s>MARKITA BLANCHARD, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I'm 100 percent voting for Biden.</s>BOLDUAN: Does Biden make you excited?</s>BLANCHARD: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, he does. His enthusiasm, his past record -- it's like a charge.</s>BOLDUAN: President Trump says often that he has done more for the black community --</s>BLANCHARD: That's -- go ahead.</s>BOLDUAN: No, I don't even need to finish.</s>BLANCHARD: He is full of</s>BOLDUAN: Amber Davis is one of those Detroiters who voted for Obama in 2012, then didn't vote at all in 2016. Why didn't you vote in 2016?</s>AMBER DAVIS, MICHIGAN VOTER: I didn't want Trump, and I didn't want Hillary. I didn't really care who won that election.</s>BOLDUAN: So what is your plan this election?</s>DAVIS: I don't like Biden, but I'm voting for Biden. The coronavirus, everything that's going on is just horrible. So he's got to go.</s>BOLDUAN: One path to flipping Michigan blue again and a critical pursuit of the Biden campaign is getting those voters who sat out four years ago to show up this time.</s>BOLDUAN: And a sign the Trump campaign knows this, it has an office right down the road from the Democrats specifically targeting black voters in Detroit. How unusual is that to see, forget Trump, but a Republican presidential campaign open an office in here</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never seen it. I've never seen it ever, ever before.</s>BOLDUAN: But what does it tell you?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The importance of not only Michigan but Detroit in the black vote because the parties -- both parties need us, really.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to help me?</s>BOLDUAN: Everyone always talks about on TV, they always talk about how black women are the backbone of the Democratic Party.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: We are. We are. Black women are the backbone.</s>BOLDUAN: Do you think the Democratic Party takes you for granted?</s>F1: Absolutely. Absolutely. they take us for granted because they know that black women are going to help them get the big wins they need where it matters, but they also know that they can give us the bare minimum knowing that we aren't going to choose the other side.</s>BOLDUAN: What does that say about the country?</s>F1: It says we've still got a long way to go, when the backbone of the country is the most neglected.</s>BOLDUAN: This is a slice of the electorate, of course, not necessarily predictive of how the election is going to swing. But regardless of who wins, what is clear here, both parties have a lot of work to do to either hold on to or win over the support of these passionate, reliable voters, black women. Kate Bolduan, CNN -- New York.</s>VAUSE: In Lagos, Nigeria protest against police brutality turned violent as eyewitnesses say soldiers opened fire on demonstrators. Witnesses tell CNN multiple people were shot. The gunfire went on for at least 15 to 30 minutes. CNN's Eleni Giokos now joins us live for more on this. So where' here in a situation where there is a 24-hour nationwide curfew which has been put in place Tuesday. Was that kind of a circuit breaker here at least bringing a pause to the unrest? What's the latest.</s>ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. In fact, that was the reason that we saw an escalation of what happened specifically in Lekki at the toll gate. And remember this is ground zero And remember this is ground zero for the protestors and demonstrations that started the in-so campaign against police brutality and brute force. And we are hearing from eyewitnesses that the very thing that they were protesting against they experienced in many hours on Tuesday night. This is what we're hear. That people were shot at. We are hearing that ammunition continued for between 15 to 30 minutes and that there were bodies lying on the ground. These harrowing experiences have been echoed by many people that we've spoken to, many friends and families have been victims of this incident. And importantly, John, from what we've also been seeing live-streamed from Nigerian celebrities or pleas for medical assistance. People were actually barricaded into a small section on Lekki Bridge overnight. Also important to note here that this really escalated when the lights and the streetlights and CCTV cameras were removed by national security forces in Nigeria in that area. Many of the protesters say that this actually caused the escalation and that protesters were shot at directly. Essentially, we've actually also seen a lot of this protest action turning violent in many parts of the country and that's why a curfew was in state. But now Amnesty International says that they cannot confirm the fatalities, but they've heard credible as well as disturbing reports of brute force being used by police.</s>VAUSE: So Eleni, if we look at, you know, the reasons for these protests, which were about police brutality which is a fairly generic term. What seems to be the reason here is a police squad which specializes in everything which you would not expect from the police?</s>GIOKOS: Yes, exactly. And look this army -- this part of the police force was actually disbanded on the 11th of October. That was one of the demands from protesters. But they say that it's not enough. A new unit was actually put together, they say, the speed of which it was reconstructed it's very curious. Is this just a rebranding with the same people, no real new training has been conducted. And they are also asking for prosecutions. They're accusing this specific unit of harassment, kidnapping as well as extortion. And what's interesting is that This protest action has been ongoing in Nigeria for around two weeks now. And it really spread from Lekki into other areas of the country as well.</s>GIOKOS: We've also heard government saying that there's been vandalism by opportunists operating under the banner of the End SARS campaign, targeting specifically private sector infrastructure as well as government offices as well. And that is why you've seen curfews come into effect. But this is going to be an important turning point, John, in terms of the way that protesters and average Nigerians are seeing the way that government is responding to the calls of protesters that of course, started out very peacefully. They're saying that they disappointed, that they are upset, and, of course, that they're very angry. And that is the sense that we are getting from people on the ground. Look today, we're going to be hearing from the Lagos state governor to find out exactly just how many people were impacted. They have confirmed that there had been hospitalizations but they may tell you I also received so many calls from executive and business people than I worked with in the past very closely. And they are traumatized and they are upset at the latest developments. Now, it's going to be an important message from governments in the next few hours. The</s>VAUSE: Yes, absolutely. Eleni, thank you. Eleni Giokos there in Johannesburg live with the very latest. India is already dealing with the world's second highest number of confirmed cases of the coronavirus, more than 7.5 million and counting. But now comes another crisis and that's increasing levels of toxic air pollution. CNN's Vedika Sud has our report.</s>VEDIKA SUD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While India struggles to control its COVID-19 caseload, currently second only to the U.S., another health crisis has impacted Delhi and surrounding states. The iconic India Gate shrouded in small in the early of the morning. The city's worsening air pollution has walkers and cyclists gasping for breath.</s>MAANAS, DELHI RESIDENT: Earlier, I would ride my cycle without a mask. But now I can feel something troubling my throat.</s>NAVEEN JAIN, DELHI RESIDENT: This didn't happen earlier. I would go for walks during lockdown. I didn't feel any discomfort then, I feel it now.</s>SUD: Farmers burning the residue of their crops tens to make the air quality even worse at this time of year, along with all the usual pollution drivers like cars and industrial emissions and the burning of garbage. According to India's pollution control board, Delhi's air quality index in the first two weeks of October was worse than the same period in 2018 and 2019. Environmentalists say the government needs to be more proactive.</s>VIMLENDU JHA, ENVIRONMENTALIST: Delhi's air is not only polluted for these three months. Delhi has a bad air day for almost 250 days out of 365 days and therefore, we cannot wake up only in the month of October and think of a solution. We have to think of a solution which is 365 days or for the next five years.</s>SUD: Medical experts have expressed concern over the impact of rising air pollution levels during the pandemic.</s>DR. RANDEEP GULERIA, DIRECTOR AIIMS (ph): There are studies which have looked at a correlation between the rising levels of pollution and COVID-19 cases. And these studies tend to show that if there is one unit rise in tm 2.5, you can have a significant increase in the number of COVID-19 cases.</s>SUD: With no immediate solution in sight, it is a double whammy for the people of Delhi and bordering states. They are now banking on these masks not only to avoid contracting the virus, but critical respiratory illnesses as well. Vedika Sud, CNN -- New Delhi.</s>VAUSE: Well, the biggest legal challenge to the big tech in more than two decades. When we come back, the Justice Department claims Google is acting illegally to try and crush the competition.

Cathay Pacific Announces 5,900 Job Cuts Globally; U.S. Justice Department Files Antitrust Suit vs. Google.

VAUSE: Cathay Pacific, the latest carrier to eliminate jobs, a lot of jobs, about 8,500 positions worldwide. CNN's Selina Wang is live now for us in Hong Kong. This is huge. What -- about a quarter of the entire head count for the company, includes an entire regional airline.</s>SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, that's correct. It amounts to about 25 percent of the global workforce. These are the largest cuts in Cathay Pacific's history. More than 5,000 jobs being cut in Hong Kong, hundreds overseas. We have seen carriers around the world get slammed by the COVID-19 pandemic, but it's been especially rough in Hong Kong. Cathay Pacific was struggling even before the pandemic because of the Hong Kong protests that was significantly deterring mainland tourists from coming in to the city. It did receive a $5 billion bail-out package led by the Hong Kong government over the summer, but that hasn't been enough. It's still been losing hundreds of millions of dollars per month. And in the words of the CEO of Cathay Pacific Group, that is just simply unsustainable. If you compare that to some of the cuts around the world, Qantas has announced it's going to be laying off about 30 percent of its staff. Singapore Airlines about 20 percent. And in the U.S., of course, airlines are starting to lay off tens of thousands of employees despite the fact that the industry had received this $50 billion bail- out package approved by Congress earlier this year. And the International Air Transport Association is expecting this pain that these carriers are dealing with to continue. They don't expect passenger traffic to get back to pre-COVID levels until 2024. And when it comes to Cathay Pacific Group they are still going to be losing a lot of cash every month despite all of these cuts and all of these layoffs. The CEO said in a statement that, quote, "The global pandemic continues to have a devastating impact on aviation, and the hard truth is we must fundamentally restructure the group to survive," John.</s>VAUSE: Selina, hard times clearly for Cathay Pacific and all the airlines. Thanks for the update. Well, the Trump administration is taking on Google in the largest anti-trust case against the tech company in more than 20 years. In the lawsuit the Justice Department claims claim Google has stifled competition in online search and search advertising. An example given is Google's practice of paying billions to be the default search engine on smartphones. Google says this lawsuit is deeply flawed. CNN's John Defterios is in Abu Dhabi with more. You know, the antitrust has a long history in the U.S. that go all the way back to the oil industry and the railroads. And it's all about you know basically breaking up these big companies, so that they -- the competition is not stifled. I guess the question is, how strong is the case that the U.S. government has here against Google? And what's the likelihood that Google could be broken up?</s>JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well one would make the case John that this is happening very late, because of the dominance. This is a brand that is synonymous with search. That's how much of a player it is. And you have to go back to 1998 with a challenge against Microsoft for bundling the Windows package with his search engine which has spread worldwide, by the way. And that is the threat here. It's not only in the United States. But the European Union, the Japanese authorities, and Chinese authorities would do the same once the U.S. has raised a flag. As you suggested, the twist here is, there's actually accusations of paying to be the default search engine, with the phone manufacturers themselves. That is a very strong charge. Let's put this in a framework of a challenge from the Washington Belt Way against Silicon Valley. And in this administration, by the way, Silicon Valley is not popular. Let's take a listen.</s>DANIEL IVES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: I think we could start to see more and more pressure against these big tech giants, from business model tweaks to obviously break up to the more extreme. I think this is going to be a long battle, but ultimately, this is the first step in which is going to be getting many chapters against big tech.</s>DEFTERIOS: So you can already hear the narrative changing, John. And a little bit unusual is that we have 11 states involved in the case as well from Arkansas to Texas.</s>DEFTERIOS: I don't want to get too political about this, but this is the base for Donald Trump, right. So the southeast, all the way to the heart of the southwest.</s>VAUSE: Don't want to get too political, but politics seems to be invading everything 13 days before an election. And that is the timing which, again -- is that a curious issue here that, you know, that this legal action is coming before millions of Americans actually vote for a new president.</s>DEFTERIOS: Yes, it's hard to avoid that subject. And when we talk about the bigger play here, it's about breakup of some of the behemoths in Silicon Valley. So we start with Google itself. If you package Google with Facebook, and then the other names that come up or Amazon and Apple. But the first two control about 80 to 85 percent of online advertising. They crowded out others. And I've heard this for year, myself, John saying that, if you're a start up and you're trying to bust in to the online kind of market. it's very difficult to unlock the power that Google and the other players hold right now so. So this is a major challenge But you also should keep mind these cases usually take about four or five years to unwind. So what does Google say about it itself? Kent Walker is the senior vice president of global affairs that it relies on quote "dubious anti-trust arguments. But it does, John, I think if you take a step back, wonder why this has been going on for nearly 20 years, and particularly in the last decade, with all that dominance and the pervasiveness of the mobile phone and search, why wasn't it raised before, and can you break up companies of this size, and in a streamline fashion which doesn't undermine the innovation of the United States that's the leader in this face (ph).</s>VAUSE: Interesting times. John, thank you. John Defterios there in Abu Dhabi.</s>DEFTERIOS: Yes.</s>VAUSE: Appreciate it. We'll take a short break. When we come back, a mission 10 years in the making, an extraordinary one. A tiny spacecraft and an ancient asteroid and the potential to uncover the secrets of our solar system.

Trump Abruptly Ends White House Interview; Republican Groups Spending Millions against Trump; Coronavirus Pandemic Worldwide; Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in Interviewed on Alleged Kidnapping Plot; Grand Jurors in Breonna Taylor Case to Be Allowed to Speak.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause. Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, final stretch: with millions of Americans already voting early, Trump and Biden now rallying their base and trying to win over the rare and most elusive of all voter, the undecided. Manchester braces for a pandemic lockdown it did not want. Tough medicine from a prime minister whose new plan to control the second wave of the virus is falling apart. Desperate, times desperate measures. The U.K. set to directly infect volunteers with COVID-19 to learn which potential vaccines work and which do not. The health risks and ethical questions surrounding human challenge trials later this hour.</s>VAUSE: Since the very start of the campaign, the messages and actions coming from both Trump and Biden have been worlds apart. With 13 days until the election, closing arguments from both candidates could not be more different. Donald Trump returned to the battleground state of Pennsylvania on Tuesday. He warned a Biden administration would end fracking and kill the American dream. Earlier, he labeled Biden a criminal, urged an investigation by the attorney general but did not specify what should be investigated. The president also abruptly ended a White House interview with a respected journalist, falsely claiming she would not wear a mask. Joe Biden spent the day off the campaign trail preparing for Thursday's final debate. His wife made a number of campaign stops in Michigan. Meanwhile, early voting is now underway in Wisconsin. The president won the swing state by less than 23,000 votes four years ago. In Pennsylvania, the president performed his greatest hits for his supporters, complaining about the media, Dr. Anthony Fauci, China and other stuff. Aides say not exactly the message they were hoping for in the campaign home stretch. Here's CNN's Kaitlan Collins.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As the president was rallying his supporters in Pennsylvania on Tuesday night with two weeks to go before the election, he had at one point seemed to recognize the dire position he's in when it comes to political polling. Because he said if it had been before the pandemic, he likely wouldn't have even been in Erie, Pennsylvania. He basically told the crowd he had to show up given that his poll numbers right now are behind those of Joe Biden in Pennsylvania, a state that he carried in 2016. That rally came just a few hours after the president had sat down with CBS's Lesley Stahl at the White House for an interview for "60 Minutes," at which we are told the president ended the interview before it was scheduled to be done, after about 45 minutes because he grew frustrated with the line of questioning from Stahl. And we're told he left the room and did not come back to do what was supposed to be a taped portion of the interview with the Vice President, Mike Pence. And of course, then you saw the president go on Twitter. He taunted Lesley Stahl for at one point during the briefing -- or during the interview not wearing a mask. And then he threatened to release the interview before CBS News airs it next Sunday. Of course whether or not he ultimately does still seems remains to be seen, but what you are seeing with these two weeks to go before the election is the president is making his closing message attacks on reporters like CBS News, attacks on other reporters as well, including the debate moderator for Thursday night for that final presidential debate, but also on Dr. Anthony Fauci, someone he has repeatedly gone after in recent days. And this is not exactly the closing political message that aides had hoped he would have, given the fact that he is trailing Joe Biden in so many states with so few days left to go -- Kaitlan Collins, CNN, traveling with the president in Pennsylvania.</s>VAUSE: Joining me now from Oakland, California, Tim Miller, political director for Republican Voters against Trump, host of the "Not My Party" on Snapchat. Great to have you with us. I want to start with more from the Trump campaign rally, the likely superspreader event in Erie, Pennsylvania. Listen to this.</s>TRUMP: He will massively raise your taxes, bury you in regulations, dismantle your police departments, dissolve our borders, confiscate your guns, Second Amendment.</s>TRUMP: Oh, you're so lucky I'm president. You wouldn't have a second amendment. Eliminate private healthcare, terminate religious liberty, destroy the suburbs.</s>VAUSE: In case you didn't pick it up, he's talking about Joe Biden, the antichrist. None of that is actually true. Does it look to you like Trump kind of knows the reality TV presidency will not be renewed for a second season and he's moving on to the new role of Trump TV, an aggrieved old white man giving voice to aggrieved old white men across the U.S.?</s>TIM MILLER, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, REPUBLICAN VOTERS AGAINST TRUMP: Don't jinx it, John. I don't know. I can't get inside his head. This is a person that was told last time by the top people in his campaign that he was going to lose on Election Day. He thought he was going to lose in 2016. They told him he needed to stop tweeting, behave better, soften himself and he didn't listen to them last time and he won anyway. So I think that when you have that kind of experience, a narcissist like this president, it is hard to tell him to do anything other than what comes out of his natural id, which is that and all the other kind of weird grotesqueries and sidebars that he had today in Erie. And I think that is putting a ceiling on his capability to add voters as we head down the final stretch. But I don't think we are seeing someone who has just given up.</s>VAUSE: Over the last couple of, days we have seen some of the craziness come out, this mad King George feel, Trump has been dancing on the stage to the Village People in North Carolina. Then he launches into all familiar attacks at the usual targets. Listen to this.</s>TRUMP: You turn on CNN, that's all they cover. COVID, COVID, pandemic, COVID, COVID, COVID, CO-uh-huh. You know why? They're trying to talk everybody out of voting. People aren't buying it, CNN, you dumb bastards. We had this thing won. We were so far up. We had the greatest economy ever, greatest jobs, greatest everything. And then we got hit with the plague.</s>VAUSE: If you say that he is still in the, game what is the strategy here? Can you explain?</s>MILLER: I don't think this is a 4D chess move. This is just Trump emoting, lashing out at the people who have been mean to him, lashing out at his enemies and hoping that it works again. I think it's as simple as that. I don't think there's a lot of deep thinking involved. But I think one of the reasons this is different than 2016 is what he's talking about with the virus. He is very out of step with even some of his own voters about whether or not to take this seriously. We hear at Republican Voters against Trump, in our focus groups, which we only talk to people who voted for Trump last time that are on the fence now, they say they thought they would get a business man who would get stuff done and cut deals. They see him out here amidst this massive crisis not even trying to do anything for them, actually making fun of the idea that he should do something. A lot of them are disillusioned by that. And I think that's why you see his poll numbers down from where they were in March and from where they were the last time when he won.</s>VAUSE: The Lincoln Project is another group of former Republicans and they've produced some devastating anti-Trump campaign ads. Here is part of one.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): To save Americans, we must change presidents. On November 3rd, vote like your life depends on it.</s>VAUSE: So we go from the deadly serious, essentially, to ridicule again another campaign ad from The Lincoln Project.</s>VAUSE: It is a great, ad. But despite millions of dollars being spent trying to convince Republicans not to vote for Trump, in Erie, Pennsylvania, they were still chanting this.</s>TRUMP: They did a good job, I wouldn't have run. Thank you. Thank you.</s>TRUMP: "We love you. We love. You." Regardless of what happens in the next couple weeks, is this the end of the GOP? Does it survive as a cult if the cult leader is no longer there at some point?</s>MILLER: First of all, with The Lincoln Project, what we are doing in our vetting, and we working together, I don't think either of us are trying to get the number down to zero supporters for Trump. We recognize that he has a very rabid fan base. But I think there is a lack of appreciation for the fact that, last time, 15 percent that was unprecedented in American modern polling of his own voters said they had an unfavorable view of him.</s>MILLER: So it was actually quite a big swath of swing voters that are gettable. I don't think there is an appreciation for that a lot of times in the media and among other pundits. That's what we are talking to. As far as the future of the GOP is concerned, I wrote about this for "Rolling Stone" last week, I don't think the party is dead. I think the party is Trumpist. Because of the American system, the Republican Party could thrive as a minority party just doing well in the whitest states, the most rural states in the Midwest and South and across the Mountain West. The party could still have 48-50 senators by just focusing on those voters. So I think that's the future of the party. It's not something I see The Lincoln Project or us going back to. But I don't think it will just magically go away either because of the way our system works.</s>VAUSE: It's not exactly where the party thought it would be. That's a good point to finish upon. Thank you for being with, us we appreciate it.</s>MILLER: Anytime.</s>VAUSE: Take care.</s>VAUSE: Military leaders in the U.S. usually stay out of politics. But the retired admiral who oversaw the Navy SEAL raid which killed Osama bin Laden is endorsing Joe Biden. William McRaven says he's a strong conservative but the country is heading in such bad direction under Trump, it needs new leadership</s>ADM. WILLIAM MCRAVEN (RET.), U.S. NAVY: The fact of the matter is Donald Trump has been dismissive. You saw very early on in his presidency how he treated the NATO members. Now, I got it. Has NATO been living up to its 2 percent of GDP to support the NATO alliance? No. But there are better ways to handle it. And you don't, you don't disrespect some of our colleagues and our allies that have been around with us for 75 years. That's not the way to strengthen the alliance. That's not the way to push back against Russia. You look at the trans-Pacific partnership. Here was an opportunity to bring in 40 percent of the GDP in terms of our allies to be able to leverage that against China. And Trump elected not to do that. So, yes, what I know will happen under Biden is that he will be respectful of our allies. He will build those alliances. He will strengthen those coalitions. And that's exactly what we're going to need going forward.</s>VAUSE: Now to the latest on the coronavirus. Infections in the U.S. are soaring at levels not seen in months. Mooring (ph) 14 states have reported their most COVID hospitalizations ever in the past week. Experts say it's all evidence of the difficult northern winter which we will soon be facing. Here is CNN's Brian Todd.</s>BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At this nursing home in northwestern Kansas, an unmitigated disaster. 100 percent of its residents, 62 people, have tested positive for the coronavirus, county health officials say. And 10 residents have died.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: In congregate settings like nursing homes, this is a disease that could spread like wildfire. And this in fact is what we have seen before in nursing homes and tragically what we are seeing in this nursing home in Kansas as well.</s>TODD: Kansas is one of 31 states trending upward in new coronavirus cases tonight, only one state, Hawaii is dropping and 16 states, nearly a third of the country, are experiencing their highest seven- day averages for new cases since the pandemic began. One expert says the next four or five month's maybe the worst period of the entire pandemic.</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: We are at about 70,000 new cases a day. Probably by next week or the week after, we could be looking at a doubling of the number of deaths by the week after the inauguration.</s>TODD: Dr. Peter Hotez says things will get better by next summer, but that Americans have to get ready for some horrible numbers in the meantime and hang on. In Illinois, one of the states trending up in cases, officials say almost every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID related hospitalizations over the last week. And tighter restrictions on gatherings are coming.</s>STEVE BRANDY, SPOKESMAN, WILL COUNTY ILLINOIS HEALTH DEPARTMENT: It didn't happen by itself. People are being careless. People are getting cocky. People are thinking it's not going to happen to me. It's over. No, that is all wrong.</s>TODD: The Williamsburg section of Brooklyn in New York City is not in a so-called red zone of coronavirus hotspots there. But state officials barred a planned gathering in that neighborhood for the wedding of the grandson of an orthodox Jewish rabbi, a gathering where they say up to 10,000 people were expected to attend.</s>JUDITH HARRISON, ASSISTANT CHIEF, NEW YORK POLICE: We don't want to disrespect anybody. People are allowed to gather, but within reason. We want to make sure that there are no large gatherings in excess of 50 people.</s>TODD: As communities fight off outbreaks, the race for a vaccine gets more intense. The British government is planning to conduct the first so-called human challenge studies, where healthy volunteers are deliberately infected with the virus.</s>TODD (voice-over): And some receive an experimental vaccine. China says nearly 60,000 people have been injected with experimental vaccines during its phase three clinical trials. While in the U.S., the Health and Human Services secretary says officials hope to have enough vaccine by late March or early April to vaccinate everyone in America who wants one. But a leading vaccine expert puts that timetable a bit later.</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Early next year, you will start to see these vaccines rolling out to the highest risk group's first. And then by the middle of next year, the end of next year, hopefully we will then be getting more to the general public.</s>VAUSE: Thanks to Brian Todd for that report. Meantime, the number of coronavirus infections worldwide has surged past 40 million. High numbers in Europe and the Americas, where the second wave of the pandemic has arrived, leaving governments struggling to slow the spread. In Europe, where the number of fatalities is also soaring leaders, are re-imposing closures, lockdowns and curfews. Italy's Lombardy region, once an epicenter of the outbreak, will start a new curfew on Thursday. So too in Naples, on Friday. Curfews also under consideration in Spain, among the country's worst hit during the first wave of the coronavirus.</s>SALVADOR ILLA, SPANISH HEALTH MINISTER (through translator): We have very tough weeks ahead. Winter is coming. The second wave is no longer a threat, it is a reality, in all of Europe. The second wave is not a threat that could happen but is now a reality in all of Europe. It is the verification that the virus is present and circulating around us, in all of Europe and in Spain.</s>VAUSE: We will hear about the new restrictions in Germany and the Czech Republic in a moment. But first, CNN's Matt Rivers with the very latest in Latin America.</s>MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Argentina has now become the fifth country around the world to record more than 1 million confirmed cases of the coronavirus. Argentina now joins a list that includes the United States, India, Brazil and Russia although Argentina really stands apart from those four countries. All four of those countries have major populations, while Argentina has less than 50 million people. What we see is the government over the last few weeks has started to ease lockdown measures that in some parts of the country have been in place going back all the way to March. And as a result, we have seen infections really begin to rise quite quickly in Argentina. Now Argentina is certainly not alone in dealing with the coronavirus outbreak in Latin America. In fact, over the next few weeks, we do expect Mexico, Peru and Colombia to all cross that 1 million case threshold. And if you consider globally what's going on, if you look at the top 10 countries in terms of the country that have recorded the most coronavirus cases, five of those 10 countries are here in Latin America -- Matt Rivers, CNN, Mexico City.</s>SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in Berlin, where chancellor Angela Merkel is urging people to meet with as few other people as possible, even to stay home if you can. Last week, Merkel met with state leaders to agree on a set of restrictions for virus hotspots but some part of the countries have gone even further. One popular vacation area, near the Austrian border in the mountains, has just implemented a 2-week stay at home order, with exceptions for work and essentials. Meanwhile, in the Czech Republic, the health minister there has just announced, starting tomorrow, you will need to wear a mask, even outdoors, in urban parts in the country. Now there are some exceptions but this mask mandate is nearly as strict as the one that was in place in the spring. That mandate set the Czech Republic apart and also helped make the first wave of the virus barely a blip on the radar. But over the summer months, as the number of cases started to increase, Czech health experts were urging the government to re- implement the policy. But at the time, the populist prime minister, who had once even suggested that President Trump adopt the policy as well, said no. The Czech Republic is now reporting more new cases in the virus per capita than any other major country on Earth -- Scott McLean, CNN, Berlin.</s>VAUSE: Well, north versus south in England for pandemic restrictions, when we come back, Manchester leading a rebellion against the prime minister and his new plan, as he tries to control an outbreak of coronavirus.

Race for a Vaccine; U.K. to Infect Volunteers with Virus in Vaccine Trials

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, new trials of a coronavirus vaccine will soon get underway in the U.K. Only this time, volunteers will be deliberately infected with COVID-19 to test the effectiveness and the safety of vaccines in production. Now, already there have been some enthusiastic volunteers, signing up for what's known as human challenge trials. For more, here's CNN's Phil Black.</s>ALASTAIR FRASER-URGUHART, 1DAYSOONER VOLUNTEER AND COORDINATOR: Yes!</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alastair Fraser-Urguhart desperately wants to be infected with the coronavirus.</s>FRASER-URGUHART: I've just got the email!</s>BLACK: He's part of the campaign group 1DaySooner. It's been busy recruiting COVID-willing volunteers, so far tens of thousands around the world, and lobbying the U.K. government to use them for potentially risky research.</s>FRASER-URGUHART: I wake up thinking about challenge trials. I go back to bed, thinking about challenge trials.</s>BLACK: Challenge trials involve giving healthy people a potential vaccine, like this one, developed by London's Imperial College, then later testing it by deliberately dosing them with the virus.</s>FRASER-URGUHART: By taking that small risk on myself, I can potentially protect thousands of other people from, you know, having to be infected without consenting to it.</s>BLACK: Advocates say challenge trials are more efficient than the usual method of waiting for large numbers of test subjects to be exposed to a specific virus in the real world. With numerous COVID-19 vaccines being developed, some scientists think challenge trials could help identify the best of them sooner.</s>DR. MARTIN JOHNSON, SENIOR MEDICAL DIRECTOR, HVIVO: At the moment, governments are just having to buy at risk lots of different vaccines, hoping that one of them is going to work.</s>BLACK: Dr. Martin Johnson works for hVivo, the testing company hired by the British government to set up challenge trials for three possible vaccines. Its London facility has years of experience running similar programs with influenza and other viruses. But working with this new coronavirus is far riskier. The trials will be conducted at London's Royal Free Hospital, which has the U.K.'s only Category 3 bio containment ward. And the first round of volunteers will be exposed to the virus without getting a vaccine.</s>JOHNSON: We're basically watching disease in motion right from the very start of inoculation, right through to the disease going out of the body. So it gives us an absolute view of what is happening to -- to the human body during an infectious process.</s>BLACK: The company says challenge trials can be conducted safely, because treatments are now available, like the antiviral Remdesivir and the steroid dexamethasone. But the World Health Organization recently found Remdesivir doesn't appear to save COVID-19 patients' lives or help them recover sooner. And the data on dexamethasone is still early and limited. The ethics of the trials will be closely scrutinized. England's regulator will have to be convinced the risk is worth the potential reward.</s>TERENCE STEPHENSON, CHAIR, ENGLAND'S HEALTH RESEARCH AUTHORITY: A challenge trial would have to make the cogent argument that the benefits to society greatly outweighed the risk and that that evidence or those data cannot be achieved in a simpler, safer way.</s>BLACK: Volunteers will be strictly screened to exclude known risk factors. So those selected must fit a limited profile. They'll have to be young and very healthy. Alistair hopes he's in with a chance.</s>FRASER-URGUHART: If ever is a time to push the boundaries and discover how quickly we can do stuff, and how well we can do stuff, and to take on risks for other people, it's now.</s>VAUSE: Dr. Shoshanna Ungerleider specializes in internal medicine at the California Pacific Medical Center, and she's founder of the End Well Project and is with us this hour from San Francisco. Good to see you. Thank you for taking the time to be with us again.</s>DR. SHOSHANNA UNGERLEIDER, CALIFORNIA PACIFIC MEDICAL CENTER: Thank you for having me.</s>VAUSE: OK, right now, Doctor, according to the WHO, we have 44 human trials that are under way in 16 different countries. These are the ones that are considered viable. It is a relatively slow process. We were always told us this is the slowest part of approval for any vaccine. Is there a way of quantifying, if these were human challenge trials, how much quicker this entire process would be?</s>UNGERLEIDER: Gosh, John, that's a great question. It's a little hard to say. Because we truly are in unprecedented territory, right? The amount of work being done worldwide to find a viable vaccine for the novel coronavirus is -- is really unprecedented. What I can tell you, John, is that, if a vaccine candidate emerges, most likely, it will consist of two shots, spaced two or three weeks apart. And you know, at the earliest, I suspect widespread availability of a vaccine that we're all waiting for, hoping for, won't happen until the middle of next year. So it's really important, in the absence of these challenge trials, that Phase 3 trials, you know, get completed to determine safety and efficacy of a vaccine. They absolutely must take this process slowly, uphold the highest levels of scientific rigor and not be swayed by political or economic pressure.</s>VAUSE: Despite what everybody wants, there are no shortcuts here, unfortunately. And the World Health Organization weighed in on this and how these trials should be carried out and what the volunteers should know. Listen to this.</s>MARGARET HARRIS, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION SPOKESWOMAN: So generally, with such trials in the past, they were done when you had specific treatment. So you would expose the person to the virus, test the -- test the vaccine in the person who was exposed, give them the vaccine, give them the vaccine first, actually, and then expose them to the virus. But you would have a treatment. So, you must ensure that everybody involved understands exactly what is at stake. Must be selected to minimize the risk to the volunteer, and you must ensure that informed consent is rigorous, that they really do understand all the risks.</s>VAUSE: And that's the point here. You know, how can these volunteers, possibly know all the risks when each day, there seems to be new revelations about how harmful the virus can be, about the dangers to the long-term health impacts, the prognosis for those who have had it, that are still dealing with it. At this point, no one knows all the risks.</s>UNGERLEIDER: I think that's absolutely right. You know it, historically, human challenge trials have been used to provide insights, you know, into other diseases, like influenza and malaria. In the case of COVID-19, John, we do have more treatments for patients who become seriously ill with COVID than we did right at the beginning of the pandemic. However, the fact for me is we don't yet have an approved drug that's a cure. And so, if you're infecting healthy people with a potentially deadly virus, you need to think very, very hard about the ethical questions; be as certain as you possibly can that they are quite informed and then consent. This is largely uncharted territory, here.</s>VAUSE: Very quickly, the CDC came out with a new study which says the death toll of U.S. from COVID-19 is a lot higher than the official count, around 220,000. Researchers looked at what's known as excess deaths, comparing the death rate this year with the same period last year. They found that, basically, from early January through October, an estimated 300,000 more people than expected died in the United States. So as a measure of mortality, why is this methodology considered more reliable than the current count that we're getting from places like Johns Hopkins and the CDC?</s>UNGERLEIDER: Well, I'm not sure that it's more reliable. It's just more data. Right? So the official U.S. death count now is about 220,000 from COVID. It's likely not fully inclusive. These excess deaths that you mentioned may be from uncounted COVID-19, those who have died at home or just weren't tested. But this 300,000 number probably also includes people who died because they were scared to seek out medical attention because of the pandemic. And it's important to point out, lastly, that these excess deaths also occurred at higher rates among Latinx, Asian, American- Indian, and black people due to extreme disparities and access to medical care in the United States.</s>VAUSE: Dr. Shoshanna Ungerleider, we're out of time, but as always, thank you so much. We really appreciate you being with us.</s>UNGERLEIDER: Thank you.</s>VAUSE: We'll take a quick break. Back in a moment.

Airlines Test New App to Verify Passengers' Health Status

VAUSE: A new app could make travel easier and more accessible for those who have been vigilant in maintaining social distancing, avoiding crowds, and staying virus-free during the pandemic. The app, called Common Paths, verifies that someone has tested negative. Its first is on a transatlantic flight, which lands in Newark, New Jersey, later on Wednesday. More now from CNN's Anna Stewart.</s>ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The world is a patchwork of travel restrictions. Closed borders, quarantines, pre-travel testing requirements, all of which keep changing. (on camera): It's enough to put people off travel altogether, and that's damaging for the aviation sector, for tourism, for the whole global economy. However, one solution to travel could be the passport, not this kind but this: a digital health passport. The app has been developed by the Common Project Foundation, in partnership with the World Economic Forum. The concept is simple enough. A traveler checks the app to see what the COVID-19 rules are at their destination. For example, it may require a PCR test 24 hours before travel. The app tells the traveler where they can get a government-approved COVID-19 test and upload that test result in the app. If negative, the app generates a QR code confirming the traveler's compliance to be scanned by airline staff and border officials. However, testing prior to travel has its limitations.</s>DANNY ALTMANN, IMMUNOLOGY PROFESSOR, IMPERIAL COLLEGE: At that moment, that person is safe to fly or migrate or whatever it is, because they were PCR negative, which is probably, you know, meaningless if they were about to turn PCR positive five minutes after you do the test.</s>STEWART: Common Path says screening minimizes the risk and is already a requirement for entry into many countries. A trial of their app is underway for volunteer passengers flying with United Airlines and Cafe Pacific between London, New York, Hong Kong and Singapore. If it goes well, Common Path hopes more airlines and airports will use it in the future.</s>PAUL MEYER, CEO, THE COMMONS PROJECT: We've actually managed to convene over 50 countries that have come together, through dialog, that led up to Common Paths. Most of the world's biggest airlines, most of the world's biggest airports, and I think one of the realizations that they've come to through these sessions is this kind of system has to work in a globally operable way. It can't only work within one bubble, or with one travel corridor.</s>STEWART: If a COVID-19 vaccine is successfully developed, Common Paths hopes travelers will be able to log their vaccination into the app. Yes, there are concerns too little is known about vaccine efficacy.</s>ALTMANN: I wouldn't feel comfortable as a sort of minister of health to be, you know, stamping and sealing the legislation on the use of antibody (ph) passports on these places.</s>STEWART: Immunity passports are pie in the sky, at least for now. Helping people to take to the skies with an app that simplifies and coordinates COVID-19 travel restrictions, is at least on the horizon. Ann Stewart, CNN, London.</s>VAUSE: I'm John Vause. Back in 15 minutes, right after WORLD SPORT.

Michigan Governor Calls Trump's Rhetoric Dangerous; Black Woman Rallies Voters in Key Swing State of Michigan; Pelosi, Mnuchin to Resume Stimulus Talks Today

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer can sympathize with being the target of President Trump's attacks. She spoke earlier to CNN's Anderson Cooper about the President's rhetoric.</s>GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): We all have come to know that people like Dr. Fauci now have to have security because the rhetoric in this country has gotten so out of control. I've been confronting death threats since April when sights were first set on me. This is the culmination of this rhetoric and inciting and demonizing leaders, public servants who are just trying to save lives.</s>ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: For those who are going to be voting on election day, you know, we saw armed guys break into the statehouse in Michigan screaming at legislators, screaming at police. You know, this is I guess where some people involved in the plot against you actually kind of got together and met. The President said liberate Michigan. Are you worried folks like that are going to show up on election day essentially, you know, saying they're poll watchers, or whether it's that, or to intimidate people, are you prepared -- is Michigan prepared for that sort of thing?</s>WHITMER: We are preparing. I am fortunate that we have a great Attorney General in Dana Nessel, and our Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, we're working closely to make sure that every voter who waits until November 3rd and wants to go vote on election day is safe and knows that their ballot is going to be counted. And so, we are running tabletop exercises in preparation for this. But I also think it's important to remind people, you can vote right now in Michigan. So, to my fellow Michiganders who are watching, I encourage you to vote now. And if you have an absentee ballot, don't toss it in the mail. We're getting too close to the election. You should drop it off at the many drop boxes or at your clerk's office now.</s>CHURCH: And black women around Michigan are taking the governor's advice to vote ahead of election day. They're also going into their communities to make sure people know their vote can make a difference. CNN's Kate Bolduan has our report.</s>WENDY CALDWELL-LIDDELL, FOUNDER, MOBILIZE DETROIT: OK, so we're saying you don't voice if aren't registered. So, let's get you registered, OK. I think that the apathy has just grown and has just become so pervasive in our communities, because people are just trying to survive that we have to get back to empowering people. Let's cycle back this way.</s>KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 29-year-old Wendy Caldwell-Liddell is a woman with no shortage of energy.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Hey, did she talk to you already?</s>BOLDUAN: She doesn't work for any campaign, but since August, she says she's spent three days a week every week between her full-time job and taking care of two kids using that energy to try and convince fellow Detroiters their vote matters.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: At this point, this is our survival now. What happens politically is a part of our survival and there is no escaping that.</s>BOLDUAN (on camera): 10,704. What does that number mean to you?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Is that how many votes Trump won by?</s>BOLDUAN: That's exactly how many votes.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: So that number. It hurts. It hurts.</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): Wayne County, which includes Detroit, went for Hillary Clinton by a wide margin in 2016. But she got about 76,000 fewer votes there than Obama did in 2012. Remember, Trump won the entire state by just 10,704 votes. (on camera): Are you voting for Joe Biden or are you more voting against Donald Trump?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: 80 percent against Donald Trump, 20 percent for Joe Biden. I would say that.</s>BOLDUAN: What does that mean?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: It means that I know that as a voter and as a black woman that there's a job that I have to do in order to get a representative who will come close to protecting my people in office. But I am not necessarily excited about having another representative there who, really, does not inherently understand the needs of our community.</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): Markita Blanchard, like Wendy, has lived in Detroit her whole life. But at 63 years old, she sees the choice this election a bit differently.</s>MARKITA BLANCHARD, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I'm 100 percent voting for Biden.</s>BOLDUAN (on camera): Does Biden make you excited?</s>BLANCHARD: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, he does. His enthusiasm, his past record, it's like a charge.</s>BOLDUAN: President Trump says often that he has done more for the black community --</s>BLANCHARD: That's -- go ahead.</s>BOLDUAN: No, I don't even need to finish.</s>BLANCHARD: He is full of</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): Amber Davis is one of those Detroiters who voted for Obama in 2012, then didn't vote at all in 2016. (on camera): Why didn't you vote in 2016?</s>AMBER DAVIS, MICHIGAN VOTER: I don't want Trump, and I don't want Hillary. I didn't really care who won that election.</s>BOLDUAN: So, what's your plan this election?</s>DAVIS: I don't like Biden, but I'm voting for Biden. The coronavirus, everything that's going on is just horrible. So, he's got to go.</s>BOLDUAN: One path to flipping Michigan blue again and a critical pursuit of the Biden campaign is getting those voters who sat out four years ago to show up this time. And a sign the Trump campaign knows this, it has an office right down the road from the Democrats specifically targeting black voters in Detroit. How unusual is that to see, forget Trump, but a Republican presidential campaign opened an office in the west side of Detroit.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never seen it. I've never seen it ever, ever before.</s>BOLDUAN: But what does it tell you?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The importance of not only Michigan but Detroit in the black vote because the parties -- both parties need us, really.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Are you going to help me?</s>BOLDUAN: Everyone always talks about on TV -- they always talk about how black women are the backbone of the Democratic Party.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: We are. We are. Black women are the backbone.</s>BOLDUAN: Do you think the Democratic Party takes you for granted?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Absolutely. Absolutely they take us for granted because they know that black women are going to help them get the big wins they need where it matters, but they also know that they can give us the bare minimum knowing that we aren't going to choose the other side.</s>BOLDUAN: What does that say about the country?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: It says we've still got a long way to go when the backbone of the country is the most neglected.</s>BOLDUAN: This is a slice of the electorate, of course, not necessarily predictive of how the election is going to swing. But regardless of who wins, what is clear here, both parties have a lot of work to do to either hold on to or win over the support of these passionate, reliable voters, black women. Kate Bolduan, CNN, New York.</s>CHURCH: Later today House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin are expected to resume talks in an effort to find common ground on a major stimulus deal. Pelosi seems upbeat about the progress, but some Senate Republicans are not so optimistic. And CNN's John Defterios joins us now from Abu Dhabi with more on this. Good to see you, John. So, there's determination to keep talks going although Mitch McConnell doesn't seem to be very enthusiastic. How much pressure is coming from the American people to deliver something before election day?</s>JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, I think this is the change, Rosemary. It's a growing factor. I think it's a good sign that the 48-hour deadline has passed, and Speaker Pelosi and the Treasury Secretary Mnuchin are still talking, and it is -- November 3rd is the deadline. And you can see that voters are now saying we want to be involved. We want something on the table. So, let's take a look at some of the most recent polls on this issue. Seven out of 10 think they want a comprehensive deal. And I thought this was an interesting twist as well, 56 percent of the Republicans are saying the same. So, what's on the table? 2.2 trillion from the House Democrats, the White House said it would go as high as 2 trillion, officially at 1.8. Senate Republicans are at a half a trillion dollars. It's the so-called skinny bill in the name of austerity. In opposition is Chuck Schumer the senator from New York. Let's take a listen.</s>SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We can't have a deal that has virtually nothing. Even the one thing they say they might be for, which is some small business relieve. They leave out relief to restaurants, they leave out relieve to our independent venues, our stages. They leave out relief to nonprofits. They leave out relief to our rural hospitals, which definitely need help. So, they can't bring themselves to did anything. So, we're not even at the stage of talking compromise.</s>DEFTERIOS: But you can't talk compromise, Rosemary, because the gap is so wide. And there's another poll here suggesting that 72 percent of Americans want a comprehensive deal that is put forward in the House, and it passed at the end of June. The key points for them are the unemployment insurance benefits, of course. They are now around $300 on average. They would double to $600. And even as this controversial measure for the Republicans, and that is bailing out state and local governments. There's a lot of support out there for that. Now dear I say of course voters want handouts because it is a pandemic and they're suffering. At some point, probably in 2022 or 2023, no matter who is President, it will have to be paid back.</s>CHURCH: Yes, of course. John Defterios, many thanks for bringing us up to date on that situation. Appreciate it. With a second wave of the coronavirus sweeping through Europe, several regions facing tougher restrictions. But not all local governments are on board. A look at the push back when we come back.

British Prime Minister Imposes Tough Restrictions on Manchester; Ireland Imposing Strictest Restrictions for Next Six Weeks

CHURCH: Ireland is now gearing up to begin its second nationwide lockdown in an attempt to regain control of the coronavirus. The country will move to the toughest level of restrictions and urge residents to stay home for the next six weeks. Parts of northern England will also face stricter coronavirus measures. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is forcing the Greater Manchester region into its tier three alert level after failed negotiations with city officials over financial aid. For more CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is standing by in Manchester. But first let's go to Nic Robertson who joins me now from London. So, Nic, Ireland's six-week lockdown is an extreme solution. How necessary is this?</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the government's health advisors met in Ireland two weeks ago, went public saying the country was currently than on tier 3. And they said back then that the country should go to tier 5. Now that put a lot of pressure on the politicians, so Micheal Martin, the Taoiseach, the Prime Ministry if you will, addressed the nation saying that it was necessary now to follow the advice of the scientists. Telling people that only essential retail stores would be open. That people could not congregate, not sort of mix households indoors or even in gardens. They could do it in public places. That the retail stores, only the essential stores could remain open. That people would have to limit their travel to within five kilometers, three miles of their homes. That that was the limit for their exercise as well. So, all of this, a very tough lockdown again. People being told that only essential workers could travel to work, everyone else, if they could, should work from home. And the difficulty for people now is a real concern over livelihoods, particularly in the retail sector this is what a couple of store owners told us.</s>SHAY HOWLIN, CO-OWNER, "FUN PLACE": I would say devastated, to be honest. You know, I think it was flagged it was going to happen, but at the same time I was hoping that maybe common sense would prevail. Because, you know, from our point of view, we feel retail is a very safe environment.</s>JOHN FARRINGTON, OWNER, "JOHN FARRINGTON ANTIQUES": If you're strong enough, you can exercise. But there's a lot of people out there with a second shutdown would really, really find it hard to come through.</s>ROBERTSON: So, it's a real frustration among people in Ireland. On the one hand, across the -- that the scientists, the government advisers went public. There's a feeling that this conversation should have been had with the politicians behind closed doors. There're others that feel the government should have moved sooner rather than waiting two weeks for this lockdown. You know, just to give you some perspective, nationally across Ireland the infection rate is about the sort of middle bracket for Europe, 269 per 100,000. But there are parts of Ireland where it's very high. You know, tipping levels that are not seen elsewhere in Europe, at about 900 per 100,000. So, there is a real sense of concern that the health services in the country could be stretched beyond capacity. They don't have the reserves that some other European countries have in Ireland.</s>CHURCH: Yes, I mean there are just limited options here. That's the problem, isn't it? And Salma, let's go to you now. And after talks broke down, Manchester faces strict measures. So, what comes next?</s>SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, Rosemary, it's really played out quite dramatically. Here over the last 10 days we've had this bitter political dispute between leaders here in Manchester and of course, officials in Downing Street over their plans to raise the coronavirus alert level of the city to tier 3 restrictions. Essentially yesterday, Tuesday, the government basically said they're fed up with the talks, they're fed up with the bickering. They put down a noon deadline to either reach an agreement or they would act unilaterally to impose these restrictions. Of course, the deadline came and went, no agreement was made. The mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham says the reason why he's refused to implement these measures so far is because he's fighting for low paid workers. He says that the city needs a greater financial package to be able to deal with these restrictions. He's obviously not been able to reach that deal. Yet he is actually in front of the cameras at the moment he realized and got the news that the city would be forced starting this Friday, just past midnight local time, into tier 3 restrictions. Take a look.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo, it's a disgrace.</s>MAYOR ANDY BURNHAM, GREATER MANCHESTER, ENGLAND: It's brutal to be honest. Isn't it? What -- this is no way -- this is no way to run the country in a national crisis. It isn't. This is not right. They should not be doing this, grinding people down, trying to accept the least that they can get away with. Twenty-two million pounds to fight the situation we are in is, frankly, disgraceful.</s>ABDELAZIZ: Now you hear him mention that figure of 22 million. It was later made clear by the health secretary, Matt Hancock, that that figure actually being offered is 60 million pounds to the city from the government. Now the mayor has said that simply not enough for people to deal with the hardship under these restrictions. But look, beyond Manchester, this sets a precedent for the country. This What is the strategy here? That's what people are asking of the individual city, town and region going to get to spend days negotiating potentially their own restrictions, their own measures, their own financial package while the virus spreads through the population. Is that what a regional strategy means? And secondly, and perhaps most importantly, is the question of compliance. Now both the Prime Minister and the mayor of Greater Manchester have called on people to comply with these rules. But the question is if a city like Manchester feels like rules are being forced upon it by the central government, will people actually follow through -- Rosemary?</s>CHURCH: Yes, it is a difficult situation all around. Nic Robertson and Salma Abdelaziz, thank you to you both. Well, a new app could help make airline travel during the pandemic safer and get more customers back on board. We'll have the details. Back in a moment.

Airlines Test App to Verify Passengers' Health Status.

ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The world is a patchwork of travel restrictions. Closed borders, quarantines, pre-travel testing requirements, all of which keep changing. (on camera): It's enough to put people off travel altogether, and that's damaging for the aviation sector, for tourism, for the whole global economy. However, one solution to travel could be the passport, not this kind but this, a digital health passport. (voice-over): The app is be developed by the Commons Project Foundation, in partnership with the World Economic Forum. The concept is simple enough. A traveler checks the app to see what the COVID-19 rules are at their destination. For example, it may require a PCR test 24 hours before travel. The app tells the traveler where they can get a government-approved COVID-19 test and upload that test result to the app. If negative, the app generates a QR code confirming the traveler's compliance to be scanned by airline staff and border officials. However, testing prior to travel has its limitations.</s>DANNY ALTMANN, IMMUNOLOGY PROFESSOR, IMPERIAL COLLEGE: At that moment, that person is safe to fly or migrate or whatever it is, because they were PCR negative, which is probably, you know, meaningless if they were about to turn PCR positive five minutes after you do the test.</s>STEWART: CommonPass says screening minimizes the risk and is already a requirement for entry into many countries. A trial of their app is underway for volunteer passengers flying with United Airlines and Cathay Pacific between London, New York, Hong Kong and Singapore. If it goes well, CommonPass hopes more airlines and airports will use it in the future.</s>PAUL MEYER, CEO, THE COMMONS PROJECT: We've actually managed to convene over 50 countries that have come together, through dialog, that led up to CommonPass. Most of the world's biggest airlines, most of the world's biggest airports, and I think one of the realizations that they've come to through these sessions is this kind of system has to work in a globally operable way. It can't only work within one bubble, or with one travel corridor.</s>STEWART: If a COVID-19 vaccine is successfully developed, CommonPass hopes travelers will be able to log their vaccination into the app. Yes, there are concerns too little is known about vaccine efficacy.</s>ALTMANN: I wouldn't feel comfortable as a sort of minister of health to be, you know, stamping and sealing the legislation on the use of antibody passports on these places.</s>STEWART: Immunity passports are pie in the sky, at least for now. Helping people to take to the skies with an app that simplifies and coordinates COVID-19 travel restrictions, is at least on the horizon. Ann Stewart, CNN, London.</s>CHURCH: And thanks for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. "EARLY START" is up next. Have a great day.

Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) is Interviewed about the Stimulus Deal

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): You've got $2 trillion. They've come to $1.8 trillion and $1.9 trillion. What's the difference? The difference is in the details. That's where the devil lurks, in those details.</s>POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I -- yes. I wish we had more --</s>CLYBURN: So --</s>HARLOW: I mean I -- I think all Americans deserve to see many more details right now. And there -- there are just so many question marks. That said, your message yesterday was that this isn't going to change until the administration changes, if it does, and that's, you know, you hoping that Biden wins, but also you hoping that Democrats take the Senate. And even if all those things line up, we're talking about January 20th, so the end of January, February at the earliest. For any American out there, the 8 million more who are now in poverty than in March, is your message to them basically you're going to have to wait while we in Congress fight?</s>CLYBURN: No, I don't think that you have to wait until January. We're going to have a lame duck session. There's going to be a lot of stuff happening in the lame duck. The election is less than two weeks away and I believe we'll be back in Washington a week or two after the elections and we could do something then. At least the elections will be behind us, people will know what their futures are and maybe they will be more apt to sit down and get serious about things after their electoral process -- prospects have been settled.</s>HARLOW: Well, it's just a sad state then that, you know, relief like this, that both sides think the American people need, they don't agree on the particulars, but, you know, is waiting on an election. Let me ask you about the former president, Barack Obama, hits the campaign trail today for Joe Biden. And it comes at an interesting time when Joe Biden, yes, has more support from black men than President Trump, but President Trump has about 3 percent more black support from black young men than he did in 2016. That's about 17 percent now, it was 14 percent back then. Why do you think that is and what should we see, do you think, from President Obama on that front?</s>CLYBURN: I really don't think that's true. I know what the numbers say. I really don't. I have to look</s>HARLOW: Where should President Obama go and what should he say?</s>CLYBURN: Well, I think that President Obama will speak to black males in the way they should be spoken to. I think -- I welcome him to the trail. I really believe that he has tremendous influence in suburbia. He has tremendous influence on the campuses of historical black colleges and universities. There is one, Lincoln University, sitting right there in Pennsylvania. Fine to be in Philadelphia. But I'd love to see him get out there in Oxford, Pennsylvania, at Lincoln University, as well.</s>HARLOW: All right. So get out of the city, go to the suburbs. Let's end on this. If Judge Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed to the Supreme Court this week, if Joe Biden wins the presidential election, do you support a President Biden packing the Supreme Court?</s>CLYBURN: Well, I think the Supreme Court is being packed now. That I think we should not</s>HARLOW: But -- but more justices. To -- to the question of more justices, adding them, is that -- is that a good idea?</s>HARLOW: You do? You think it goes that --</s>CLYBURN: Absolutely I do believe that. I have said before and I believe very strongly that the Shelby v. Holder decision that got rid of the Voting Rights Act was the worst decision of the Supreme Court since Dred Scott. I said that. I believe that very strongly because I know what the vote does for people of color and I know what happened here in South Carolina and other states immediately after that decision when all of these onerous things were done to people's voting rights. That's what's going on right now, a massive suppress the vote effort made possible -- made possible by Holder -- or Shelby v. Holder would not happen but for that Supreme Court decision.</s>HARLOW: Congressman Clyburn, we'll talk more about this when we have you on next. We're out of time. But I appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.</s>CLYBURN: Thank you for having me.</s>HARLOW: Of course. Jim.</s>JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Listen, strong words there on that. I mean that decision basically said there was no more need to protect voting rights and, of course, we're seeing this election not true. People with non-COVID-19 related emergencies in Utah aren't getting the care they need because of the rise in hospitalizations for coronavirus. We're going to have a live report from Salt Lake City, next.

Early Voting in North Carolina; Threatening E-mails to Voters.

SCIUTTO: Well, a big story this election is an enormous jump in early voting. We're now just 13 days from Election Day. More than 2 million voters in North Carolina alone have already cast their ballots for 2020. Just 700,000 early votes had been cast in the state at this time in 2016, Poppy, nearly three times the rate so far.</s>HARLOW: It's huge. Our Dianne Gallagher joins us from Charlotte, North Carolina. Dianne, good morning. Good to have you. What more do we know about these voters?</s>DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, to give you an idea of just how astronomical these numbers are right now, there are about 7.2 million registered voters in North Carolina, with 2.1 million votes already cast, that's about 30 percent of all the registered voters in North Carolina that have already cast their ballots. Now, more than half of them did what these good people here are doing, they stood in line for early voting, which has only been open for about six days here. More than 1.5 million voters that way. Now, we've talked a lot about absentee by mail ballots. And when we're looking at those numbers coming back right now, Democrats represent toughly 46 percent of those that were requested, but 41 percent of those that have been returned. Republicans, 19 percent of the ballots requested, 24 percent of those returned. And, look, this is something we're seeing play out across the entire nation right now. And 33.4 million votes have already been cast across the country. You take a state like Texas, for example, 5.3 million votes already cast. So these numbers are ramping up, everywhere, Jim, Poppy. And, of course, this is a battleground state here in North Carolina. To show you how important those votes are, tonight President Trump has a rally. Today, Senator Kamala Harris here in North Carolina as well.</s>HARLOW: Clearly a lot of focus on the state --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: And a lot of people engaged, which is a good thing. Thanks, Dianne. Well, more than 33 million ballots already cast across the entire country. That has federal officials with their hands full trying to safeguard your vote.</s>SCIUTTO: So let's let you know what they're doing. Election officials in Florida and Alaska are now in contact with law enforcement authorities as registered voters in both states say they've received threatening vote for Trump or else e-mails. Those emails may have come from overseas. This is one of President Trump's top political appointees in the Homeland Security Department is urging voters to be patient, saying there is a less than 50 percent chance that a winner will be declared on election night. Now, let's go over all these headlines with CNN's Kristen Holmes. She's in Washington. Kristen, what do we know about where these threatening e-mails are coming from, might have come from, and how many voters have received them?</s>KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim and Poppy, it's not a small number. At the University of Florida alone, the spokesperson there said roughly 183 people received that e-mail. We know there are at least dozens more. So in terms of who it came from, well, to the voter, it appeared to be coming from a far right group known as The Proud Boys. Now, the chairman of that group denies having anything to do with that. In fact, says he's working with the FBI. He wants the person to be punished for impersonating the group. We obtained a copy of the e-mail and we sent it to an analyst who said that they believed it came from a foreign Internet structure, an infrastructure. So something we're focusing on here is this foreign interference, but, of course, we are still at the beginning phases of this investigation.</s>SCIUTTO: Also we know that it's possible we may not know the winner of the presidential election until a few days after the Election Day, or at least not on election night. We just don't know at this point. What is the DHS saying to prepare Americans for that possibility?</s>HOLMES: Well, this is very interesting because it sounds nothing like what President Trump is doing to prepare people, which is essentially saying, baselessly, that if there is no result on election night, that it's because of fraud or a rigged election. And, again, there is no fact to that. However, these senior DHS officials, they sound very different. They are urging patience. And, in fact, Ken Cuccinelli, senior official at DHS, said not only is there a very good chance that we won't have those results on election night. He also said that doesn't mean that something isn't working. So, really, an opposite message here.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. Right. Listen to them, OK, and they are the president's appointees and with a contradictory message to him about how this election will play out in terms of fairness and safety. Kristen Holmes, thanks very much. If you want to find your polling station, your voter registration status, or get information on how to properly cast absentee or -- ballots, mail-in ballots, or to vote early, go here, cnn.com/vote gives you all of the facts, not the disinformation, that you need. Well, three years after it started, separating families at the U.S./Mexico border, that is children from their parents. The Trump administration now says it cannot find the parents of more than 500 separated children. Imagine that.

Dems, New: Boston Public Schools Suspend All In-Person Learning

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Boston public school suspending all in person learning for students starting tomorrow. City officials cite a surge of new coronavirus cases. CNN's Bianna Golodryga joins me now, a setback without a doubt Bianna.</s>BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A setback, John, for parents and for students trying to get kids back into school. The city had been hoping to start a phase three reintroduction plan in just the coming weeks. Obviously this sets this back, the city seven day COVID average positivity test rate was reported at 5.7 percent. And that's an increase from last week's 4.5 percent. Students, the bad news here will remain in remote learning until there are two full weeks of falling infection rates. Mayor Marty Walsh said in a statement, we have said all along that we will only provide in person learning for students if the data and public health guidance supports it. And this new data shows that we are trending in the wrong direction. John, this was done in consultation with public health officials there and the superintendent of the school district there put it well when she said in a tweet, I'm disheartened having to close schools to our highest need students. I say -- I often say it is the adults who create the conditions in which children succeed. We must do better. Please wear a mask, avoid large gatherings, and stay home if sick so we can bring our children back to school. And this comes just on the heels of a New York City mayor saying the testing is going well in the city. They've only had 28 positive tests out of 16,000 conducted so far. So really a tale of two cities, but it's the children, it's the parents that are the ones that are on the losing end here.</s>KING: So the product of those Boston public schools. It is a sad day that is without a doubt a setback. Bianna Golodryga, thank you so much for the important reporting there. We'll continue to track this around the country. I suspect there will be more as the case count continues to go up. When we come back, back to campaign 2020, Michigan a key state in the presidential race, the turnout of black women absolutely essential for the Democrats.

Mobilizing Black Voters In Michigan Key For 2020 Election.

KING: We count votes 13 nights from now. We will start filling in this map as your votes are recorded. And as we watch this map fill in, we will be guided by this map, the map that made Donald Trump president. One reason he is president is he flipped Michigan from blue to red. One reason he flipped it from blue to red is because here even though Hillary Clinton won in Wayne County, home of Detroit, that number looks great, 67 percent of the vote. That number 519,000 votes was not high enough, was not high enough, turnout was down. In this pandemic age many people in the city especially in the African American community worried that people are tired from the pandemic will they turn out? Well, one woman has made it a personal mission to make sure Detroit voters don't sit this out. Kate Bolduan has more.</s>WENDY CALDWELL-LIDDELL, FOUNDER, MOBILIZE DETROIT: OK. So we're saying you don't -- you aren't registered. So, let's get you registered, OK? I think that the apathy has just grown and has just become so pervasive in our communities, because people are just trying to survive that we have to get back to empowering people. Let's cycle back this way.</s>KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-nine-year-old Wendy Caldwell-Liddell is a woman with no shortage of energy.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Hey, did she talk to you already?</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): She doesn't work for any campaign, but since August, she says she's spent three days a week every week between her full-time job and taking care of two kids using that energy to try and convince fellow Detroiters their vote matters.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: At this point, this is our survival now. What happens politically is a part of our survival and there is no escaping that.</s>BOLDUAN (on camera): Ten thousand seven hundred and four, what does that number mean to you?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Is that how many votes Trump won by?</s>BOLDUAN: That's exactly how many votes.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: So that number. It hurts. It hurts.</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): Wayne County, which includes Detroit, went for Hillary Clinton by a wide margin in 2016. But she got about 76,000 fewer votes there than Obama did in 2012. Remember, Trump won the entire state by just 10,704 votes.</s>BOLDUAN: (on camera): Are you voting for Joe Biden or are you more voting against Donald Trump?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Eighty percent against Donald Trump, 20 percent for Joe Biden. I would say that.</s>BOLDUAN: What does that mean?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: It means that I know that as a voter and as a black woman that there's a job that I have to do in order to get a representative who will come close to protecting my people in office. But I am not necessarily excited about having another representative there who, really, does not inherently understand the needs of our community.</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): Markita Blanchard, like Wendy, has lived in Detroit her whole life. But at 63 years old, she sees the choice this election a bit differently.</s>MARKITA BLANCHARD, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I'm 100 percent voting for Biden.</s>BOLDUAN (on camera): Does Biden make you excited?</s>BLANCHARD: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, he does. His enthusiasm, his past record, it's like a charge.</s>BOLDUAN: President Trump says often that he has done more for the black community --</s>BLANCHARD: That's -- go ahead.</s>BOLDUAN: No, I don't even need to finish.</s>BLANCHARD: He is full of -- you know what I'm saying? He has not done nothing. I've had people say, well, he's not my president. I didn't vote. I said well, did you vote at all. They say no, I didn't vote. I say, if you did not vote, you did vote for him.</s>BOLDUAN (voice-over): Amber Davis is one of those Detroiters who voted for Obama in 2012, then didn't vote at all in 2016. (on camera): Why didn't you vote in 2016?</s>AMBER DAVIS, DETROIT RESIDENT: I don't want Trump, and I don't want Hillary. I didn't really care who won that election.</s>BOLDUAN: So, what's your plan this election?</s>DAVIS: I don't like Biden, but I'm voting for Biden. This coronavirus, everything that's going on is just horrible. So, he's got to go.</s>BOLDUAN: One path to flipping Michigan blue again and a critical pursuit of the Biden campaign is getting those voters who sat out four years ago to show up this time. And a sign the Trump campaign knows this, it has an office right down the road from the Democrats specifically targeting black voters in Detroit. How unusual is that to see, forget Trump, but a Republican presidential campaign opened an office in the west side of Detroit.</s>MARY SHEFFIELD, DETROIT CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT PRO TEM: I've never seen it. I've never seen it ever, ever before.</s>BOLDUAN: But what does it tell you?</s>SHEFFIELD: The importance of not only Michigan but Detroit in the black vote because the parties -- both parties need us, really.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Are you going to help me?</s>BOLDUAN: Everyone always talks about on T.V., always talk about how black women are the backbone of the Democratic Party.</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: We are. We are. Black women are the backbone.</s>BOLDUAN: Do you think the Democratic Party takes you for granted?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Absolutely. Absolutely they take us for granted because they know that black women are going to help them get the big wins they need where it matters, but they also know that they can give us the bare minimum knowing that we aren't going to choose the other side.</s>BOLDUAN: What does that say about the country?</s>CALDWELL-LIDDELL: It says we've still got a long way to go when the backbone of the country is the most neglected.</s>KING: Fantastic piece from Kate Bolduan. Let's continue the conversation now with Erin Keith, she's a social justice attorney and a Michigan Democratic voter. It's good to see you again, Erin. So Wendy, in that piece there said she's 80 percent against Trump, 20 percent for Biden. Where are you?</s>ERIN KEITH, SOCIAL JUSTICE ATTORNEY: Well, I think quite frankly, one of the things that I've been thinking about is that I don't have to necessarily agree with Biden philosophically on every issue in order to stand with him against Islamophobia, racism, xenophobia, sexism. So I think similar to Wendy, I probably am voting against Trump, but also for a lot of things that I believe in.</s>KING: And so I want to put up the numbers again, Kate talked about them in that excellent piece. If you go back to Wayne County four years ago, this is what I do on election nights, I count votes. You see the margin there. Hillary Clinton got 519,000 plus votes. That was great. It was almost 67 percent of the vote. But if you look at Obama, 2012 and Obama 2008, the numbers went down every time, right? She lost the state by 10,704 votes, there are 76,000 fewer voters, 76,000 fewer people in Wayne County voted Democrat for president in 2016 than did in 2012. I know the population has shrunk a little bit so maybe you could take 10 or 12,000 votes, 15,000 votes there. But what happened? Why was the turnout not there in the community for Hillary Clinton? And do you believe it will be different this time?</s>KEITH: Absolutely. So I definitely think it will be different this time. For starters, we are living through a completely different social construct. We are living through a completely different moment in American history. Speaking of Detroit, specifically, I don't think people who didn't come out and vote in 2016 could have anticipated that their failure to vote would lead to a pandemic, where many of their neighbors, many of the people in their communities literally would lose their lives. And so I think that that makes a huge difference in terms of why people come out and vote. I also think having Kamala Harris on the ticket helps a great deal. I think the Biden, you know, administration knew what they were doing when they selected her to be his vice presidential running mate. So I think those things will definitely mobilize voters in our city.</s>KING: So you have, as you say, maybe a mobilization people in the African American community thinking this President has not served us well in this pandemic. And then compare that though you also have the safety concerns of people, especially older, you've seen the health care disparities of the pandemic. What is your sense of the early voting and the attitudes for voting, the accessibility of voting in the community? Is it where it needs to be? And do you see turnout in the early days where you feel more comfortable?</s>KEITH: Absolutely, I think I've seen more people early voting this around than I've ever seen in the history of the time that I've been voting since I was 18 years old. I can definitely speak to the fact that there are limitations. Certain people in our community may not feel safe. But I personally have seen the lines long. I've had friends reach out to me about local candidates who are they're interested in voting for and asking questions about different proposals on the ballot. They're doing their research. So I think that not only are people going to come out in droves to vote Trump out, but they're coming out in droves, because again, they care about these issues that are happening in our community, and they realize they are reinvigorated to vote because of Donald Trump and because of voting him out.</s>KING: Erin Keith, it's good to see you again. And we'll keep in touch as we go through the remarkable 13 days before us and maybe a few more accountable. Erin, thanks so much. Appreciate it.</s>KEITH: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.</s>KING: Coming up for us, a global perspective on the coronavirus, Ireland goes under a strict lockdown midnight, tonight.

U.S. Surgeon General Says Herd Immunity Could Lead to Many Deaths; Early Voting Underway in Wisconsin as COVID Cases Surge in the Midwest; Trump Leans on Rallies, Attacks in Final Days Before Election; Obama Hits Campaign Trail for First Time for Biden; Hospitalizations of COVID Cases Surge Again Across the U.S.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Wednesday to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.</s>POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. This morning the nation's top doctor is warning against herd immunity as any form of strategy to try to combat COVID. This is even as other senior White House officials have embraced the idea. U.S. surgeon general Dr. Jerome Adams says doing so would lead to overwhelmed health care systems and far too many American deaths. Well, currently not a single state in the country is trending in the right direction and the former head of the FDA is warning we're just about a week away from seeing a, quote, "rapid acceleration in cases." Hospitalizations across the nation are at the highest level we've seen in two months and now some states are going back to tougher restrictions.</s>SCIUTTO: And so in the middle of this worsening health crisis there is a nation divided politically. Sharply. A critical election just 13 days away and tomorrow the final presidential debate, President Trump is digging into his rally strategy in the final stretch while Joe Biden prepares for the final face-off. Former president Obama is set to make the case for his former vice president on the trail for the first time today. More on the 2020 race in just a moment. First, though, let's begin with CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen on this warning about herd immunity from the surgeon general. This is important because the member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force that the president appears to be listening to, Scott Atlas, has been pushing this publicly. You have the surgeon general pushing back hard.</s>ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Dr. Atlas is not a seasoned public health professional and it shows when he starts advocating for herd immunity. Herd immunity in a nutshell is the theory of just let it rip, just let the virus rip, protect the people who might be vulnerable, tell them to put limits on their lives, and let the rest of us just live. It's a pretty, you know, enticing theory. The problem is it doesn't work, which is what Dr. Adams, the surgeon general, is trying to point out. There are many problems with it, just to name a few, first of all, when people espouse this theory like Dr. Atlas does there's sort of this assumption that there's only a very, very small number of people who are vulnerable to COVID-19 and that's not true. People over age 65 are vulnerable for serious complications, so are people with heart disease, so are people with diabetes, the list goes on and on, thinking your own life, you know many people who fall into these categories. It is a big huge chunk of the American public. The other problem is that even if you are in the group that isn't at high risk, you can still get COVID-19 and have very long lasting consequences. Well, first of all, you could die, but second of all even if you don't, even if you survive it, you could have long-lasting consequences. I mean, I personally, and I'm sure we all do at this point, know people who got COVID, were perfectly healthy to begin with and under 65, but months later are still suffering -- Jim, Poppy.</s>HARLOW: Yes. For sure. Elizabeth, before you go, what more do we know about the troubling trends in terms of the new cases and the -- in some states, record hospitalizations, the highest of this entire pandemic?</s>COHEN: Right. These hospitalization rates are headed back up. Again, unfortunately back up towards where they were over the summer. And so when you look at these hospitalizations in some states they are at record highs. And this is really unfortunate, again, heading in the wrong direction as we head into the winter when people will spend more time indoors and therefore in smaller enclosed spaces where they could be giving each other COVID-19.</s>SCIUTTO: Advice to heed. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much. This morning new cases skyrocketing in particular across the Midwest. Despite that long lines are forming for early in-person voting in places such as the battleground state of Wisconsin. The turnout just incredible.</s>HARLOW: Our Omar Jimenez joins us again this morning in Wisconsin with more. Good morning, Omar.</s>OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jim and Poppy. Well, today is day two of early voting in person here in Wisconsin. You see the line that is ready to, again, come in and make their voices heard in person on this second day. Doors just opened not too long ago. But you'll notice everyone here is wearing masks and that's because we are dealing with two phenomenons here in Wisconsin. One, voting of course, but also the pandemic that has been ongoing for this year and particularly devastating for Wisconsin. Just this past Monday they had around 2,000 confirmed cases with a positivity rate over 21 percent. And just yesterday they were just one shy of their single-day death record here in Wisconsin, a record that was set just a week ago. And these are trends that we have seen across the Midwest in places like Indiana, for example, setting record numbers that we have seen in this pandemic. And Illinois, for example, the governor has now had to impose stricter -- more restrictions I should say on certain regions of that state. The threshold had been 8 percent to take more action and two more regions hit that so now they are having capacity for gatherings go from 50 down to 25. No indoor service for bars or restaurants and then service for outdoor places stopped at 11:00 p.m. And again, these are all restrictions that states are now having to reimpose and coming up with new ideas to try and get those numbers down, and drive those positivity rates down from what we thought was going to be a previous high in the springtime but we have now seen of course resurging, and get to levels that we had not seen previously. And then to bring it back here to Wisconsin, if you remember, they had that primary back on April 7th where there were worries that lines like this would lead to higher rates of spread of COVID. Well, at that time the confirmed daily case rate number I should say was under 150 with a positivity rate under 10 percent, and of course I just told you where we are now, exceedingly further than where we thought we would be months ago -- Jim, Poppy.</s>HARLOW: Yes. Thank you for being there for that reporting. Pretty upsetting numbers obviously. Well, the president despite all of these numbers and the increases we're seeing is sticking to his rally strategy. He'll do that today in North Carolina. His other strategy this week, attack Dr. Fauci, but it's not sitting well, particularly with one Republican ally.</s>SCIUTTO: A source familiar with conversations with the president tells CNN that the ally flatly told Trump that attacking Fauci is, quote, "the dumbest thing in the history of politics." CNN's John Harwood outside the White House this morning. Listen, the president has ignored mainstream advice, if you want to call it that, for four years now. I imagine in the final 13 days here you don't expect him to change his tack leading into the election.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, you wouldn't and you've got to say, Jim, that the president is providing stiff competition for the dumbest thing ever in the history of politics, not just going after Fauci, having these maskless rallies, going around preemptively, blaming everyone from the debate commission to Fauci to Bill Barr to Democrats, to the media. He's almost behaving like a quarterback in a football game who is pre- preparing excuses for why he lost the game and saying the refs are against me, the other team is cheating and my own receivers aren't any good. This is a situation where the president is his own boss. He has walled himself off from the reality of the pandemic pretending it's not -- pretending it's not raging and that he doesn't have to do anything about it, stalked out of an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes" because she was pressing him on the coronavirus and he did not want to take the heat.</s>SCIUTTO: "New York Times" reporting last night new details about something we didn't know about, an undisclosed bank account of Donald Trump's in China. What do we know?</s>HARWOOD: What we know is that from this "New York Times" reporting is that there are three countries overseas where the president had bank accounts, one is Britain, one is Ireland and one is China. And it raises the question again as to -- which we've seen raised time and time again with the president -- of whether the accusations he's lobbing against his opponents are simply projections of things that he knows he's vulnerable on. He's tried to cast Joe Biden as somebody in meshed with China, protecting China, China wants him to win. He's got a bank account in China, he's tried to do business with China, China's largest state controlled bank rented space in Trump Towers until recently so Trump was making money from China. This is just underscoring ways in which the president is doing things that he accuses his opponents of trying to do.</s>SCIUTTO: John Harwood, we know you'll stay on top of it. Thanks very much. Joe Biden's star endorser will be on the trail today. President Obama will be in Philadelphia, campaigning in that key swing state of Pennsylvania. Commonwealth, I should say. For the former vice president in person for the first time.</s>HARLOW: Let's bring in our Jessica Dean. Good morning to you, Jess.</s>JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.</s>HARLOW: So what is the message we're going to hear from President Obama today?</s>DEAN: Yes, good morning to both of you as well. Well, we can expect to hear from President Obama a lot about early voting and a pitch for Joe Biden. Notice that they are sending Obama out on the campaign trail on this day when Joe Biden is off the trail preparing for the debate. We'll get to that in just a second. But Obama going to, as you mentioned, that critical swing state of Pennsylvania, that's very much on purpose. We're told that Obama will be deployed to states where early voting is under way. They really believe that that's where he can make a key difference. And one of the demographics that they're really hoping that he can help with and motivate are young voters. And we saw him tweeting out a message yesterday as he prepared to go on to the campaign trail today, really pitching Joe Biden to young voters, telling younger voters that their generation can be the one that makes the difference in this election. So we can expect to hear a lot about that from Obama. And also here, you notice I'm inside the debate hall where the final presidential debate will be held in Nashville, finishing touches being put on the stage here as Joe Biden himself prepares for Thursday night's debate. We're told by a campaign adviser that they're preparing for President Trump to, in their words, bully and deflect on that debate stage on Thursday night. They are also preparing for personal attacks both on Joe Biden and his family, and that we should expect Biden to really take a similar approach and goal as he did in the last debate which is to speak directly to the American people. You remember he would look right into the camera and talk to people at home. We should expect more of that. They want to talk about the coronavirus pandemic, what Biden would do to get it under control, and also what he would do to bring back the economy. And we also heard from Biden for the first time yesterday on this new rule change which will allow the microphones to be muted for whomever is not speaking at the time. Biden telling a local news reporter in Wisconsin, guys, he thinks that is a good idea.</s>HARLOW: We'll see how that works out. Jess, thanks for being there. Big, big night tomorrow night for sure and our special coverage of the final presidential debate, it begins tomorrow night 7:00 Eastern right here on</s>CNN. SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the former FDA commissioner warning we could see a surge in coronavirus infections in just the next week. What that might look like?</s>HARLOW: Also the deadline has come and it has gone, but are we any closer to a stimulus deal that so many Americans need? We will speak with the House majority whip, Congressman James Clyburn, ahead. And in Utah, doctors pleading for the public to follow COVID guidelines.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Emergency, where nurses or doctors on all these COVID units in the ICU working tirelessly. It's kind of like people are just going out and living their lives, not realizing that they are exhausting our health care system.</s>HARLOW: An important warning. We'll take you live to Salt Lake City where cases are sharply on the rise.

Nevada Governor Pleads with Citizenry not to Get Tired with Observing Health and Safety Measures

SCIUTTO: All right. So here are the sad facts. Right now coronavirus infections in the U.S. are spiking. Twenty six states with an increase in new infections from last week, no states are seeing their numbers decline. Here is the governor of Nevada.</s>GOV. STEVE SISOLAK (D-NV): We all feel COVID fatigue, and it results in riskier behavior and complacency. We cannot let that happen. Unfortunately, this virus doesn't get fatigue.</s>SCIUTTO: Well, joining me now is someone who knows that well, Dr. Manisha Juthani; she's infectious disease specialist at Yale School of Medicine. Doctor, thanks so much for joining us this morning.</s>MANISHA JUTHANI, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, YALE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Good morning, Jim, thanks for having me on.</s>SCIUTTO: So, let me ask you, you heard those statistics there, you heard a governor pleading with the people in Nevada to not get fatigued here, and at the same time you have warnings of the next week in particular, seeing a big jump in new infections. To folks at home who understandably want to get on the other side of this, what is your message to them right now about what they need to do for their health -- for their own health and the health of the people close to them?</s>JUTHANI: We all have COVID fatigue, but as the governor said, the virus does not. It's time to push forward, and with Autumn here and Winter coming, colder weather, less humidity, the virus loves to spread in those conditions. We have not seen that here in the United States yet. It's darker, it's colder. The number one intervention we can do is wear a mask. I know people are tired of hearing that, but it is the truth. And it's true because even when you wear a mask, even if you're exposed to COVID, you might get a lower dose of the virus, get a lower exposure and have a milder case of the infection. So there are so many reasons, we just have to double-down. And I know we can't say no to everything, but we have to find ways to do things safely, just like if you're a parent and you're trying to counsel your child on what --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>JUTHANI: To do, there are ways to get through this still.</s>SCIUTTO: A dose or load makes a big difference in terms of how severe the cases are. We have a big holiday coming up, Thanksgiving of course, and the holidays looking back, Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, we saw it in the numbers. You saw an increase as people traveled more and met people more, et cetera. Understandably, folks want to see the people they love on Thanksgiving Day. Is there a safe way to do that? What do you recommend?</s>JUTHANI: This is going to be a choice for every individual family, and every family is going to have a different solution. Some guiding principles that I would say are that if you can drive to get to the place rather than using public transportation. If you are able to quarantine before seeing other relatives, potentially up for 14 days, now, that may be hard, but as long as you can. And then when you do get together, I still recommend wearing masks indoors. The other idea is that get together in the largest house possible that you can. Spread out, don't necessarily sit at one long dining table when you eat. Eating is the biggest risk time. That's when the masks come down, that's when people are laughing and talking and wanting to be near each other. We all --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>JUTHANI: Have a desire for that. We're all missing that a lot.</s>SCIUTTO: OK, let's move to the good news now. There is real progress on a vaccine, in fact, a number of options moving forward, possible approval before the end of the year. But as a practical matter for folks watching at home, when are they -- and you and I, most likely to have something like this wildly available?</s>JUTHANI: The vaccine, I think, as we've heard from Dr. Fauci and others in terms of wide availability likely this Spring, this Summer, you know, and getting into the Fall of 2021 is when we're looking at more normalcy there. But I think there are other signs of hope in addition to vaccine, Jim. I think what we have to remember is for any infectious disease, there is treatment and there is prevention. Prevention is what a vaccine is able to do for us. What we've seen so far is that we are getting better as doctors at treating COVID-19. We are reducing the number of people that die, and not just younger people, older people. We know that across the board, we are doing a better job, and we have new therapeutics that are also potentially around the corner. So it's a combination of therapeutics and vaccines, and all the hard work that the American people have done so far in keeping apart has bought us time. I want people to remember that buying us this time as healthcare providers has allowed us to make progress in terms of developing protocols in hospitals, how do we oxygenate people? Do we need to put everybody on a ventilator or maybe not? And we found that maybe not. And so there are ways that we can get around this with therapeutics not just vaccines, and people need to continue to help us buy time because healthcare --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>JUTHANI: Providers are getting tired, too. And so the more partnership we have with the American people, then healthcare providers and Americans together can beat this virus.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes, listen, it's good advice, it's good to know we're making progress, but don't let up, right, don't let up and not the last time --</s>JUTHANI: Not at all. We cannot let up at all. And I think that when I say -- when I give advice on how to potentially gather safely, you know, I think the rule of thumb is to still keep apart. I'm trying to give --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>JUTHANI: People some ways to do things with good guidance because --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>JUTHANI: Think, you know, any infectious disease, we know that there are ways to mitigate, to try to make it less likely that people are going to get infected, and this has been a long haul. You know, this --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>JUTHANI: Has been a long haul for people.</s>SCIUTTO: Now, we all can do our part. Dr. Manisha Juthani, thanks so much.</s>JUTHANI: Thank you for having me.</s>HARLOW: All right, well, we're just moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. investors so focused right now really is on Capitol Hill. Can house speaker and the Treasury Secretary reach a new stimulus deal? Her deadline came and went yesterday, but the two sides have not given up hope. Negotiations are set to resume this afternoon. We will speak with House Majority Whip James Clyburn about the possibility of a deal next.